Cat & Doc

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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Acro ground school, free of charge:

www.pittspecials.com/articles/Aerobatics_intro.htm
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by JungianJugular »

Ah, the tales of AvCanada dramas. Doc & Cat, two legendary pilots, no longer to be seen. But their memories will live long. Over the flight schools that are stealing hours from young naive student pilots and instructors who are eating cat food, Cessnas are flying in missing man formation flight over our fallen comrades, Doc & Cat. who just happen to be in the bathroom and away from the keyboard, or AFK. Little did we know, Doc is complaining over the lack of toilet paper. He faces a dilemma himself. Go to Walmart without wiping his ass? And Cat, lets just say Cat doesn't need toilet paper. His shit is gold. The internet will soldier on, and AvCanada will never be the same. It's a story of two men, two souls. Two stars in the night sky. A twinkle in the disparity of e-drama.

Little did we know, the writers of Young & The Restless were roaming this forum anonymously stealing ideas.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Careful - you might hurt their feelings!

(snort)
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by JungianJugular »

I've only communicated with Doc via e-mail and Facebook, he's a swell guy. I do not know Cat, but Cat I wish you nothing but success off this forum. We miss you. I miss you. My feelings are not the same.

As for feelings, too many feelings are hurt here. Feelings must be nurtured.

I propose a new forum be generated by AvCanada, titled "Nurturing Feelings". There we can talk about our feelings. FEELINGS. F-e-e-l-i-n-g-s.

My feelings are affected ...
My feelings have feelings ..
Too many hurt feelings ...

Internet.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by NWONT »

I see we have another thread starting about respect. Guess we all respect people for different reasons. A few years back a pilot wrote an article about his flying career. I tried to find it but couldn't. This guy was an American Indian who went from being a fighter pilot to the airlines. He talked of the Macho, he-man aspect of flying. How real men drank all night and flew all day. Long story short, he and his crew got removed from their aircraft after one of those nights. He admitted his crime, accepted his punishment, was fired, licence revoked, imprisoned and shamed. He was told he would never fly again. After a very long struggle, many years, and with much determination and help from those who believed in him, he rebuilt his life and worked his way back up to retire as a B747 Capt. I realize he never should have done it but many of us have, but I have nothing but respect for his truthfulness, determination and desire to tell the story of his fall from grace and difficult climb back up to let others know it can be done. A real story of dedication and inspiration. Wish I could find it.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by TG »

I believe you are talking about Norman Lyle Prouse.
http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/1829 ... directed=1
Amazing recovery story yes, worth the reading.

------------------
4 or 5 years ago, there used to be a section of the forum in avcanada called-->I have a great deal of aviation experience in:
That was a total flop, only two topics started if I recall.

I never understood why people like Doc Hedley and numerous others with a great deal of flying experiences in various areas did not post a thing there (Cat did give some help though, good and fun reading) It was a great place to do it, a great place to channel all that. Maybe people got shy about it I don't know.
But anyone with reasonable knowledge could have come up there, write about him or herself without being bashed down constantly. Or simply passing like egocentrics maniacs because they feel the need to justify themselves every time they are writing about something and questioned about it.

I have a great deal of aviation experience in: was a subsection of the AvCanada's Mentor Program. Which is gone as well.
Not due to some internet fist fight, just by what looked like a....Total lack of interest from both side.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by single_swine_herder »

For those with hurt feelings, let's make it official and file a "Hurt Feelings Report" with the mods of the forum.

If the information you present is considered to have merit, no doubt the mods will do their duty and pour oil on the troubled waters to ensure that nothing but goodness and mercy shall follow them.

Oh wait, pouring oil on waters is unacceptable for multiple reasons.

Lets try something less offensive and technologically advanced .... the concerned parties will be encouraged to undergo counselling via Skype or using "Go To Meeting" software.
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JungianJugular
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by JungianJugular »

SSH, you are what they call a "self starter" and a team player.

I believe we need a confidential reporting system as well.

Image
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by NWONT »

Yes Sir, TG, that's the story and I'd be proud to know Mr Prouse.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Cat Driver »

My thoughts on stick and rudder skills.

The ability to identify movements in yaw, pitch and roll then control these movements. ( during take off control these movements to fly the take off path and the desired climb path. )

I do not assume an aircraft will yaw in a given direction when applying take off power.

Not all propellors or rotor systems turn the same direction.....if it yaws control it to maintain the desired path or in the case of a helicopter to prevent unwanted yaw.

