Union Incompetence- ALPA

[AFIRS]

I would suggest to Union Members that view this site, to bring forth this issue to your Reps in a big way instead of just posting on Avcanada...GET INVOLVED!!! In the end a pilots Union survives on being united. As a Rep we look to our membership for direction. While we try and "prod" them in the right direction at times, in the end we must respond to the majority.

I'm sorry did you say "GET INVOLVED"????

Perhaps you should open up the- CONSTITUTION AND BY-LAWS of ALPA

Perhaps ALPA should GET INVOLVED? They have all of our money....

BTW- Thanks for trying to "prod" us in the right direction.. Sooo not only do I pay ALPA over 2000 dollars a year, I have to tell them to do their job.. Bloody sickening disgrace of a union.

[Johnny#5]

If you de-certify then sky regional would prob just pick them up as their union...i heard rumours they already tried.

[mbav8r]

22 April 2013

Fellow ALPA Pilots,
The issue of foreign pilots operating in Canada has been prominent in the news recently, prompting some questions about the Canada Board’s activities regarding this file.
Let me be clear: this is the top priority for ALPA’s Canada Board. We have been working this file since 2006, and in the past two years, the Canada Board has devoted considerable resources to it. Since 2011, we have had in excess of 50 meetings with government officials at both the political and bureaucratic levels of Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC), Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC), and Transport Canada.
We do not, and will not, lobby the Canadian Government in public forums as this would undermine the working relationship we have fostered with them over the years.
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/newsle ... 013-EN.htm

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Here are some of the problems. We are playing with words here. I almost fell for it myself until I read this more closely.

Regarding foreign pilots hired through reciprocal agreements, in the past CIC has not tracked the numbers of individuals in the program, making it difficult to establish reciprocity. Now, however, the department is counting pilots operating in Canada under these agreements.

Counting the number of foreign pilots in Canada under reciprocity has never been the problem. They know exactly how many work permits they provide to foreign pilots coming into Canada, and always have.
What they didn't count is the real number of Canadian pilots working overseas, in order to have Sunwing fulfill its side of the reciprocal bargain. CIC just took Sunwing's word for it. Has CIC assured ALPA that they will now monitor how many Canadian pilots Sunwing send to work for European airlines in Europe ? This is not what Adamus wrote in this memo.

ALPA has also received assurances from CIC that foreign pilots operating under wet lease agreements would not be counted toward reciprocity.

Another case of playing with words.

What we want from CIC is assurances that Canadian pilots operating under wet-lease agreements overseas would not count. This statement say the exact opposite.

Not counting foreign pilots who come to Canada under wt-leases just allows Sunwing to increase the number of foreign pilots they can bring into Canada.

Have we made progress at all ?

[photofly]

Let me be clear: this is the top priority for ALPA’s Canada Board. We have been working this file since 2006, and in the past two years, the Canada Board has devoted considerable resources to it. Since 2011, we have had in excess of 50 meetings with government officials at both the political and bureaucratic levels of Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC), Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC), and Transport Canada.

Goodness me. Top priority. Considerable resources. 50 meetings. And at both levels, even. I hope the catering was good.

[justwork]

Let me be clear: this is the top priority for ALPA’s Canada Board. We have been working this file since 2006, and in the past two years, the Canada Board has devoted considerable resources to it. Since 2011, we have had in excess of 50 meetings with government officials at both the political and bureaucratic levels of Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC), Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC), and Transport Canada.

Goodness me. Top priority. Considerable resources. 50 meetings. And at both levels, even. I hope the catering was good.

Catering and the hookers. Must be nice to be paid to get nothing done. Gilles been doing this on his own time, and in the few months he's been doing at it we've seen him in the national media. Keep up the fight Gilles.

[rudder]

What we want from CIC is assurances that Canadian pilots operating under wet-lease agreements overseas would not count. This statement say the exact opposite.

Not counting foreign pilots who come to Canada under wt-leases just allows Sunwing to increase the number of foreign pilots they can bring into Canada.

Have we made progress at all ?

Fair question.

