How Low Will You Go?

[bmc]

Then raise your fares to provide a nice pillow and blanket for some one stuck in your cabin for a lengthy cross Canada flight. And while you're at it please increase the seat pitch too.

Here's a question... is the word "passenger" removed from your vocabulary as part of being hired at Westjet? Are you punished if you are ever caught saying it?

Hmmm...

It seems that Westjet is doing quite well. They've grown from 3 airplanes in 1997 to what, 70 machines now? All of that with low fares, no pillows, no steaks and reduced seat pitch. To grow at that rate and sustain profitability must indicate a level of understanding their customers and delivering good value. It has to.

I would argue that you do not know what your consumers want, if you are so insistent on pillows, a blanket and a good hot meal. Costco cleaned up on retail by offering warehouses as shopping experience. They embedded a perception of value in consumers minds by them not paying product prices that included lavishly decorated showrooms. The deception was there often was little difference in price. It was disguised in bulk product.

Sticking to your model with such a grip supports the LCC argument. People see right through it. Consumers do not want to pay for frills, regardless of how good the food is, how wide the seat is, or if the pillows were made with down from free range ducks. Clinging to your product features and justifying it with higher fares is going backwards. You make Westjet's entry much easier.

[FICU]

I understand what consumers want... especially during a recession but call me old fashioned when it comes to airline travel. You have to wonder just how far no frills airlines will go when it comes to continually removing service in order to increase profit with $75 dollar fares. Look at Ryan Air as an example... "pay to pee" is being considered... will Westjet go that far? Air Canada is now charging passengers for headsets... had to know that would happen.

[flystraightin]

It seems that Westjet is doing quite well. They've grown from 3 airplanes in 1997 to what, 70 machines now?

Number 80 is said to arrive in August.

[bmc]

Look at Ryan Air as an example... "pay to pee" is being considered... will Westjet go that far? Air Canada is now charging passengers for headsets... had to know that would happen.

In terms of total passengers carried, Ryanair is the 10th largest airline in the world. Hard to believe isn't it?

[whiteguy]

I understand what consumers want... especially during a recession but call me old fashioned when it comes to airline travel. You have to wonder just how far no frills airlines will go when it comes to continually removing service in order to increase profit with $75 dollar fares. Look at Ryan Air as an example... "pay to pee" is being considered... will Westjet go that far? Air Canada is now charging passengers for headsets... had to know that would happen.

And what does Westjet charge for headsets and movies?

[FICU]

In terms of total passengers carried, Ryanair is the 10th largest airline in the world. Hard to believe isn't it?

Yup... I shake my head at what's happening in the industry more and more these days.

[FICU]

And what does Westjet charge for headsets and movies?

Westjet was the leader in charging for headsets and movies... first the 2 tier scheme... 1 dollar really cheap headsets or 3 dollar cheap headsets... now it's just 3 bucks for the really cheap headsets.

I'm sure it won't be long before Air Canada starts charging passenegers for the on demand movies... just a matter of time. It's sad because, besides more leg room, the free movies are the only advantage AC has over Westjet in the cabin.

[whiteguy]

And what does Westjet charge for headsets and movies?

Westjet was the leader in charging for headsets and movies... first the 2 tier scheme... 1 dollar really cheap headsets or 3 dollar cheap headsets... now it's just 3 bucks for the really cheap headsets.

I'm sure it won't be long before Air Canada starts charging passenegers for the on demand movies... just a matter of time. It's sad because, besides more leg room, the free movies are the only advantage AC has over Westjet in the cabin.

Isn't it funny how Westjet is considered a leader for starting to charge for headsets yet when AC started charging they were gouging the customers. Two different standards!

[tonysoprano]

FICU.
Under Montie Brewer, AC was becoming its competitor. Montie was resigned to the idea that "if you can't beat them, join them". With Calin R. you will see AC returning to its original model (not entirely but mostly). I think CR has a better understanding of the Canadian airline customer than Montie did. He realizes that there are two mentalities. One that doesn't care about service and comfort (although they still bitch about it) and the other that seems to want all the good old comforts of air travel and at little or no extra cost. WJ will continue to charge for extras and provide its proven service to its loyal brand of customers as that's what they prefer and expect while AC returns to its original ways. By returning AC to its original form, CR will make his loyal customers happier and more loyal, giving them back what they once expected and took for granted. BTW, let's be clear that AC has always provided free headsets, meals, booze, pillows and blankets and entertainment on its overseas flights.

