HuD 91gt wrote:From what I see in the ad, they are looking for an FO. These positions are given to 200hr pilots all over Canada.

From the beginning, I was just asking why they had such high minimums, when similar jobs could be had with much less experience(Time on type wise). This question was answered in the above post.

I guess that's the thing...it's not a similar position. It's like comparing a aersotar charter pilot to a aerostar bird dog pilot at Conair. The Aerostar charter pilot requires maybe 1500 hours, while the bird dog pilot can't get the job without at least 3000, usually more. They are not similar. You may be in the same type of aircraft, but it's a new way of of flying, and it's good to have someone with good hands and feet. Training a new survey pilot often takes in excess of 30 hours flight time. the higher the experience, the better the hands and feet (usually), so the less training req'd, and higher degree of accuracy on the line flying. A 200 hour pilot usually finds it very difficult to handle a new significantly larger, faster, type (compared with a 172) in a new application to boot. It's not the standard IFR flying you have been trained for, as in a 703 cargo/charter company.

HuD 91gt wrote: Point taken, but as the ad states, no where does it say FO needed for quick upgrade. Or something similar. From what I see in the ad, they are looking for an FO.

It's survey...you will be captain in probably less than a year, as long as you perform well. btw, I don't work for this company, just have years of experience in the survey biz.

Don't forget, insurance underwriters will want someone with experience at the helm considering the type of flying and the remote locations that survey companies work.

People either love or hate survey, it is a lifestyle choice. Have more than once seen guys leave survey to go to the regionals, and then come back to survey because they preferred the work (and the better $$).

Good company to work for, pay is more than most king air captains make...if you include per diem, plus the upgrade time is quick. Good way to get some Multi-PIC

Dust Devil wrote: If you ask me it sounds like small di** syndrome

I'll show you mine if you show me yours

I don't think this is an approved SOP in a two crew environment.

[quote]Good company to work for, pay is more than most king air captains make...if you include per diem, plus the upgrade time is quick. Good way to get some Multi-PIC[/quote]

+1

Dust Devil wrote:Is there a list out there that dictates what job is higher up the so called ranks as another?

For lower time guys like I am guessing you are

-Ramp/dock
-Swamper (time not loggable)
-Instructor it is wrong but it is true
-FO in a piston twin flying short haul sked in the South( ie only go to the same 3 or 4 places)
-FO in a turbine single
-FO in a piston twin flying charter in the North
-FO in a piston twin flying specialty Ops, like survey
-PIC in a single flying in the bush
-FO in a turbine twin flying short haul sked in the South
-FO in a turbine twin flying charter in the North
-FO in a turbine twin flying specialty ops
-PIC on floats
-FO on a 705 airplane

ps: be careful what you wish for. Getting that Navajo captain gig is no joke if you don't have the experience to handle what ever comes up. FO time is an invaluable way to learn the real world of commercial ops, and very little of your CPL and MEIFR training has much relevance to what you really need to know.....

Downtown wrote:I'm wondering why they need a co-pilot for survey work. I fly a Navajo on LIDAR and Mag surveys. The mag surveys are done at 300 - 400' AGL in the mountains sometimes and we operate single crew. No operator or co-pilot. Just one person in the plane, the pilot. Is it perhaps an insurance thing?

It will depend on its difficulty.
Surveys are not always done above isolated flat areas.
Their locations (worldwide) can be very challenging at the time and requiring a lot of coordination with local governments, ATC, military, etc.. Add to it busy airspace where you will be just like a bowling ball thrown into the departure/arrival paths of main airports. Sometime even if they are fully aware of your request, it can be a none stop talking and bargaining on the radio until they get really used to you. Remember, it is not about only flying in Canada or in the States.


The main reason I see them asking for a minimum of 1000hrs to be F/O on their Navajos is for a quick upgrade.
Others ones requiring someone sitting in the right seat for this type of aircraft and operation could be:
-Taking care of the on board survey system, replacing the operator sitting in the back while having at the same time another set of eyes looking out.
-Insurances purpose.
-Client's requirement to have two pilots on board at all time.
-As mentioned, difficulty of the survey. Terrain, airspace density, etc...



Pretty much a safety thing.

Can someone confirm for me whether the F/O's for Goldak (or other survey operators) sit 'side saddle' in the back monitoring computer equipment? We hired an ex survey F/O who seemed to know nothing about the same plane he had supposedly flown 500 hours in.

seniorpumpkin wrote:Can someone confirm for me whether the F/O's for Goldak (or other survey operators) sit 'side saddle' in the back monitoring computer equipment? We hired an ex survey F/O who seemed to know nothing about the same plane he had supposedly flown 500 hours in.

Worked there, the co-pilot sites in the right seat, shares flying duties 50/50 and is also responsible for the survey equipment. Heads up though, the operation is technically single pilot, you are there for insurance reasons alone. They don't give you a PCC and you can't technically log the time. That being said, the money is great.

My experience with survey with a co-pilot has been that the co-pilot shares the duties with the other pilot just like it would be in a two crew airplane even when it's something like a Caravan or an Islander. Alternate turns for take offs and landings, and usually switch flying the survey line every 30 to 60 minutes. Where I was the survey equipment was pretty much automated and just needed a quick check every 10-15 minutes, and whoever was not flying would take a peak at the system, but we had a screen up front so it didn't involve leaving your seat.