Air Canada Pool

[TheStig]

Fruitloops,

I don't mean to sounds discouraging, because I really do enjoy a good spreadsheet, but take it from someone who's spent a fair bit of time pondering career progression, don't bother. This industry has too many variables things are constantly changing, for example, the PML didn't exist 18 months ago and it's the third flow through agreement in the last 20 years. Those 20 years have seen the airline transition from hiring like crazy to showing a surplus numerous times. While, I'd love to see sustained hiring at the levels you've used, maybe after hearing about 'the upcoming pilot shortage' for so long I'm just a bit of a sceptic.

[pigboat]

Hello,

Only plan on the Knows and not speculations. Plans (Airline or Personal) and circumstances change and can not always be predicted! (Sars, 911, etc)

Givens;

pilots start turning 65 in less than two years.....retirements will start in very significant numbers.
About 80 or more for a period of over 7 years. AC pilots will age out in very significant numbers for the next dozen years.
Westjet pilots, not many retiring any time soon.

The combined fleet of AC and Rouge will LIKELY increase modestly over the next few years. Retirements will be the most sure cause of pilot progression and new pilots being hired. Near 1000 pilots retire over the next dozen years. Us old baby boomers will check out of the seats. The one advantage of an old legacy carrier for the next generation, It has been a very long wait but the transition of generations is at hand.

Regards!

[Brize]

Does anyone know about the dates & class size (this is a long-shot.. types of vacancies) of the upcoming ground schools at AC?

[pigboat]

Does anyone know about the dates & class size (this is a long-shot.. types of vacancies) of the upcoming ground schools at AC?

The last class had 20 pilots. Every course will be assigned aircraft positions based on the need of AC at that specific time. It may be sharply affected by simulator availability as one factor.

Relief on the 777,787 and 767. F/O positions on EMJ, 320, 767 are all possible choices. Each class will be a total roll of the dice as to what is available.

[altiplano]

pig hit the high points.

I'd forecast 2 classes of 20 a month with a majority of positions going mainline 320 and 767.

[sstaurus]

Wow, what a difference. WJ maybe 50 pilots a year, and AC will be doing almost that much hiring per month..

[McAuliffe101]

It seems AC just reviewed its minimum requirements for applicants, with priority given to those with a 3 or 4 years degree / diploma.
Any thoughts on the word "priority"? Is this a polite way to say "no degree, no job offer"? What about the poolies?

[fruitloops]

Pilot applications far exceed job vacancies, so preference is given to candidates with qualifications beyond the basic requirements. Examples of desirable additional qualifications include, but are not limited to:

-Graduates of a three or four year diploma/degree program from a college or university
-Aviation College degree or diploma
-Commercial or military flight experience
-Jet and/or glass cockpit experience

[LTD]

General FYI about hiring, 3 ground schools have been conducted so far in 2016 with 20 pilots each. 80% Jazz PML ratio seems to be respected and the remaining 20% filled by OTS (pool!?) and express pilots.
If I had to venture a guess, looks like 1 or 2 ground schools per month for the next few months at least in order to fill the current 300 vacancies.
Also interesting to note, the most recent equipment bid had emj captains at just over 3 years seniority, 787 FO around 5/6 years... Lots of movement already, and much more to come!
Good luck to all.

[rudder]

Also interesting to note, the most recent equipment bid had emj captains at just over 3 years seniority, 787 FO around 5/6 years... Lots of movement already, and much more to come!
Good luck to all.

SKY is advertising for DEC on the E175. GGN advertising for DEC on the CRJ. Jazz awarding left seat to pilots with less than 2 years of seniority. Junior AC emj Capt will be at 2 years seniority by next year.

It is certainly a sellers market and an interesting time in the AC family of airlines. Growth and attrition are creating a unique set of circumstances.

[watermeth]

it'll be when OTS hiring kicks in...
as of now it's just internal upgrades and/or not so great wawcon.

[rudder]

it'll be when OTS hiring kicks in...
as of now it's just internal upgrades and/or not so great wawcon.

Like I said - Left seat available at SKY and GGN if you have experience. That will get you on the Express PML and PML v2.0 which represents 80% of the AC hiring for the foreseeable future. Currently 50% of OTS slots are going to SKY and GGN. That will continue until PML v1.0 is exhausted.

OTS will be the the most difficult way to get hired at AC for many years to come.

[Taxi]

I'm wondering, if after all this movement, Air Canada won't have the choice to hire OTS. Because if they just pick people from Air Canada express, they won't leave a lot of experience in the cockpit and the OTS won't go to Air Canada express and imagine to be stuck at Sky or Ggn cause there no guarantee you will go to the mainline.

[altiplano]

After the initial Jazz PML commitment is met, I expect there will be hiring from all avenues. I doubt you will see 80% from the neo-Express PMLs.

No question they will still make up a large part of the new hires, but not 80%. They will be scooping up from all spots that can provide candidates with a high probability of success.

[gtanorth]

The PML is specifically designed to drive pilots to Express on their way to AC. OTS will be mainly military and a few lucky others. If you want to go to AC start at Express.