If you start every take off with that sight picture and control response the rest is far less difficult to perform.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by DonutHole »

I think one of the o.g.'s here once said use the controls to make the aircraft do what you want it to do.

Seems like pretty good advice.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I do not assume an aircraft will yaw in a given direction when applying take off power
Indeed. A little while ago, a guy came to me with
a CJ-6A and wanted some aerobatic instruction.

Sure, said I. Never flown one before. Prop turns
the "other way".

As expected, it needed LEFT rudder over the top
of the loop (slow, +ve G, slipstream contracts)
instead of RIGHT rudder.

Great fun, flying a new type. I think the mixture
control was reversed - back was rich, forward
was lean. One has to be a little careful of those
things. $400,000 Cornell, anyone?

Was doing some flight instruction in the back seat
of a tandem homebuilt. No brakes or throttle in
the back seat (student sits in front). So, I cut down
a hockey stick so I could reach the front seat throttle
on the left side, from the rear seat.

The owner kindly put a throttle in the back seat
for me, but because of where the linkage can go,
the throttle in the back seat is REVERSED - back
for power, forward for idle. Makes landings interesting.

I do wish some other flight instructors would step
up and do some of this stuff. I get stuck with it.
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Last edited by Colonel Sanders on Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Shiny Side Up »

The owner kindly put a throttle in the back seat
for me, but because of where the linkage can go,
the throttle in the back seat is REVERSED - back
for power, forward for idle. Makes landings interesting.
I got to fly an old Stinson that was set up like this once, though it did have a neat release mechanism on the throttle lever that reminded you it wasn't standard. Still had its FAA markings from the war. Not a big deal if you've driven enough tractors. And the stinson was certainly tractorish enough to put you in the right mood.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by pelmet »

Colonel Sanders wrote: The owner kindly put a throttle in the back seat
for me, but because of where the linkage can go,
the throttle in the back seat is REVERSED - back
for power, forward for idle. Makes landings interesting.
There is precedent for that in Canada. Our North American Yale's that were supposed to go to France were manufactured with reverse throttles for the French. They were modified upon delivery to Canada though.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Colonel Sanders »

You're going to think I'm nuts, but it would
be great fun to take off and - SURPRISE -
have the ailerons reversed. Happens every
once in a while, after heavy mtce. A neat challenge.

This sounds weird, but I derive great satisfaction
from the challenge of flying broken airplanes.
Spices up the flight, like some Frank's Red Hot
Sauce on your eggs at breakfast.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by North Shore »

Cat Driver wrote:
As to flying one the first impression you will get is it takes a lot of power to move the flight controls when flying it, especially the rudder.

On take off in the water the control force on the elevators is about one hundred pounds of pull to get full up elevator at take off power to get the nose high enough to get it on the step, however once on the step the elevator control force gets progressively lighter as you accelerate to flying speed providing it is trimmed correctly. The use of trim is very important in a PBY unless you have the strength of several gorillas.

It will also porpoise very quickly unless you maintain the proper attitude, generally three fully developed porpoise cycles will be the most you will survive, after that the machine will self destroy.
So full aft stick, and full power 'till she comes over the hump, and on to the step, and then off she goes?
On a Cl215, there's a white line on the floor that roughly lines up with a white line on the stick; you then take the power up to 40" until she comes over the hump onto the step, and then up to 53" for the rest of the takeoff. Apparently, if you go straight up to 53", she'll rear out of the water, smash back down, and leave you semi-porpoising until it gets airborne.
Perhaps something to do with having 2800s vs 1830s, and more power?
Curious.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Colonel Sanders wrote:You're going to think I'm nuts, but it would
be great fun to take off and - SURPRISE -
have the ailerons reversed. Happens every
once in a while, after heavy mtce. A neat challenge.

This sounds weird, but I derive great satisfaction
from the challenge of flying broken airplanes.
Spices up the flight, like some Frank's Red Hot
Sauce on your eggs at breakfast.
I think there is a difference between successfully dealing with an in flight aircraft emergency through a sound understanding of the aircraft and its systems combined with the ability to remain cool under pressure, to having to deal with an emergency that was entirely preventable through a pre flight appropriate to the situation.

I think it is foolish to not do a full control check on a strange to you airplane or one that just had any significant maintenance. Reversed controls are 100 % detectable before flight, surviving such an episode
should not, in my opinion, be cause for celebration......

As for your checkout in the CJ6 I also think you should not be boasting about how little you know about the aircraft. Knowing the gotcha's, particularly for the more unusual systems, is part of your job and that only comes with a comprehensive systems knowledge.

