Transwest Ramp vs Perimeter Ramp

[SirCanadianBacon]

Hi everyone, I was hoping to get a bit of advice. I'm a fresh pilot with a Group 1 IFR rating, approx 250 hours and an IATRA. Right now I am considering whether I want to go to Transwest Air or Perimeter Aviation for their ramp positions.

I've searched the forum in regards to both companies and have read a lot about each one (unfortunately, some of the information may be incorrect or outdated). The wait times at Transwest currently seem to be about 1 year, and at Perimeter about 1-2 years. Neither of these seem to be career airlines, so my objective is to put in my time in order to move on to other things in the future. As such, the opportunity to get lots of flying hours and Multi-PIC is important to me. I have heard that Transwest pilots only get about 300 hours a year. Is this true? So while the wait times at Perimeter might be longer, I could make up for it by flying more hours a year. Obviously, working conditions and pay are still important to me and will factor into my decision.

I am still unsure about which I would want to work for. What would you guys do in my situation? Which do you think is the better company to work for? Which company would be better for advancing my career.

Thanks a lot in advance for all those that reply!

[Tail-Chaser]

I'd vote Perimeter. They actually give you seniority number. I've heard stories of guys working a long period at Transwest and not going anywhere. At least with a seniority system you know where you stand.

Depends where they want you too, I'd rather take Perimeter and hoof it in Winnipeg for a year or two.

[FOD_Vacuum]

Perimeter is the better bet for career advancement. Not only do you get to build your time in a bigger city, but also get upgraded to left seat pretty fast. There is also the bag run on the smaller pistons you can bid on. With all the Dash 8s they have ordered, things are looking good for them. The wait time was something along 1-3 years (tops) depending on when you decide to do your sim eval for when your number comes up. If you fit in, do your job well, you can expect to be capt within 3-4 years after initial hire for the ramp (or other positions within company). Its scheduled 703, 704 & 705 time, with the odd charter in there somewhere, so accumulating flight time is steady. It is part of the EIC and you get flight passes once your FO .
Cant say much about Transwest. You live up north, and slug bags for a while, and eventually end up on their twotter (float rating may help out), Ho or right seat in one of the turbines. All you can really do is work, go fishing and drink on your days off. Not for everyone, especially if you are coming from the city. FOD.

[SirCanadianBacon]

Thanks for the replies! For reference, the position at Perimeter is in Thompson, Manitoba. I was offered the position and will likely start in 1-3 months (or whenever an opening comes up). For Transwest, it could be at any of their bases in Saskatchewan such as La Ronge, Prince Albert, Saskatoon etc. I haven't been offered a position but I have been invited to their annual ground school.

[Tail-Chaser]

From what I've heard from buddies, if you go to the ground school you've basically got a job.

[goingnowherefast]

I vote for Perimeter as well. Sure they might have a longer ramp wait, but once you are flying, there's more flying and the company is more stable as well. They also seem to take training and safety more seriously.

[Rowdy]

I'm another vote for the big green manitoban machine.

[Illya Kuryakin]

It's really come to this hasn't it?
Used to be, who's the best operation to fly for?
Now it's, who's the best operation to ramp for?
I guess you just can't fight progress.....
Illya

[North Shore]

All you can do on your days off is fish and drink

.

Sounds like paradise for some people! I'm not putting my oar in for Transwest, necessarily, but don't be so fast to write off the north. There's a lot of fun to be had flying bush planes that you can't necessarily do while flying skeds.
I guess it all depends what your goals are; remember though, that the journey is equally as important as the destination...

[SirCanadianBacon]

Thanks for all the advice! I was leaning towards going to Perimeter in the first place but I wanted to see what everyone else thought. At the same time, if there is anyone out there that thinks Transwest is the better company I really would want to hear from you too, just so I can get all the information possible. Also, if anyone else has anything more to say about Perimeter I would really like to hear from you as well. Thanks again!

[+RA]

Hi SirCanadianBacon,

Having previously worked at Perimeter on the ramp in YWG, I can say that it's a great place to start and there's certainly a lot of flying going around, especially during the busy seasons. The guys working the ramp, at least in YWG, were all top notch. You'll be worked hard during the busy seasons, but from what I understand, it does slow down quite a bit otherwise.

The wait time while I was there was roughly 1.25-2 years. As mentioned by another poster, your invitation to a sim evaluation is based on date of hire; therefore, just keep your head down and work hard, and your number will come up. Passing the sim eval is an entirely different ball game though.

