Normal or Utility Category

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b0xoffice
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Re: Normal or Utility Category

Post by b0xoffice »

We had a similar thing happen at my flight school when we acquired an aircraft that hadn't been used commercially before. It was a 172M and the CoA read just "Normal". We limited that aircraft from spinning to be safe until a new CoA arrived that read "Normal/Utility", like the other two M's in our fleet. I'm not sure if this was a cover-our-ass-just-in-case move or if the legality was researched. I'll ask around..
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chephy
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Re: Normal or Utility Category

Post by chephy »

b0xoffice wrote:We had a similar thing happen at my flight school when we acquired an aircraft that hadn't been used commercially before. It was a 172M and the CoA read just "Normal". We limited that aircraft from spinning to be safe until a new CoA arrived that read "Normal/Utility", like the other two M's in our fleet. I'm not sure if this was a cover-our-ass-just-in-case move or if the legality was researched. I'll ask around..
Interesting! Thanks; I'd be curious about the update.
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b0xoffice
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Re: Normal or Utility Category

Post by b0xoffice »

chephy wrote:Interesting! Thanks; I'd be curious about the update.
We did need to get another CoA before the 172 was legally allowed to intentionally spin. According to CFI who dealt with TC, CoA supercedes POH even though a 172M is a 172M is a 172M.
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PilotDAR
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Re: Normal or Utility Category

Post by PilotDAR »

CoA supercedes POH even though a 172M is a 172M is a 172M.
Interesting, but I'd challenge this up and down with TC. If they want to replace the C of A with one which says Normal and utility, I would not say no. But a C of A does not out rank the type certificate data sheet, which does say that the 172M can be spun. The If TC wants to limit this for some reason, their only legal way would be to issue an Airworthiness Directive for the aircraft against spinning. They dabbled with this in a rather botched way, with an AD on certain 150's a while back, when there were ill founded concerns about the rudder travel.

The C of A validates that serial number aircraft to the TCDS. The TCDS (and any STCs or ADs) are the only things which specify limitations for an aircraft. The TCDS says to operate the aircraft as specified on the limitations placard (which is repeated for the 172 TCDS for convenience).

If you actually have a problem, PM me, I'd like to hear what TC is saying in their words.
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PilotDAR
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Re: Normal or Utility Category

Post by PilotDAR »

Aircraft Operating Limitations

602.07 No person shall operate an aircraft unless it is operated in accordance with the operating limitations

(a) set out in the aircraft flight manual, where an aircraft flight manual is required by the applicable standards of airworthiness;

(b) set out in a document other than the aircraft flight manual, where use of that document is authorized pursuant to Part VII;

(c) indicated by markings or placards required pursuant to section 605.05; or

(d) prescribed by the competent authority of the state of registry of the aircraft.
The CARs don't say that a C of A limits beyond the type certificate
“type certificate” means

(a) a document, including a type approval issued before October 10, 1996 under section 214 of the Air Regulations, issued by the Minister to certify that the type design of an aircraft, aircraft engine or propeller identified in the document meets the applicable standards for that aeronautical product recorded in the type certificate data sheets, or

(b) a document issued by the foreign airworthiness authority having jurisdiction over the type design of an aeronautical product that is equivalent to a document referred to in paragraph (a) and that has been accepted by the Minister for the purpose of issuing a certificate of airworthiness;
So the TCDS is the basis of the C of A
Certificate of Airworthiness

507.02 Where an application for a flight authority is made pursuant to section 507.06, the Minister shall issue a certificate of airworthiness in respect of an aircraft

(a) for which an aircraft type design has been certified by the Minister and the certification is not in respect of a restricted category aircraft;

(b) that conforms to its certified type design; and

(c) that is safe for flight.
So the minister SHALL issue a C of A which conforms to a TCDS - which says you can spin it!

If TC fusses you, ask how they have regulated it differently to the foregoing, I'd be interested to hear!
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