[mikeecho]

Hmmm...where to start

With just those 2 items that probably 2/3 of the Guests could care less about, an industry leader in profit sees their flight now losing almost $200.

Then raise your fares to provide a nice pillow and blanket for some one stuck in your cabin for a lengthy cross Canada flight. And while you're at it please increase the seat pitch too.

Here's a question... is the word "passenger" removed from your vocabulary as part of being hired at Westjet? Are you punished if you are ever caught saying it? A "guest", to me, is someone who stays at a hotel and doesn't have to pay extra for the nice pillow and blanket. Do you consider yourself a "guest" when traveling to the hotel in the crew van or a "passenger"? Would it be considered a 7 "guest" van or a 7 "passenger" van?

Hmmm...

Having worked for 4 airlines (3 of which had passengers), my preference is for the terminology of "Guest." Pax reminds me of cargo or some type of commodity (which a number of those airlines believed their passengers were).

Plus, this is the only airline that has been profitable, so maybe it's a successful methodology.

As for fares...go ahead and raise fares to provide a pillow/blanket and a hot meal. No one is stopping you.

If there is a market for it, you'll succeed. If the passengers don't follow, then you'll know you're selling the wrong product.

Yup... I shake my head at what's happening in the industry more and more these days.

The world evolves. My Dad used to work at Wardair, and it was an awesome experience to travel on them. The only problem was that they weren't a profitable business!

People have the ability to choose the products they want to purchase and the smart entrepreneurs will find their niche and offer a product that people want.

You don't see many people going to Future Shop to buy a Betamax these days?

[mikeecho]

FICU.
Under Montie Brewer, AC was becoming its competitor. Montie was resigned to the idea that "if you can't beat them, join them". With Calin R. you will see AC returning to its original model (not entirely but mostly). I think CR has a better understanding of the Canadian airline customer than Montie did. He realizes that there are two mentalities. One that doesn't care about service and comfort (although they still bitch about it) and the other that seems to want all the good old comforts of air travel and at little or no extra cost. WJ will continue to charge for extras and provide its proven service to its loyal brand of customers as that's what they prefer and expect while AC returns to its original ways. By returning AC to its original form, CR will make his loyal customers happier and more loyal, giving them back what they once expected and took for granted. BTW, let's be clear that AC has always provided free headsets, meals, booze, pillows and blankets and entertainment on its overseas flights.

The biggest thing that needs to happen (speaking from my past AC employment history) and from feedback from my former AC colleagues is a return to customer service friendly policies (which CR has already alluded to) and the ability for frontline employees to make decisions that resolve passengers concerns (without being disciplined for not following policy) especially if the decision was the right one to make.

As a CSM at AC, I was questioned for refunding tickets for a family of four who were traveling for a vacation at spring break. Their flight was oversold by 17 and the next available flight with seats was in 5 days. It turned out, the family could catch a flight on WJ in a couple of hours and salvage their vacation, so I did the right thing and gave them their money back (despite the fact that the tickets were non refundable). It was the right thing to do and the only thing that could have possibly been done to win them over for future travel with AC. Instead, I was given the gears for a week.

The other big focus was on handing any issue over to Customer Relations... defer everything to Customer relations was the mandate!

It's not enough to tell a passenger who has just had a bad experience that their only option is to write down their issue and fax it to a 1-800 number and they should get a response in 6-8 weeks.

That's 6-8 weeks for that issue to fester and grow into a major problem (regardless of how small the issue is) and it's 6-8 weeks to tell all their friends about how they had a problem with AC and nothing will happen.

Research shows that the most loyal customers are those that have actually been inconvenienced by the company, but had a quick or immediate resolution. When that happens, those people will not only be more likely to provide return business (the data is quite staggering as their loyalty rate is something like 85-90%), they will tell and strongly recommend their friends try the company as well.