Finally I will pass along to the avcanada brethren, a bit of advice I got from a very been there done that, pilot early in my career. When the airplane starts doing something weird you should consider as a first course of action, undoing what ever you did to it last. That little piece of advice has proven extremely useful with a recalcitrant airplane on several occasions
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Cat Driver »

Cat Driver wrote:

As to flying one the first impression you will get is it takes a lot of power to move the flight controls when flying it, especially the rudder.

On take off in the water the control force on the elevators is about one hundred pounds of pull to get full up elevator at take off power to get the nose high enough to get it on the step, however once on the step the elevator control force gets progressively lighter as you accelerate to flying speed providing it is trimmed correctly. The use of trim is very important in a PBY unless you have the strength of several gorillas.

It will also porpoise very quickly unless you maintain the proper attitude, generally three fully developed porpoise cycles will be the most you will survive, after that the machine will self destroy.


So full aft stick, and full power 'till she comes over the hump, and on to the step, and then off she goes?
On a Cl215, there's a white line on the floor that roughly lines up with a white line on the stick; you then take the power up to 40" until she comes over the hump onto the step, and then up to 53" for the rest of the takeoff. Apparently, if you go straight up to 53", she'll rear out of the water, smash back down, and leave you semi-porpoising until it gets airborne.
Perhaps something to do with having 2800s vs 1830s, and more power?
Curious.

It is probably more to do with hull shape and flight control / thrust line placement than weight to power.

I have not flown a 215 so can not really compare the two.

The PBY requires you to maintain full up elevator as you feed in take off power ( 48 inches and 2700 RPM .

It is slow to rise up on the step and you can not rush it......takes a little bit of getting used to.....bcause it is relatively underpowered compared to a lot of other flying boats..

Once on the step it is quite easy to handle as long as you maintain the take off attitude ( 3 to 5 degrees nose up. ) and there are no swells in your take off path.

The Super Cat has lots of power and is far easier to handle during water take offs.

The PBY will handle a lot more X/W during skimming than the 215 will, at least it could when we worked with the 215's on fires.

Where the 215's really out performed us was shorter pick up runs and better climb and cruise.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I think it is foolish to not do a full control check on an airplane that just had any significant maintenance
Rather obviously. I was using that as an illustrative
example. However, it is not a completely irrelevant
one.

I can take any perfectly serviceable airplane, and
reverse the sense of the ailerons, as I described,
without taking a wrench to it.

How?
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by iflyforpie »

Tail slide. :wink:


Tail wind for that matter. That's why our control inputs are reversed for quartering headwind vs quartering tailwind on the ground.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Negative G will reverse the effect of ailerons, as well.

In fact, you co-ordinate -ve G turns with opposite rudder!
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by iflyforpie »

I guess it depends on what you consider 'opposite'. Right stick will still roll your plane right, but you will turn left and require left rudder to remain coordinated. Of course, from a right side up reference it is all 'right'.

At least that is what my dozens of inverted hours on the sim and my seconds of actual inverted time in the carbureted Citabria have told me. :wink:
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by Cat Driver »

Yesterday I had one of the highlights of our trip.

I stopped at Hearst Air Service and had a real nice visit with them.

Not only was it a trip back in time it was nice to see a first class operation in the bush flying business.

All that has changed in the bush flying business since the days I was flying them is the airplanes have turbine engines.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by PilotDAR »

there used to be a section of the forum in avcanada called-->I have a great deal of aviation experience in:
That was a total flop, only two topics started if I recall.

I never understood why people like Doc Hedley and numerous others with a great deal of flying experiences in various areas did not post a thing there
Yeah, I can see why that title would flop! I once, and only once told someone I was expert in something (I was 14, and it was not airplanes). I was rightly trounced, by two fellows way more knowledgeable than I in the subject of the day. Therefore, I won't even risk saying I have a lot of experience, as there will always be a lineup of people with more. I might say I have "enough to be safe doing.... in....", but that's as far as I'd take it.

If someone asks "Do I have experience in ....." I will answer honestly, with a number to indicate on some scale how much, and they can be the judge if that is enough for them - not I.

One day, when I'm Cat's age, I might stick my neck out, but not till then!
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Re: Cat & Doc

Post by oldtimer »

About two hundered jillion years ago I was instructing at a prairies flying club and we had a bunch of farmers and cat skinners learning to fly and they were forever pushing the throttle in for idle and pulling back for power. That is the way a crawler tractor and many farm tractors worked. Made for some interesting trips.
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