[darshanpatelh]

Can you send me some details about your sim evaluation. I got a call from HR and they called me for an interview in Winnipeg next week.

Hi SirCanadianBacon,

Having previously worked at Perimeter on the ramp in YWG, I can say that it's a great place to start and there's certainly a lot of flying going around, especially during the busy seasons. The guys working the ramp, at least in YWG, were all top notch. You'll be worked hard during the busy seasons, but from what I understand, it does slow down quite a bit otherwise.

The wait time while I was there was roughly 1.25-2 years. As mentioned by another poster, your invitation to a sim evaluation is based on date of hire; therefore, just keep your head down and work hard, and your number will come up. Passing the sim eval is an entirely different ball game though.

[wirez]

Can you send me some details about your sim evaluation. I got a call from HR and they called me for an interview in Winnipeg next week.

Theres no real script for the sim eval. It can really be anything from air work to IFR procedures. But they do some unique tricks in the sim to make it difficult. You're better off asking your co-workers once you actually get hired.

[darshanpatelh]

Thank you for the info. I hope I land this one. We will see from there.

Can you send me some details about your sim evaluation. I got a call from HR and they called me for an interview in Winnipeg next week.

Theres no real script for the sim eval. It can really be anything from air work to IFR procedures. But they do some unique tricks in the sim to make it difficult. You're better off asking your co-workers once you actually get hired.

[Diadem]

It's really come to this hasn't it?
Used to be, who's the best operation to fly for?
Now it's, who's the best operation to ramp for?
I guess you just can't fight progress.....
Illya

Ilya, if you don't have a solution to the problem, then keep it to yourself. Unless you're willing to start an operation with the sole purpose of getting low-timers experience without working the ramp, or to petition the government to restrict the number of CPLs which are issued each year, then you're not helping the situation. Your generation helped to create the current situation, and all you do is berate the people who now have to deal with that situation. Having to work the ramp is symptomatic of a larger issue, and treating the symptoms of a disease does nothing; you don't treat cancer with Tylenol. Either come up with a solution to the problem, or stop haranguing guys who have no other option than to work the ramp.

[Illya Kuryakin]

It's really come to this hasn't it?
Used to be, who's the best operation to fly for?
Now it's, who's the best operation to ramp for?
I guess you just can't fight progress.....
Illya

Ilya, if you don't have a solution to the problem, then keep it to yourself. Unless you're willing to start an operation with the sole purpose of getting low-timers experience without working the ramp, or to petition the government to restrict the number of CPLs which are issued each year, then you're not helping the situation. Your generation helped to create the current situation, and all you do is berate the people who now have to deal with that situation. Having to work the ramp is symptomatic of a larger issue, and treating the symptoms of a disease does nothing; you don't treat cancer with Tylenol. Either come up with a solution to the problem, or stop haranguing guys who have no other option than to work the ramp.

I consider this a personal attack. My comments in no way have anything to do with you, however you continue to belittle my opinions, and points of view. Try adding a suggestion to the original poster.
Illya

[Diadem]

I consider this a personal attack. My comments in no way have anything to do with you, however you continue to belittle my opinions, and points of view. Try adding a suggestion to the original poster.
Illya

What suggestion did you provide to the original poster? Just about every thread in the employment forum has comments from you belittling low-timers and anyone who's worked the ramp without providing anything constructive. It's grossly hypocritical of you to complain about me belittling you when you've told others to "grow a pair" and that I'm "willing to be used" simply because we chose different career paths from you; you're not helping the original poster anymore than I am, so if you want me to butt out then you should too.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Hey Diadem....news flash: I don't care. Enjoy your cheese with that whine...
Illya

[Duffman]

I consider this a personal attack. My comments in no way have anything to do with you, however you continue to belittle my opinions, and points of view. Try adding a suggestion to the original poster.
Illya

What suggestion did you provide to the original poster? Just about every thread in the employment forum has comments from you belittling low-timers and anyone who's worked the ramp without providing anything constructive. It's grossly hypocritical of you to complain about me belittling you when you've told others to "grow a pair" and that I'm "willing to be used" simply because we chose different career paths from you; you're not helping the original poster anymore than I am, so if you want me to butt out then you should too.

Illya is just a troll. Don't worry about it. He will get tired of it eventually and just go away.