Let's face it, for the last 13 years WJ has not been able to compete with AC in terms of route network, flight frequencies, loyalty programs, code share markets, etc... The success and growth from 3 aircraft to 79 has been almost 100% fueled by a focus on customer service friendly policies.

[FICU]

Isn't it funny how Westjet is considered a leader for starting to charge for headsets yet when AC started charging they were gouging the customers. Two different standards!

Please don't take my comment the wrong way... my reference to "leader" is in regards to Westjet being the leader to the bottom.

[Stinky]

I actually liked AC's a la carte strategy. I don't think there's enough room in the skies for for numerous carriers providing different levels of service.
Having one carrier that can provide all levels of service tailored to each customers preference seemed like a great idea. Too bad the general public couldn't see the benefits and just considered it gouging.
When I went online to AC's website a few months ago to book travel, I thought it was great that I could simply click on options like "my way" or meal voucher. It would have also reduced my fare by $5 if I had no checked bags. This gave me the option of having the low cost experience or full service airline experience all on the same plane.

[tonysoprano]

Let's face it, for the last 13 years WJ has not been able to compete with AC in terms of route network, flight frequencies, loyalty programs, code share markets, etc... The success and growth from 3 aircraft to 79 has been almost 100% fueled by a focus on customer service friendly policies.[/quote]

No it hasn't. It's been based on the fact that the country can support two major domestic airlines and the one model suits one type of customer and the other model suits, well, the other. Right place, right time for WJ to show up after Canadian went tits up. Canadian would still be around if they hadn't been so ambitious and greedy. As a domestic carrier, they would have done pretty good. "Friendly policies" have limited endeavors if you're not willing to provide better "network, flight frequencies, loyalty programs, code share markets, etc..."!! In the process of achieving this WJ will have to go through a TRANSFORMATION. Have a look at the last pilot negotiations. No huge transformation and yet the "challenges" have already begun. In order to achieve the real competitive edge, sacrifices will have to be made and that will be the challenge for the labour groups. Simply increasing the number of aircraft doesn't mean achieved success. The bigger you grow, the more challenges. So far, it's worked. But only because the company has had room to grow.

Mickecchoo.
Some have a bad story. Most seem to come back or never leave, that's what's important. You need to justify your decision. That's what's important to you. AC will eventually return to its roots as a real airline. It's unfortunate that it had to merge with the "enemy" and then fell into the wrong hands. I have a feeling this circle is not far from being complete. It's going to be one hell of a book when it comes out.

[Jastapilot]

<- for FICU

[tonysoprano]

[Jastapilot]

Gee Tony, I didn't want to hurt your feelings!

But this one's for you!

[FICU]

Jasta... thanks for adding your valuable contribution to the thread, as usual... the truth confusing for you?

[Jastapilot]

Sorry, I don't feel like rehashing the drivel you've already posted, so go ahead and hit me with your 'truth', as you see it.

[stickontheice]

but call me old fashioned when it comes to airline travel.

Personally, FICU, I would call you something else as you just negatively spin everything about WestJet. Some "liar" up in Yellowknife, have to pay for blankets and pillows, and then try to associate Ryan Air with WJ and having to pay to pee are all examples of what a fool you are. You should honestly turn off the computer and spare us all from your miserable life.

[FICU]

You should honestly turn off the computer and spare us all from your miserable life.

Seeing that you know nothing about me or my life I'll let you know that I have a wonderful life thanks.

As for Westjet, the statement about Westjet's load number on the inaugural flight comes from the Yellowknife airport itself. Why a spokesperson didn't report the actual number is their issue not mine. The forum user, bmc", asked for updates on Westjet's Yellowknife run so I have provided it. I personally don't ask for pillows or blankets on domestic flights but the last time I flew Westjet the cabin crew announced that pillows and blankets were for sale. No mention was made about free "cheaper" pillows and blankets being available. Maybe they should alter their announcements to say that free ones are available and better ones can be purchased but then the dollar conscious "guests" might never pay for a pillow and Westjet would lose some profit so I doubt the announcement will change.

