737 Overstaffed

[Oleo 4]

I understand the angst and disappointment regarding flow from Encore to WestJet with the uncertainties of Sunwing integration. I'm not surprised to hear that flow has slowed. The hiring at WestJet this year has also given the unknowns with the integration and the uptake to pilots vs planes.

I certainly sympathize with our Encore pilots feeling frustrated right now, please give this some time for the committees and company to work towards a long term solution vs cutting down future colleagues on a forum. Hours and ATPL's will not be the benchmark to exclude small number of pilots from this integration. As with our future SOP's, several policies and practices will be amended during this process.

What we can not let happen is our emotions taking over without the benefit of intellect! Next groundschool has 10, mix of off the street, return to work, and flow. We have had several 87 captains in the recent months also return to the 37 (AR) which fills slots for flow. The one constant in my time with WestJet has been change, never easy for us on the line to always understand, and even more difficult for management at times to get buy in on new ideas. Give this some time as the merge process is still in its infancy.

O

[Inverted2]

Wikipedia shows over 100 737 orders. What I don't know is delivery dates and if they're replacements for retiring NGs or growth.

WJ did a massive withdrawal from Eastern Canada. I'm guessing it's a combination of max delivery issues and merger. Both of those are why the airline is stagnating.

Is Sunwing coming with enough pilots for their planes? Are they understaffed, or adequate?

Sunwing is bringing far more pilots than they need with that many airplanes

Out of interest how many of these are cadets with less than 1500 hours/no ATPL who won’t be allowed to work at WJ and will be probably facing layoff? Or are the cadets a very small amount?

Extremely unlikely they would get the boot because they don’t have an ATPL. If they are qualified to fly a 737 at Sunwing then they will be allowed to fly a 737 at WJ. I’m sure a labour lawyer would back this up. Plus it’s likely a very small amount of pilots in this situation.

[nohojob]

Sunwing is bringing far more pilots than they need with that many airplanes

Out of interest how many of these are cadets with less than 1500 hours/no ATPL who won’t be allowed to work at WJ and will be probably facing layoff? Or are the cadets a very small amount?

Extremely unlikely they would get the boot because they don’t have an ATPL. If they are qualified to fly a 737 at Sunwing then they will be allowed to fly a 737 at WJ. I’m sure a labour lawyer would back this up. Plus it’s likely a very small amount of pilots in this situation.

Also since they are qualified they don't have to be trained beside the SOP change. In another word it's a lot cheaper than hiring new guys !

[pacman007]

The pilots with no ATPL I assume are lower on the list. If WestJet is truly over staffed they will just lay them off. There is no scenario where WestJet carries hundreds of extra pilots. They always run lean very lean.

[boeingboy]

The question really becomes - If we ignore Sunwing for a minute - is Westjet overstaffed?

Sunwing is overstaffed for 18 airplanes.....but one must remember that we more than double in size for the winter season. 40+ airplanes. When you look at those numbers it's not so bad anymore. Westjet needs to get more planes as there are not enough to support the Sunwing side yet. Once those new aircraft show up things will be fine if Westjet itself is not overstaffed.

[phenix]

The question really becomes - If we ignore Sunwing for a minute - is Westjet overstaffed?

Sunwing is overstaffed for 18 airplanes.....but one must remember that we more than double in size for the winter season. 40+ airplanes. When you look at those numbers it's not so bad anymore. Westjet needs to get more planes as there are not enough to support the Sunwing side yet. Once those new aircraft show up things will be fine if Westjet itself is not overstaffed.

How does Sunwing usually fill the 22+ extra planes during the winter? Dry lease?

[Canadaflyer46]

The pilots with no ATPL I assume are lower on the list. If WestJet is truly over staffed they will just lay them off. There is no scenario where WestJet carries hundreds of extra pilots. They always run lean very lean.

Agreed. This is the airline that laid off 400+ pilots out of spite just as things were spooling up after Covid. They won’t carry any extra bodies if we’re overstaffed and will lay off in a heartbeat is my expectation. They run very lean.

[dontcallmeshirley]

How does Sunwing usually fill the 22+ extra planes during the winter? Dry lease?

A handful of wet leases. Mostly dry leases.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sunwing was the largest commercial aircraft importer/exporter in Canada.
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Sun ... b737ng.htm

[QKZXKV]

The pilots with no ATPL I assume are lower on the list. If WestJet is truly over staffed they will just lay them off. There is no scenario where WestJet carries hundreds of extra pilots. They always run lean very lean.

Agreed. This is the airline that laid off 400+ pilots out of spite just as things were spooling up after Covid. They won’t carry any extra bodies if we’re overstaffed and will lay off in a heartbeat is my expectation. They run very lean.

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

[ant_321]

The pilots with no ATPL I assume are lower on the list. If WestJet is truly over staffed they will just lay them off. There is no scenario where WestJet carries hundreds of extra pilots. They always run lean very lean.

Agreed. This is the airline that laid off 400+ pilots out of spite just as things were spooling up after Covid. They won’t carry any extra bodies if we’re overstaffed and will lay off in a heartbeat is my expectation. They run very lean.

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

AR’s?

[QKZXKV]

Agreed. This is the airline that laid off 400+ pilots out of spite just as things were spooling up after Covid. They won’t carry any extra bodies if we’re overstaffed and will lay off in a heartbeat is my expectation. They run very lean.