So the clarity required from ALPA and perhaps more importantly from CIC/HRDC is:

- will the reciprocity provisions be enforced on a 1:1 basis with wet-lease pilots excluded and some way to measure the amount of work performed so that there is not a shortfall on the Canadian pilot side of the reciprocity equation?

- has any substantive progress been made on the use of 'permanent seasonal wet-leases' of foreign aircraft and crews in Canada when the intent of the rules that allow this practice is that the requirement is only 'temporary' in nature?

- how will the new "25%" arrangement apply to limiting TFWP permits?

The answer to these questions will determine if in fact any progress has been made. I presume that the hiring of permanent pilots at SW has been a prerequisite condition of the application(s) that they will be submitting under the TFWP for winter 2013-2014.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Diane Finfley, minister of HRSDC, the ones who issued 151 LMO this last winter to allow 151 foreign pilots into this country, quotes ALPA to defend herself on the House Floor

Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims (Newton—North Delta, NDP):
Mr. Speaker, while nearly 1.4 million Canadians are out of work, the Conservative government has persisted in bringing in more temporary foreign workers than any government before. Even Canadian pilots are not safe from losing their jobs to imported labour.
From September to October last year, HRSDC issued 119 positive labour market opinions, which led to the hiring of pilots from abroad, all while Canadian pilots had to go overseas to find work. How could the minister allow this to happen?
(1435)

[Table of Contents]
Hon. Diane Finley (Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, CPC):
Mr. Speaker, our goal is to ensure that Canadians always get first crack at every job. We are working with airline pilots and the airlines to ensure there are training opportunities so Canadians can get these jobs. In fact, the Air Line Pilots Association said:

ALPA has been working with your departments on several aspects of this issue as it relates to pilots. We are pleased with the progress that has been made.
[Table of Contents]
Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP):
Mr. Speaker, pilots want results and they do not have them.
[Translation]

The hypocrisy in this matter lies in the discrepancy between what the Conservatives say and what they do, or rather what they do not do.
They have managed this program so poorly that qualified professionals such as pilots are losing their jobs, while dozens of foreign pilots are being brought here to fly their planes.
How can they justify foreign pilots being hired by Canadian airlines while our pilots are forced to go abroad to find work?
[English]

[Table of Contents]
Hon. Diane Finley (Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, CPC):
As I indicated, Mr. Speaker, the airline pilots and the airlines are working with us to ensure that there are Canadians who have the skills for those jobs, but we are going beyond that. In budget 2013, we have introduced the Canada job grant that will help industry, the provinces and the federal government work together to ensure that Canadians get the skills for the jobs that employers need filled. I would expect that the NDP would support that effort. Unfortunately, it is not.

What progress had been made at HRSDC ? In the video that ALPA made recently, Adamus said that no progress had been made with HRSDC.

[rudder]

What progress had been made at HRSDC ? In the video that ALPA made recently, Adamus said that no progress had been made with HRSDC.

Gilles, my understanding is that the HRSDC 'progress' is the 25% ratio of incremental permanent Canadian pilots to HRSDC TFWP approvals measured on a per applicant carrier basis that was referred to in the ALPA update. I also understand that ALPA wanted a much higher ratio and has not stipulated that the 25% is acceptable. So it would appear that Minster Finley has her own interpretation as to what represents 'progress'. I would suggest that for some reason SW appears to be having some success on its own side of the lobbying initiative, perhaps even more than ALPA. I would be interested to hear how NACC would assess the the Minister's assessment of the 'progress' that has been made on this matter. ALPA is not the only group trying to get the ear of the Government on this matter.

[BE20 Driver]

Gilles - when did Ms. Sims speak about this?

I don't believe that we, as pilots, will qualify for the training announced in the budget. Only chronic EI users will be able to apply for the grant. Therefore if you're leaving a 704 company to go to an airline, sorry no funding.