What's your issue with a comparison to Ryan Air? Ryan Air is a very, if not the most successful low cost, no frills carrier on the planet. Do you know to what lengths Westjet will go reducing onboard product to increase profit in the future? I don't and I sure hope they don't go any further! Like I said... the quality of airline travel in Canada is going downhill and Westjet is the leader in the race to the bottom... can you deny that?

[balfour]

give it a rest .

[Flightlevels]

FICU,

If you solely judge westjet by it's light loads to start or it's lack of following traditional perks on a flight for free I think you couldn't be more narrow minded. YQT started with terible loads. so did Sudbury. One grew and one didn't. Yellowknife is getting a try. After all it's a free country right?
Here are some other things that westjet has done incase you forgot. Things like RNP. Things like growing to a two billion plus company with 800 cash in the bank and no mortgage on our hangar/new 100 million dollar campus including 3 new simulators. Things like having the fairest bidding system for holidays and schedules without being attached to your seniority number. Things like having a new fleet of aircraft. things like having no major accidents incurring loss of life. things like an open door policy to our managers. Things like a proactive leadership. things like a 20 percent share match and profit share schedule. things like de-fibs and satellite telephones in all aircraft with links to the good samaritan hospital (medilink) for guest safety....it goes on...
Yup leading right to the bottom. It's amazing that so many airlines come to our offices to study us in various ways and in different departments to improve their operations and are followed by many analysts.
Can you say that with humility about your employer? Simply saying we have hungry guests and you have to buy a headset/blanket for 20 something guests reveals more about you and your thinking than you have led yourself to believe. Ya we have faults but you better get over what we charge and where we fly to especially at this time of year.

[FICU]

Sure seemed to have touched a nerve.

I have never said Westjet wasn't a successful airline. They have done very well and I know many people there, some happy and some looking elsewhere to work.

My whole point in this is that since Westjet came into the market not only have prices dropped but so has service and onboard product on Canada's two largest airlines. Your initial wages also dropped the standard of the profession across the country and made way for jokes like JetsGo to enter the market. Prior to Westjet's arrival did large airlines force their employees to either move to one city or make them pay for their hotel and meals while doing the initial training? Did you get paid your full F/O salary while you were doing your initial training or just a fraction of it?

Where are we today? Air Canada's entry level salary is $35,000. Sunwing forces new hires to pay a bond. Canjet pays Boeing Captains $80,000. Are you happy with that?

I'm glad you guys were able to improve your compensation and good luck with the new contract but ultimately, since Westjet's arrival on the scene, this industry has taken steps backwards in many areas.

I was treated like a professional should be treated when I was hired... it didn't cost me a cent, I received full salary, and I am paid very well but thanks to Westjet that may change in the future as might the the level of service and quality of onboard product my company offers to it's passengers. Like I said... backwards steps... thanks.

[Jastapilot]

Sure seemed to have touched a nerve.

I have never said Westjet wasn't a successful airline. They have done very well and I know many people there, some happy and some looking elsewhere to work.

My whole point in this is that since Westjet came into the market not only have prices dropped but so has service and onboard product on Canada's two largest airlines. Your initial wages also dropped the standard of the profession across the country and made way for jokes like JetsGo to enter the market. Prior to Westjet's arrival did large airlines force their employees to either move to one city or make them pay for their hotel and meals while doing the initial training? Did you get paid your full F/O salary while you were doing your initial training or just a fraction of it?

Where are we today? Air Canada's entry level salary is $35,000. Sunwing forces new hires to pay a bond. Canjet pays Boeing Captains $80,000. Are you happy with that?

I'm glad you guys were able to improve your compensation and good luck with the new contract but ultimately, since Westjet's arrival on the scene, this industry has taken steps backwards in many areas.

I was treated like a professional should be treated when I was hired... it didn't cost me a cent, I received full salary, and I am paid very well but thanks to Westjet that may change in the future as might the the level of service and quality of onboard product my company offers to it's passengers. Like I said... backwards steps... thanks.

Maybe you should educate yourself before you show us all what an ignorant asshat you really are.