[fruitloops]

One thing to note is that PML 2.0 won't really change things that much as hiring will be done proportionally from all carriers. Jazz which is 80% right now on PML 1.0 will go to about 76% on PML 2.0 by my calculations given the size of the pilot groups of Jazz, SKY, GGN, EVAS. One long timer on here estimates end 2017 before PML 2.0 takes over and Jazz pml exhausted. PML 1.0 and 2.0 are pretty much the same thing in my opinion given these numbers.

BestGuestimates
Current pilots Jazz 1450 GGN 175 SKY 200 EVAS 75
Regional Total 1900

PML 2.0
Jazz 76.3% GGN 9.2% SKY 10.5% EVAS 3.9% OTS ?

[rudder]

BestGuestimates
Current pilots Jazz 1450 GGN 175 SKY 200 EVAS 75
Regional Total 1900

PML 2.0
Jazz 76.3% GGN 9.2% SKY 10.5% EVAS 3.9% OTS ?

By the time that PMLv2.0 kicks in later in 2017, the Express demographic will look more like:

Jazz 1300/68.4%
GGN 300/15.8%
SKY 225/11.8%
EVAS 75/ 3.9%

Total 1900/100%

Express fill 80% of new-hire slots. OTS 20%. So if you want to see what percent (on average) of each PIT course will come from each Express carrier under PMLv2.0 multiply the above % x 0.8

[Elessar_44]

A career opportunity matching the area(s) of interests that you have identified on your online profile is presently vacant. The title of the position is Pilot - Canada

If you are interested and have not been interviewed by Air Canada within the last six (6) months for the same position, please apply online and click here to view the list of other positions currently available.

If you do not wish to receive further job notifications, please click here to access your profile and un-check the box labeled “Please advise me of similar career opportunities.”

We thank you for your interest in Air Canada

Sincerely,

Air Canada Talent Acquisition

Replies to this automated message are undeliverable and will not reach the Talent Acquisition Department. Please do not reply.

Good luck for all applying the first time or second / third / whatever time!

[Mr. T]

I'm curious how this PML list working exactly, so forgive me for being ignorant.

From what I understand, having a number, or being on this list, more or less guarantee's you an interview with mainline, but is in no way a guarantee of a job offer. Am I correct in my understanding?

[mbav8r]

Yes and not exactly, while there is no guarantee of a job AC has to make a minimum of 495 offers from the 700ish pilots on the list. Some will and have opted for the retirement package, some will outright decline but most will likely go. So, even if 100 combined retire/decline that leaves 400 of 600 getting an offer and going, 2/3 shot at it, those odds are likely a lot better than the OTS odds were before this agreement.
Nobody really knows how the second PMA is going to work but I believe that is strictly a guarantee of an interview.

[honest joe]

How many of the Jazz pilots have degrees? Will they still be able to get to AC without one?

[hithere]

Very few pilots at Jazz have degrees. It wasn't a requirement to have one to get hired at Jazz or its predecessors, so it was not a requirement to get hired under the PML with Air Canada. I actually have a university degree and did the PML interview and got rejected(PFO) so obviously Air Canada doesn't give a shit whether you have a degree or not

[John1234]

With the website opening up for application how does this affect the guys at the express level who did not get hired until after the current PMl? Is it now more likely to get hired off the street or come from an express carrier?

[JoeyBarton]

Just my 2 cents on the OTS hiring.
Once Jazz's pml is exhausted, AC will most likely, although nothing is set in stone, hire from its 4 regional partners up to a total of 80%. It does leave 20% for the OTS. Again, most likely, within the 80% coming from the express feeders, the distribution will go by pilot ratio. Jazz being the biggest by far, sky reg and ggn on par, with EVAS being the smallest.
Now, for the OTS, there is going to be huge competition. Even massive. I can just tell, just by my group of friends, that a lot of sunwing, transat, encore and porter folks already did or will apply. We're not talking about king air resumes like AC used to hire just 2-3 years ago. We're talking about guys with probably years of 703 PIC time and extensive airline time in the 5-10k hour range. Plus all the fine folks overseas, well at least some of them, who would like to come back, with again, some heavy jet worldwide experience.
You might have equal chances of getting hired whether you remain OTS or go to Sky Regional in terms of number of pilots hired, but I think you will need a far better resume to get noticed on the OTS side.

[mbav8r]

In my opinion, the fact Air Canada is now looking for a degree means they have enough pilots to fulfill hiring requirements for some time to come. OTS will be quite competitive for a long time perhaps indefinitely, I believe they best way to get to AC going forward will be through the express carriers and this is how the execs set it up.
About 10 years ago the only way to get an interview at AC was to have a degree, nepotism or military flying experience and I remember when I received a phone call for a reference check, the recruiter told me that the pool of applicants with a degree was almost depleted and to "tell my friends" that a degree was no longer required, he even went on to say that even applicants without any 12,500 experience would be looked at.
Times change and will more than likely change again but I would not be holding out for one of the OTS spots unless I could picture myself staying put at my current employer for a long long wait, just my two cents.