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

AR’s?

Area restricted pilots over 65 are called "ARs" internally I believe.

[daedalusx]

If there's layoffs then it'll go by seniority number just like it always has been in all airlines ... You're crazy if you believe that a 2018 DOH cadet with 2000 hours on the 737 without his ATPL will get laid off before a 2023 OTS WJ hire ...

[Canadaflyer46]

The pilots with no ATPL I assume are lower on the list. If WestJet is truly over staffed they will just lay them off. There is no scenario where WestJet carries hundreds of extra pilots. They always run lean very lean.

Agreed. This is the airline that laid off 400+ pilots out of spite just as things were spooling up after Covid. They won’t carry any extra bodies if we’re overstaffed and will lay off in a heartbeat is my expectation. They run very lean.

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling that program will disappear now that the age 67 proposal in the US is officially shot down. It is costing WJ a lot of money to keep the AR program going, and will only increase every year as more choose not to retire.

[safetyfirst123]

A big question for next winter is how Sunwing will operate 40 or so aircraft. Sunwing will have their 18 airplanes, and approximately 500 pilots. Will dry leases still come from Europe? And will wet leases be Westjet only? Either way, it is highly likely that Sunwing will have to start hiring again soon for the upcoming winter season.

[phenix]

If there's layoffs then it'll go by seniority number just like it always has been in all airlines ... You're crazy if you believe that a 2018 DOH cadet with 2000 hours on the 737 without his ATPL will get laid off before a 2023 OTS WJ hire ...

Maybe. In that very hypothetical scenario WJ would be firing their own employee to replace he or she by someone from the company they bought, who doesn’t have the qualifications required to work at WJ at the first place. I wouldn’t go as far as calling crazy the possibility that it doesn’t go that way.

[Blackdog0301]

If there's layoffs then it'll go by seniority number just like it always has been in all airlines ... You're crazy if you believe that a 2018 DOH cadet with 2000 hours on the 737 without his ATPL will get laid off before a 2023 OTS WJ hire ...

It would be based on seniority numbers if it came to this. Why do you bother even mentioning experience on type? It means absolutely nothing. However, if WestJet ends up with a surplus in pilots after this merger, they will have zero reason to lower their hiring minimums, and non-ATPL pilots will be out of luck coming to WestJet mainline.

Edit: Additionally, I've always wondered why anyone with over 1500 hours don't get their ATPL licenses. I get that you need PIC. But when exactly do you expect to get it? You were given an opportunity to obtain your 737 type rating with zero experience, and offered a job on a silver platter. You can't expect every employer to do that. Roll up the sleeves princess and get it done.

[Airbrake]

Agreed. This is the airline that laid off 400+ pilots out of spite just as things were spooling up after Covid. They won’t carry any extra bodies if we’re overstaffed and will lay off in a heartbeat is my expectation. They run very lean.

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling that program will disappear now that the age 67 proposal in the US is officially shot down. It is costing WJ a lot of money to keep the AR program going, and will only increase every year as more choose not to retire.

It isn’t officially dead yet. There is a bill from Lindsay Graham trying to keep it alive.

https://news.bgov.com/bloomberg-governm ... om-johnson

[Airbrake]

Agreed. This is the airline that laid off 400+ pilots out of spite just as things were spooling up after Covid. They won’t carry any extra bodies if we’re overstaffed and will lay off in a heartbeat is my expectation. They run very lean.

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling that program will disappear now that the age 67 proposal in the US is officially shot down. It is costing WJ a lot of money to keep the AR program going, and will only increase every year as more choose not to retire.

It isn’t officially dead yet. There is a bill from Lindsay Graham trying to keep it alive.

https://news.bgov.com/bloomberg-governm ... om-johnson

[JungleRiot]

If there's layoffs then it'll go by seniority number just like it always has been in all airlines ... You're crazy if you believe that a 2018 DOH cadet with 2000 hours on the 737 without his ATPL will get laid off before a 2023 OTS WJ hire ...

Does anyone have the exact total number of pilots that were laid off during covid? Just curious...

[330heavy]

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling that program will disappear now that the age 67 proposal in the US is officially shot down. It is costing WJ a lot of money to keep the AR program going, and will only increase every year as more choose not to retire.

It isn’t officially dead yet. There is a bill from Lindsay Graham trying to keep it alive.

https://news.bgov.com/bloomberg-governm ... om-johnson

Funny enough the bill is more alive than Lindsay Graham

[FurHat]

If that's the case, then the ARs should have to go first.

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling that program will disappear now that the age 67 proposal in the US is officially shot down. It is costing WJ a lot of money to keep the AR program going, and will only increase every year as more choose not to retire.

It isn’t officially dead yet. There is a bill from Lindsay Graham trying to keep it alive.

https://news.bgov.com/bloomberg-governm ... om-johnson

The bill passed the Senate yesterday without the 67 amendment. It's over.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/09/poli ... nistration

[QKZXKV]

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling that program will disappear now that the age 67 proposal in the US is officially shot down. It is costing WJ a lot of money to keep the AR program going, and will only increase every year as more choose not to retire.

It isn’t officially dead yet. There is a bill from Lindsay Graham trying to keep it alive.

https://news.bgov.com/bloomberg-governm ... om-johnson

The bill passed the Senate yesterday without the 67 amendment. It's over.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/09/poli ... nistration

Thank f*** for that