[Krimson]

Illya is just a troll. Don't worry about it. He will get tired of it eventually and just go away.

Exactly. I am pretty tired of reading his comments which seem to just complain and try to start arguments. Unfortunately it comes with the medium.

[imac0960]

Every job is different to everyone else. Much like buying a car. If two people buy the car for the same price one might feel ripped off and the other thinks it's the steal of the century. Working the ramp is the same. Some will love it and others will hate it. Working the ramp is an entry level job. Sure it sucks that you won't be flying right away but it gives you an opportunity that you might not get otherwise.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Hi everyone, I was hoping to get a bit of advice. I'm a fresh pilot with a Group 1 IFR rating, approx 250 hours and an IATRA. Right now I am considering whether I want to go to Transwest Air or Perimeter Aviation for their ramp positions.

Thanks a lot in advance for all those that reply!

Or
You could talk to a couple of flying schools about getting your class IV instructor rating.
You're already into this to the tune of 30K, or more. Relatively speaking, the instructor rating makes a lot do sense. Personally, I'd have done this instead of the MEIFR rating, but that will never hurt you. With the class IV, you are very likely to find employment, and start logging PIC right away. Probably to the tune of 700-800 hours a year. Two years on the ramp, you'll have 250 hours, and an expired MEIFR, which will cost many $$$ to renew. Two years instructing (with your MEIFR) equals an ATPL! This means you will meet CONTRAILS requirements for an FO job on a turbine! It's your money, and your career, but the last three pilots we hired were ex instructors with 900-1500 hours. One of which is with Cathay Pacific, after three years with us!
Take my word on this. It IS a better idea than a ramp job anywhere!
I'm taking big hits here because I don't believe in pilots working ramps, but really, do you?
After well over twenty thousand (accident free) hours, including flight instructing for a couple of years, living out of a suitcase for a year (hated it) because I "thought" a 737 gig was worth it, to many years up north, to a basic 3 day a week retirement gig.....I firmly believe a pilot should fly. Do it.
If you want, PM me. I'll steer you in the right direction.
Illya

[BTyyj]

Illya, I interpreted Diadem's post as a means to point out the other side of the argument, rather than a personal attack.

To preface, the rest of my post isn't aimed directly Illya; simply everyone with similar mindsets.

Unfortunately, our generation (the younger generation) was raised into a system where direct entry flying jobs are few and far between, with the exception of instructing of course, and where working entry-level none flying positions is otherwise the reality.

The system forced upon us isn't one wished for or asked for, and it certainly isn't one of our own design or cause. We have little to do with the issues surrounding aviation. I personally find it comically ironic when the older generation places blame on those just entering the industry, when they themselves are the ones in control. I guess shit really does roll down hill.

There is a simple solution to these issues, one many other professions have taken advantage of. Simply looking at the commonality between other high paying profession will yield that product. I guarantee higher pay is in no way a function of the newer generation's initiative, rather measures taken by previous generations to ensure favourable economic demand down the road.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I see several causes here.
Too many pilots knowingly (or not) coming out of puppy mills
Jobs just aren't there....lack of research before signing up for training. Jobs are pretty scarce in several sectors of the work force right now. Lots of BAs waiting on tables and serving beer.
Pilots are retiring later than ever before. Economics requires this. Operators are using pilots. Don't blame the older generation of pilots. We don't want this any more than you do.
The answer is turn off the pilot flow from the schools. Obviously, you're just not needed. I've been asked by young folks if being a pilot is a good idea. Nope. Not right now. Great hobby though! Glad I'm on the other end. I've just seen so many really nice kids get screwed in this industry. The screwing starts in flight school.
Illya

[CanadianEh]

I see several causes here.
Too many pilots knowingly (or not) coming out of puppy mills
Jobs just aren't there....lack of research before signing up for training. Jobs are pretty scarce in several sectors of the work force right now. Lots of BAs waiting on tables and serving beer.
Pilots are retiring later than ever before. Economics requires this. Operators are using pilots. Don't blame the older generation of pilots. We don't want this any more than you do.
The answer is turn off the pilot flow from the schools. Obviously, you're just not needed. I've been asked by young folks if being a pilot is a good idea. Nope. Not right now. Great hobby though! Glad I'm on the other end. I've just seen so many really nice kids get screwed in this industry. The screwing starts in flight school.
Illya

I agree with this statement.