Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

fish4life wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:40 am

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

Saying “narrow body” is very general. Right now the aircraft you are on makes a big difference. It definitely seems like 320 and 737 are opposite ends of schedule satisfaction from what I can tell.

Old fella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:19 am Since this is a “ what would you do…..” type question, permit me to pipe in as a non airline pilot. If I wore a much younger man’s clothes but was able to take my curriculum vitae with me(ATPL, 6000+ time, vast majority light turbine multi of course, small c550 time, no 705, little bit of heavy PBY-5A and CL215 and University degree) AC would be my one and only choice. I would work my very hardest to impress if I was given the privilege of an interview. The variety of flying B777,’87, A330 on international routes is the selling point for me, also domestic on the NB fleet for a bit as well but the bigger stuff is my “ go to” reason.

garfield wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:24 pm If you're a widebody captain on WB at AC or WJ can you afford a house in YYZ or YVR?

garfield wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:24 pm If you're a widebody captain on WB at AC or WJ can you afford a house in YYZ or YVR?

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:10 pm I’m not going to speculate on why you would like to intentionally mislead your fellow pilots. Here are the facts as of this summer.

YYZ- 737-FO Optimization and red eyes went up to to top 10%, Date of hire 2015 working 17 days. All blockholders junior to 2013 working 16 or more days.

YYZ- 320-FO Optimization to top 15%, Date of hire 2016 working 18 days with sim. All blockholders junior to 2016 working 16 or more days.

YYZ- 220 - FO Optimization to top 12%, Date of hire 2017 working 17 days with sim. All blockholders junior to 2017 working 16 or more days.


There is a reason why the most junior captain is only a couple years in, because it takes years of seniority to control one’s schedule. If the schedule was good, a CA position would never go so junior.

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

flying4dollars wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:46 pm

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

Who's doing 12-14???? I'm junior. I'm NB. I'm working 16.

WillC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:59 pm

flying4dollars wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:46 pm

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Who's doing 12-14???? I'm junior. I'm NB. I'm working 16.

Yeah, I am a RP, working 18 days/month, 6 Europe turns, some layovers are just 21 hours... No one is doing less than 14 days.

As a family man myself I resent your characterization of the situation, you know what 50-60 olds have, grandchildren and years of missed holidays to make up for. Besides, even without grandchildren, my “kids” still came home for Christmas morning ever since they left home. That may change where we go visit them for the holidays but it’s absurd that you think someone who reaches an age doesn’t have a reason to have the holidays off, you’re the selfish one in this situation!
Seniority is what it is, you have none and get nothing, then you get some and someone junior to you resents you for using it, great system!
Sounds like you made a great decision to go to WJ, you would have been miserable in a seniority system

Aviator12 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:07 pm

As a family man myself I resent your characterization of the situation, you know what 50-60 olds have, grandchildren and years of missed holidays to make up for. Besides, even without grandchildren, my “kids” still came home for Christmas morning ever since they left home. That may change where we go visit them for the holidays but it’s absurd that you think someone who reaches an age doesn’t have a reason to have the holidays off, you’re the selfish one in this situation!
Seniority is what it is, you have none and get nothing, then you get some and someone junior to you resents you for using it, great system!
Sounds like you made a great decision to go to WJ, you would have been miserable in a seniority system

Not really what I was trying to say. I get that in a seniority based position you pay your dues for years and end up hopefully getting what you want later on in your career. And you definitely should in that system.

I’m sure I would have been miserable in a seniority based system. Hence why I chose WJ. I don’t want to wait many years to finally get a schedule that suits my family. No guarantee I’ll even be around by then.

The bidding system at WJ isn’t perfect but I find there are many options with something for everyone. Generally I’ve heard most seem to get what they want. Obviously there will be a few times you won’t get everything you want. As a commuter I bid check in and check out, days off I want and 4-5 day pairings. So far it’s worked out really well for me.

Hopefully this system stays for the long run. It gets me going when I hear a senior coworker who has benefited almost their entire career on a socialized bidding system say they now want a seniority system. Seems a little selfish to me.

garfield wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:24 pm If you're a widebody captain on WB at AC or WJ can you afford a house in YYZ or YVR?

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

smooth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:28 am You probably never work for AC correct? I just check each fleet's schedule, and even with some junior FO, it's 12-14 days working on the narrow body. Wide body RP are working less than 14 days and laying over in Rome, Vienna, Lisbon...etc

People are making shit up, in my last company one captain told me flat pay at AC is $40k why would I want to go there?!?!
man people need to update their info

The newest captain on 737 is 2022 hire just FYI

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm AC currently has one of, if not the worst scheduling rules in the country. While accruing seniority does help the scheduling become more manageable, most people are completely unaware of how long this actually takes. On the narrow body, FO’s take 7-8 years to get a good schedule and Captains take 13-15 years.
Comparing the collective agreements, there are perhaps three articles that AC has has the upper hand with: Pension, Disability, and Sick Leave. All the others WestJet trumps AC.

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:49 am To further prove my point, blockhokders 1 and 2 on the YYZ 737 CA list for September, are working 17 and 18 days respectively. Both have 25+ years with AC.

Curiousflyer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:49 am To further prove my point, blockhokders 1 and 2 on the YYZ 737 CA list for September, are working 17 and 18 days respectively. Both have 25+ years with AC.

Hysteria wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:15 pm This forum has been very eye opening for prospective guys like myself.

The consensus seems to be

AC pros:
pension
diversity of work
job security
WB pay?

WJ pros:
SB - better schedule albeit junior/senior
lifestyle
vacation
Alberta bases

This is just from what I've gathered and I'm sure there are far more details. I could be getting this wrong.

I recently saw on another post that reserve at WJ extended from 2017 at YYC? How long does it actually take to get off reserve at YYC/YEG?

Hysteria wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:15 pm This forum has been very eye opening for prospective guys like myself.

The consensus seems to be

AC pros:
pension
diversity of work
job security
WB pay?

WJ pros:
SB - better schedule albeit junior/senior
lifestyle
vacation
Alberta bases

This is just from what I've gathered and I'm sure there are far more details. I could be getting this wrong.

I recently saw on another post that reserve at WJ extended from 2017 at YYC? How long does it actually take to get off reserve at YYC/YEG?