[Takeoff OK]

To all ALPA members, regardless of MEC:

It is time for Dan Adamus to step down. He can do it by choice, or we can make him do it. This is how (Dan, I know you will eventually read this, so take it as a wake-up call.):

From the ALPA Constitution:

ARTICLE XVI - RECALL OF OFFICERS
SECTION 1 - RECALL OF OFFICERS
A. Any officer of the Association, either with or without cause, may be recalled or removed from
office by action of the Board of Directors.
(1) For the purpose of recall, Directors representing seventy-five percent (75%) of the members in
good standing shall constitute a quorum.
(2) Recall shall require the affirmative vote of Directors representing a majority of the members in
good standing who are represented by the Directors voting.
(3) Such recalled officer, upon recall, shall be divested immediately of all authority, prestige,
rights and responsibilities pertaining to his office.
B. Recall of any officer of the Association may also be accomplished in the following manner:
(1) If twenty-five percent (25%) of the Active members in good standing petition the Vice
President-Administration/Secretary requesting a recall of any of said officers, it shall be the duty of
the Vice President-Administration/Secretary to circulate such a recall ballot to all Active members.
If the Vice President-Administration/Secretary is the officer whose recall is being requested, it shall
be the duty of the President to circulate such a recall ballot. Such ballots shall be returnable to the
Election and Ballot Certification Board, and a reasonable deadline date shall be specified thereon.
Recall shall require a two-thirds (2/3) vote of all Active members in good standing voting in such
recall election. The Election and Ballot Certification Board shall certify the results of such recall
election to the officers, the Board of Directors, and the membership. When such recall is
accomplished, such recalled officer shall immediately be divested of all authority, prestige, and
rights commensurate with his office.

Sorry Dan, but you don't get that cushy paycheck without results. Ciao.

[newcomer]

I'm not a union member,but I sincerely hope that you'll be able to remove that useless guy from his office.

[Takeoff OK]

I'm not a union member,but I sincerely hope that you'll be able to remove that useless guy from his office.

Newcomer; If you are actually relatively new to this game, as your name suggests, you should definitely be concerned with what is going on right now. It directly affects your future, and all of those around you. We will get this done, provided you and your contemporaries remain vocal.

Cheers,

TO

[Takeoff OK]

By the way, ACPA's senior leadership has been equally publicly silent on this issue. I guess we'll leave it to you AC peeps to kick their asses. And well you should. God knows Harper and Co. have royally f*cked you over the last year. Stand up and be counted, because your future is just as threatened as anyone else's in this game.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles - when did Ms. Sims speak about this?

I don't believe that we, as pilots, will qualify for the training announced in the budget. Only chronic EI users will be able to apply for the grant. Therefore if you're leaving a 704 company to go to an airline, sorry no funding.

This was from the April 18 2013 Hansard

[rudder]

So the clarity required from ALPA and perhaps more importantly from CIC/HRDC is:

- will the reciprocity provisions be enforced on a 1:1 basis with wet-lease pilots excluded and some way to measure the amount of work performed so that there is not a shortfall on the Canadian pilot side of the reciprocity equation?

- has any substantive progress been made on the use of 'permanent seasonal wet-leases' of foreign aircraft and crews in Canada when the intent of the rules that allow this practice is that the requirement is only 'temporary' in nature?

- how will the new "25%" arrangement apply to limiting TFWP permits?

The answer to these questions will determine if in fact any progress has been made. I presume that the hiring of permanent pilots at SW has been a prerequisite condition of the application(s) that they will be submitting under the TFWP for winter 2013-2014.

Well, looks like we can start answering some of these questions.

Reciprocity - SW is not sending any pilots to Europe this summer under any arrangement other than wet-lease (according to poster ea306). I am not aware that CJ has ever sent a single pilot to Europe under reciprocity. Therefore, it would appear that no carrier will be making an application under these provisions.

Wet Lease - the ALPA bulletin seems to suggest that the terms of wet lease approvals are still under review by TC (which likely means status quo for the upcoming season). And while no credit will be given for wet lease pilots towards reciprocity calculations, it would appear that for the upcoming winter season wet lease approvals will remain effectively unlimited. And if at any point in the future TC decides that here needs to be some 'balance' imposed, SW can argue that its wet lease deployments are tangible. Not sure what WJ would do if the TC seasonal wet leases come under scrutiny.

