Pet Peeves

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Edo
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Edo »

Maybe its been mentioned here but mine is

ATC: Squawk ident

Any verbal response annoys the crap out of me usually you hear:

A/c: squawking ident.....annoying yes, but the worst is "roger here's the flash"
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AirFrame
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by AirFrame »

Schooner69A wrote:We have a flying club out here that appears to have inflicted their students with the nauseating "Conflicting aircraft please advise" bit of unnecessary R/T.
They may have even infected them with that phrase. Or maybe i'm making a "mute" point (and before anyone says it... MOOT point).

I was infected with ACTPA disease too, and have only in the last few years been able to shake it. Every time I fly through the local practise area (which is the direct route in/out of my local airport), I give a radio call and let people know where I am and where i'm going. It takes a lot of concentration to cut myself off before "any conflicting traffic please advise". Instead, I use the same amount of time to scan my flight path for traffic. It's more reliable than students trying to tell me where they are anyway.
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omgwereallgoingtodie
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by omgwereallgoingtodie »

maybe people say it because they think that traffic actually need a reminder to "advise"
couple of weeks ago out practicing stalls and slow flight , making position calls as needed ( and yes the any conflicting please advise drives me nuts as well) only to be buzzed by a low wing plane (didn't have time to see what type it was) , at the same altitude crossing from right to left about 2 seconds away from a crash in front of me.

I have no idea where they came from and they sure as hell weren't making any position calls , or responding to mine.

Yes I know that it's my job to look out for traffic , but I'd been nose up in slow flight for a short while and the frequency was dead empty. If I'd known they were out there I would have been looking just that little bit harder
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Yes I know that it's my job to look out for traffic
Yes!! Yes!!
but I'd been nose up in slow flight for a short while and the frequency was dead empty
(keening noise escaping quietly)
If I'd known they were out there I would have been looking just that little bit harder
My mother once taught me that if I didn't have anything nice
to say, don't say anything at all. Another lesson from my
childhood that never took.

Anyone that relies upon a VHF comm for separation (in class G
airspace, no less!) is roadkill.

It drives me nuts when PPL's stop flying the airplane to listen
and talk on the radio. I like to turn the comm off at that point -
they are amazed that an airplane will fly without continual
chatter on the comm.

On a long trip with a new PPL a while back, he was outraged
when at two different towered airports, other pilots tried to
kill us when we were doing what we were told to, and I had
to take evasive action. Great fun. He was terribly shaken -
he was certain the authoritative voice on the ground
guaranteed his safety.

I have no printable response to such an insane idea, which
is accepted as gospel by 99.999% of PPL's and low-time
CPL's.
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FenderManDan
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by FenderManDan »

Same thing is in the terminal control and the VFR flight following. Look outside and don't rely on the controller's radar. I don't have many flying hours, but I can tell you that there are many cases when the controller did not see and warn me about the "target".

I am used to ignoring the "winded blah blah" on the COM. My pet peeve is still a wing tip strobes on when on the apron.
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armchair
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by armchair »

Colonel Sanders wrote:
If I'd known they were out there I would have been looking just that little bit harder
My mother once taught me that if I didn't have anything nice
to say, don't say anything at all. Another lesson from my
childhood that never took.

Anyone that relies upon a VHF comm for separation (in class G
airspace, no less!) is roadkill.

It drives me nuts when PPL's stop flying the airplane to listen
and talk on the radio. I like to turn the comm off at that point -
they are amazed that an airplane will fly without continual
chatter on the comm.

On a long trip with a new PPL a while back, he was outraged
when at two different towered airports, other pilots tried to
kill us when we were doing what we were told to, and I had
to take evasive action. Great fun. He was terribly shaken -
he was certain the authoritative voice on the ground
guaranteed his safety.