TFWP/FLVC - HRSDC has created its own 'new rule' requiring that 1 permanent pilot be added at a carrier for each 3 foreign pilots that can be approved under TFWP applications (the new '25%' rule). So, one can reasonably presume that SW will represent that between 45-65 permanent pilots have been added to their seniority list allowing them up to 135-195 TFWP pilots for winter 2013-2014. As for CJ, they may have a serious problem as it is unclear if they have been able to sustainably increase the permanent pilot roster (many resignations) which would seem to be the only path to TFWP approvals going forward. However, they would only need to credibly represent that they had added 15 full-time pilots to now qualify for up to 45 TFWP approvals. And it would further appear that TC will take no immediate action on reviewing the FLVC criteria. One can presume that, other than wet-leases from Europe, SW would prefer to place as many aircraft as possible under C-reg and have the largest pool of pilots possible legal to operate them. CJ definitely needs relief under FLVC as all of the CJ fleet will be C-reg.

Is that progress? Depends on who you ask. It will be interesting to see what model Groupe Transat builds based on these parameters.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Thé problem with the "progress" that has been made is that CIC, HRSDC and the CTA will each look at their respective applications in a vaccum and will not take into consideration the foreign pilots that are allowed into Canada under the other two programs.

To make matters worse we have a civil aviation which thinks it is subserviant to CIC and HRSDC to the point of bending and violating Canadian Aviation Regulations in order to accommodate the programs these departments administer.

I predict more foreign pilots in 2013-2014 than during the previous year when pilots allowed into Canada by all three schemes will be added up.

Last year the CTA approved 7 wet leases for Sun wing (roughly 100 pilots)
CIC approved 96 reciprocal work permits to for Sun wing
HRSDC approved 151 LMOs for Canjet and Sunwing.
Transport Canada issued 139 FLVCs for foreign pilots for Canjet and Sunwing.

And they do not coordinate with each other and as long as this continues we the Canadian pilots are going to continue paying the price.

[rudder]

I predict more foreign pilots in 2013-2014 than during the previous year when pilots allowed into Canada by all three schemes will be added up.

If that prediction proves to be true, then it was not progress it was a failure. For example, why does SW-CAW allow any pilots under TFWP to fill a Captain seat, particularly now that the permanent SW staffing is over 200 pilots? What are they getting in return? Nothing. I can understand wet lease Captaincies (aircraft plus complete crew), but even CJ did not use TFWP Captains.

The simple reality is that this segment of the market in Canada is not growing, it is simply being redistributed. That means for every gain in market share at one company there will be a corresponding loss at another. It is in fact a zero sum game. The coordinated administration of the 3 programs by the Government and its agencies should produce as a desired result an increase in permanent Canadian pilot jobs and a reduction in the subcontracting of foreign pilots by Canadian companies.

[teacher]

I would just like to make a few points.

1) I had the opportunity to talk to Dan Adamus of ALPA Canada recently. When asked why they are not in the news making the issue more well known he said this. They have been working on this behind the scenes for YEARS. Progress on this issue will not happen by embarrassing the government on TV. Yes, they have had 50 meetings with various departments and ministers but that is how change is done. Embarrass the Harper government and criticize them on national television and the doors are closed, done, finished and no more talking which means no progress and no changes.

2) millions of flights have been taken by Canadians from the US. That is also the use of foriegn pilots. Consumers care about cost, not jobs.

3) Playing the safety card is a red herring and everyone knows it. We're not getting incompetent pilots from 3rd world countries. As much as i've loved the youtube videos of bush pilots up north doing what Canadian pilots do this is a jobs issue, not a safety one. It's twisting reality to make our point.

I walked away from the discussion with a better understanding of the methods being used and why. Are things happening slowly? Yes. But that's government for you. Now, my 2 cents:

1) There are over 300,000 foriegn workers in Canada. Just over 200 are pilots. You guys get where I going with this? Do you really think it's a priority for these departments?

2) Has anyone who marched on parliament hill demanding to be heard ever been heard with this government? Do protestors get their 10 minutes with the PMO? Not these days. Do I agree with it? Of course not but it is the way things are run these days so you have to play the game or lose before you ever started.

Gilles, I support your fight, I do. However, how many meetings with the labour and industry minister have you had? You have done a great job bringing us all up to speed on this is issue. I will 100% agree that you've been way more informative than ALPA BUT ALPAs updates have all been internal for the reasons stated above. They don't want to be heard by the public, they want to be heard by those that can affect change and actually change the legislation and the rules. The best way is quietly without making a scene. If that's the way they know is best than so be it.

I will continue to support the fight against this misuse of foriegn aircrew in Canada but I will do it knowing that behind the scenes ALPA IS ACTUALLY working on the matter quietly to make changes, even of they don't do it in the public eye.

[newcomer]

...

[teacher]

The company relented BUT did the law change? I'm no fan of the slow pace of change either but do you punch the guy in the face that you're trying to negotiate with? They don't have to change the laws to benefit us. They could argue that the savings to Canadians due to lower air fares justifies the current practices. Just ask those gunning for a complete open skies for all Canadian airspace. Some want the term cabotage to be a thing of the past.

Yes the pace is slow but for the meantime I am content to know that things are happening behind the scenes and change is happening albeit to slow for all our liking.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Look at this "Call of action" ALPA has sent to all members on Dec 14 2011, after ALPA had been quietly negotiating behind the scenes with government officials for 5 years.

Now, we are calling on you to join us as advocates for Canadian professional pilots. Please write to your MP and urge him/her to raise the matter of foreign pilots in the House of Commons with the minister for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC).

That year, most of the foreign pilots came in through CIC's reciprocal program, about 180 of them. About 35 came in through HRSDC's TFWP.

There were asking us to bark up the wrong tree.

[rudder]

Look at this "Call of action" ALPA has sent to all members on Dec 14 2011, after ALPA had been quietly negotiating behind the scenes with government officials for 5 years.

Now, we are calling on you to join us as advocates for Canadian professional pilots. Please write to your MP and urge him/her to raise the matter of foreign pilots in the House of Commons with the minister for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC).

That year, most of the foreign pilots came in through CIC's reciprocal program, about 180 of them. About 35 came in through HRSDC's TFWP.

There were asking us to bark up the wrong tree.

Gilles,

If the ALPA update on the application of reciprocity is accurate, and it is also true that the number of SW/CJ pilots going to Europe this sumer on a non-wet lease basis is ZERO, and wet lease pilots do NOT count towards the head count for reciprocity, then the number of foreign pilots that should receive approval under the CIC reciprocal program this winter will be ZERO.

Now, if TC and the CTA and CIC and HRSDC want to start to talk about reciprocity for wet lease purposes only, then that is a different story and that would be a new benchmark that does not currently exist. The comparisons must all be apples to apples. And in that regard I hope that the facts are measured and not just the rhetoric. There are certain corporate parties that use the word 'reciprocal' in a fashion that is not even remotely close to being accurate. For example, if all 200 SW pilots participate to varying degrees in the wet lease assignments covering 7 SW aircraft in Europe this summer, then there is no credible claim to be made under the CIC reciprocal program. The only avenues available for foreign pilots would be via TFWP or straight wet leases.

When is the application deadline for companies seeking TFWP pilots for the upcoming winter season?

[Takeoff OK]

Forgive my ignorance, but could somebody please enlighten me as to any policy changes ALPA Canada has actually achieved -- on any issue, at any time in their history -- with their respectful dealings with the federal government? I'm sure there must be some examples, I just can't think of any. The RAIC program, maybe?

[slowstream]

Its just my opinion I know, but it seems to me that saying we've been working behind the scene in closed door meetings is a viable excuse to hide the truth.

I've known people who truly believe and practise this approach of using honey to bring the powers to be on side and yes that certainly can work for many situations but is it the best practise for this situation?

Personally, I would say loudly........... NO!

Its loud noise, constant bombardment of writing, phoning and media attention that will expose the how wrong this practise is and its public shame thrown at our current Government that will cause this policy to change, not secret behind closed door meetings and dinners with a bunch of good old boys.

Sadly, on the flip side I think it will take a miracle to get the media attention and fortitude to stay with this issue/story.