I have no printable response to such an insane idea, which
is accepted as gospel by 99.999% of PPL's and low-time
CPL's.
I think what OMG was trying to say is that once alerted of the presence of an aircraft is a certain area, you are more inclined to actually look for that particular traffic. This is a proven concept of see and be seen and cannot be a bad thing, and it works. But granted, I agree we should spend more time looking out for our own separation than constantly chatting away. A couple times I did not announce my position and wished later that perhaps I shouda done it. Felt a little bit like an ass for not doing it too. I assume the feeling was mutual in the other pilot's mind as he or she settled in freshly-soiled underwear towards the next waypoint.
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omgwereallgoingtodie
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by omgwereallgoingtodie »

probably not expressing myself particularly well here

my point is

I'm in airspace that it designated as a local practice area for a handful of local flight schools
it has its own designated frwquency as aopposed to 126.7
there are often a number of students practicing airwork
generally you talk to each other to " actively deconflict" and thus avoid stalling or PFLing into each other
you use the radio to figure out where traffic is, again to avoid doing your airwork into them
traffic passing through often ignores the area frequency and blunders through.

yes of course you look out but near misses happen and perhaps wouldn't if you knew a plane was going to be transiting your area , you wouldn't start doing slow flight for example until you were sure they had passed you.

Of course I was in the wrong for allowing another plane to get so close without spotting it. it has shaken me up just enough that my lookout skills are my top priority to sharpen up ( that's what being a student is about right?)

Incidentally this area is not class G airspace. Many people assume it is , but it isnt.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by CpnCrunch »

The problem is that the frequencies for the practice areas aren't listed on the charts. I just checked my Calgary VNC and VTA to make sure I'm not being an idiot, and I can confirm that nowhere is the frequency listed for the Arkayla Springs practice area. I also just had a look in the CFS and I can't see an info there either. The only place I've ever seen that frequency is on the noticeboard of the CFC.

My guess is that these frequencies are unofficial things dreamed up by local flying clubs. I tend to avoid practice areas even if I am doing upper air work - generally there are other, less crowded bits of uncontrolled airspace that you can use instead. Of course if you're flying from the likes of YBW you don't really have too much choice.
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omgwereallgoingtodie
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by omgwereallgoingtodie »

Absolutely not.
the frequency is listed very very clearly on the VTA

this is an official frequency covering the area. Not something local flying clubs dreamt up.
hence the reason ALL traffic should be at least montioring it
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by CpnCrunch »

Where exactly on the VTA are they listed? They seem to be very well hidden...
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omgwereallgoingtodie
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by omgwereallgoingtodie »

don't have my VTA at work but to the best of my recollection the entire back section of it is a schematic of the entire area divided up into segments showing the area specific frequencies for the entire area covered by the chart as it isn't the standard 126.7

To the best of my recolllection it would be in about 26 point font.

if anyone has a Toronto VTA handy they can confirm otherwise I'll post a picture when I get home
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by CpnCrunch »

The back of the Calgary VTA is the Edmonton VTA :)

Maybe for Toronto they list the practice frequencies, but they don't seem to do it for Calgary (unless I've missed something, which is certainly possible).
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omgwereallgoingtodie
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by omgwereallgoingtodie »

I think I'm being misleading , it isn't a practice area frequency ( I'm showing my studentness here , I'm missing the correct phraseology, maybe someone can help!)

this is a common frequency for a large area, of which some of this space is used by the local flight schools as their practice area.

The VTA clearly shows that this is the correct freuency to be on in the area, but many people don't seem to bother.
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Rookie50
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Rookie50 »

CpnCrunch wrote:The problem is that the frequencies for the practice areas aren't listed on the charts. I just checked my Calgary VNC and VTA to make sure I'm not being an idiot, and I can confirm that nowhere is the frequency listed for the Arkayla Springs practice area. I also just had a look in the CFS and I can't see an info there either. The only place I've ever seen that frequency is on the noticeboard of the CFC.

My guess is that these frequencies are unofficial things dreamed up by local flying clubs. I tend to avoid practice areas even if I am doing upper air work - generally there are other, less crowded bits of uncontrolled airspace that you can use instead. Of course if you're flying from the likes of YBW you don't really have too much choice.
Check Toronto's VTA. 3 Specific CAF's clearly marked. On the back, split up by areas.

The answer to me is both -- never ever let your guard down, per CS -- especially at low level in a practice area or near any airport -- and announce yourself, also especially in a practice area or near an airport, especially on a nice day! Briefly. As in -- "Wherever area traffic, Cessna 172, over sumspot lake, 4500, airwork". Thats it.

For long long trips there is something to be said for filing IFR at 8000'....less chance of random conflicts.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by CpnCrunch »

Ok, I think you're talking about the Common Frequency Areas. It looks like they've just split up the airspace around Toronto and instead of calling on 126.7 you're meant to use one of 3 different frequencies. I think that's just something they have in Toronto - I haven't seen that anywhere else.

A "practice area" that I'm talking about is a CYA(T) shaded area on the chart. I think they may be marked differently on the Toronto VNC.
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Boratt
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Boratt »

Pet Peeves:

1) When people transmit circuit intentions on 6.7 in a 2.8 ATF or MF. (look at your CFS Bruce)

2) When I'm on the ground and I give a pre take-off call specifying I'll be climbing to 3000 feet and some guy, 4000 feet above me says, "FABC 7000 feet above the field, north bound, no conflict".................

Save your breath, mate.
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Ok, I couldn't help but notice the other day flying near Moose Jaw that everyone identifying themselves as flying a Harvard were also all ending their calls with "any conflicting traffic please advise". Is this perhaps a major source of this contamination of the frequencies? Are their military instructors passing this on to their students? As a tax payer I demand it stop!
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Rookie50 »

Boratt wrote:Pet Peeves:

1) When people transmit circuit intentions on 6.7 in a 2.8 ATF or MF. (look at your CFS Bruce)

2) When I'm on the ground and I give a pre take-off call specifying I'll be climbing to 3000 feet and some guy, 4000 feet above me says, "FABC 7000 feet above the field, north bound, no conflict".................

Save your breath, mate.
Maybe he thinks you have afterburners.....
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Boratt
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Boratt »

I wish, Rookie! :prayer:
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iflyforpie
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by iflyforpie »

Shiny Side Up wrote:As a tax payer I demand it stop!
See if you can figure out how many dollars a syllable it is... :dollar:

All of their King Airs (call sign Mustang) do the same thing going into Cranbrook.
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Hmmm, interesting thought. How much fuel does a harvard 2 burn per hour? Everytime "ACTPA" is said on the radio by a trainee, that's airplane time wasted that could be doing something useful. Say it takes three extra seconds to say, but it gets said (in my time near by MJ it was used at least a dozen times by the trainees over the hour) many times per day, we probably end up with several wasted training minutes per day, per student, which add up to several hours of wasted training time per year.

Frig, if we can stop them from doing that we might be able to scrape together more money for more airplanes!
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Lurch
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Lurch »

CpnCrunch wrote:Where exactly on the VTA are they listed? They seem to be very well hidden...
Try the AIM under COMs, you'll find it listed under the Air to Air freq :wink:
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Lurch
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Lurch »

I love how people seem to think they can block a huge section of airspace because "we are already established" I almost take great pleasure in just saying "Ok I'll keep an eye out". Boy does it freak them out.

I remember an instructor almost irate because I happened to be in the same 100sq miles of airspace he was already in.
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Alberta_Canada
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Alberta_Canada »

Good to know about the "any conflicting traffic" dialogue. I have always been taught to use this, and was taught by multiple instructors to boot.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Pet Peeves

Post by Colonel Sanders »

You have been taught many bad things by
your instructors. This is probably the most
minor.

Just because a crowd of people chant "2+2=5"
doesn't make it true.
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