Police cars at Fast Air
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Thanks for being honest pilot350 and letting people know what really goes on.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
I have a buddy there in maintenance who I remember told me the DOM that got fired was canned because he was both egotistical and inept, and that the entire maintenance department was thrilled to see him go. He also said parts were being ordered by the DOM to be changed that weren't broken, and that staff had grown very frustrated with him and became unproductive. Apperently the accident happened in Tadoule Lake which from what I hear is a terrible strip, and that the weather was sketchy. Can any pilots comment on what Tadoule is like? Just being the devil's advocate here.
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
I have talked to people there and not getting 3rd hand information.
As I understand, TC was not there specifically for the king air accident. they were there investigating some maintenance records. They recently fired an AME who has since done his best to spread rumors and innuendo about his former employers. From what I hear, it wouldn't surprise me if this person didn't stop at whining to his new coworkers and picked up the phone to TC also.
From what I know about the King Air accident up north, it did not happen due to pushing the duty days. I believe the crew was off for at least a day before it happened. My understanding is that they lost control of the aircraft on an icy runway. There was substantial damage to the plane but no injuries. I have heard about their duty day calculation. I don't think it is right but from what I understand, it was not a contributing factor.
My friend there tells me that he has never taken an unsafe aircraft and that they have a far bigger maintenance department than most companies. They really don't strike me as a fly by night outfit.
As I understand, TC was not there specifically for the king air accident. they were there investigating some maintenance records. They recently fired an AME who has since done his best to spread rumors and innuendo about his former employers. From what I hear, it wouldn't surprise me if this person didn't stop at whining to his new coworkers and picked up the phone to TC also.
From what I know about the King Air accident up north, it did not happen due to pushing the duty days. I believe the crew was off for at least a day before it happened. My understanding is that they lost control of the aircraft on an icy runway. There was substantial damage to the plane but no injuries. I have heard about their duty day calculation. I don't think it is right but from what I understand, it was not a contributing factor.
My friend there tells me that he has never taken an unsafe aircraft and that they have a far bigger maintenance department than most companies. They really don't strike me as a fly by night outfit.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
I have some friends flying there. Was anyone hurt in the accident?
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
In a Province with operators like Keyst*ne, and Missi*nair, it is actually funny to hear that Fast Air is on Transport's radar at all!!
I worked at Fast Air long enough to know it's one of the best 703/704 operators out there. Every smallish operation has disgruntled former employees. I'm usually one of the biggest whiners there is, but Fast Air was the best job I've ever had in aviation. I did MedEvac as well, and I was NEVER asked to push my duty day. EVER. The calculation that was quoted here by pilot350 is, for better or worse pretty much the standard. Transport is STILL trying to figure out how to enforce "on call" vs "reserve" pilots doing 24hr MedEvac. They have failed miserably thus far. It comes down to "self regulation", and as a crew, I never flew fatigued, or in such a way that I couldn't back it up with the CARS if need be.
After the last 12 years (I believe that's how long Fast has been around), they have had one accident due to an icy runway in the North. These things should never be inevitable, but they do happen. In those past 12 years, look at the accident record of Keystone, Perimeter, Missionair etc etc.
Bottom line, someone will always squawk about maintenance, or duty days, or the fact that the boss didn't pat their ass enough. Fast Air is a classy operation, and people at Transport, even in YWG, know that and have said as much. But nobody's perfect.
I worked at Fast Air long enough to know it's one of the best 703/704 operators out there. Every smallish operation has disgruntled former employees. I'm usually one of the biggest whiners there is, but Fast Air was the best job I've ever had in aviation. I did MedEvac as well, and I was NEVER asked to push my duty day. EVER. The calculation that was quoted here by pilot350 is, for better or worse pretty much the standard. Transport is STILL trying to figure out how to enforce "on call" vs "reserve" pilots doing 24hr MedEvac. They have failed miserably thus far. It comes down to "self regulation", and as a crew, I never flew fatigued, or in such a way that I couldn't back it up with the CARS if need be.
After the last 12 years (I believe that's how long Fast has been around), they have had one accident due to an icy runway in the North. These things should never be inevitable, but they do happen. In those past 12 years, look at the accident record of Keystone, Perimeter, Missionair etc etc.
Bottom line, someone will always squawk about maintenance, or duty days, or the fact that the boss didn't pat their ass enough. Fast Air is a classy operation, and people at Transport, even in YWG, know that and have said as much. But nobody's perfect.
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
...why aren't the Keystone Clowns buried yet? Are they still doing 1/8 sm take-offs?They will do what they can to bury you.

Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Maybe the people we were dealing with are gone now. Maybe the operator you're talking about has alot of very good lawyers.
The guy I was working with had his lawyer on speedial. He fought a 500$ fine once that was legit. I mean, TC caught him with "his hand in the cookie" jar as it were.
I asked why the hell would you spend that much money to fight a little fine like that. His awswer...."you fight like hell evertime those fu**ing co**suckers call...every fu**ing time!! Then they'll think twice about calling!!!"
Seemed to work for him to a certain extent. Maybe some people at TC are just close enough to retirement that they don't want to open some cans of worms.
Just my .02.
Cheers,
ETTW
The guy I was working with had his lawyer on speedial. He fought a 500$ fine once that was legit. I mean, TC caught him with "his hand in the cookie" jar as it were.
I asked why the hell would you spend that much money to fight a little fine like that. His awswer...."you fight like hell evertime those fu**ing co**suckers call...every fu**ing time!! Then they'll think twice about calling!!!"
Seemed to work for him to a certain extent. Maybe some people at TC are just close enough to retirement that they don't want to open some cans of worms.
Just my .02.
Cheers,
ETTW
1. The company pays me to make money for it.
2. If the company doesn't make money neither do I
3. I still hate simulators
2. If the company doesn't make money neither do I
3. I still hate simulators
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Tadoulie lake can be a challenging field, But I dont think it is unsafe nor do i think it should increase the risk of operation into it. Tadoulie has a steep hill over almost all of the runway with the exception of the threshold at the top of the hill (mabey around 3%, possibly as high as 5%) and the roll out area at the ramp. I have had my most difficult approach ever here, riding shotgun with ., but that was a weather related issue. Like anyhting else in aviation if you are aware of the risks and respect the fields annomolies, You will do fine. The pre threshold areas are very clear and Tadoulie is well maintained, So I would say it not a dangerous airport, just a little difficult at times.
Even staying within the law, after 12 years of operations, there will be an incident at some point, there are too many variables in flying to account for every eventuality. I would hope everyone measures Fast Air as much on how the deal with the situation as the unforunate situation in the first place.
Regards
Even staying within the law, after 12 years of operations, there will be an incident at some point, there are too many variables in flying to account for every eventuality. I would hope everyone measures Fast Air as much on how the deal with the situation as the unforunate situation in the first place.
Regards
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
I am Birddog wrote:MrWings wrote:This may be good news for the Leafs.
They are next expected to win the Cup when pigs fly.
...you owe me 10$ for dry cleaning cranberry & vodka out of my pants when I spit it out after reading your post...
Thank you both...I laughed out loud for almost five minutes...I needed that today.

Plus just to make a point...the Leafs kicked Edmontons ass last night...Go Leafs Go!

~FOX~
p.s. Sorry for being completely off topic.
Hang Time Is The Best Time!
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
I'll through my two sense in here too as a former employee. That mechanic mentioned earlier was a good honest mechanic that I trusted. He was told to sign a plane out that he didn't feel was airworthy and promptly got fired for a "bad attitude". The bottom line is the company is CHEAP and if you don't "tow the company line", bye bye! It was like pulling teeth trying to get a plane fixed properly. They are a good company though for the most part. I've seen alot worse. The people right up too and including the chief pilot and dfo are great and have the right attitude. Upper managment has a thing or two to learn.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
MrWings Highly Generalized Aviation Economics
1. Company/Owner/Shareholder Profit
2. Quality Maintenance
3. Well Paid Happy Pilots
Pick any two out of the three
1. Company/Owner/Shareholder Profit
2. Quality Maintenance
3. Well Paid Happy Pilots
Pick any two out of the three
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Even for Avcanada this thread is really difficult to understand what happened in this case.
I have no problem understanding the back and forth claims posted by people who could anyone anywhere and just guessing, but this bit still seems strange.
What in hell is aviation coming to when the regulator has to have a police escort to back them up, is it getting like the New York waterfront now in commercial aviation?
I have no problem understanding the back and forth claims posted by people who could anyone anywhere and just guessing, but this bit still seems strange.
Is it now normal procedure for TCCA to request a police escort when they show up at an aviation company to do an investigation of documents?
TC showed up with warrants and police escort to back it up. They are going through all of Fast Air's documents.
What in hell is aviation coming to when the regulator has to have a police escort to back them up, is it getting like the New York waterfront now in commercial aviation?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Interestingly we had the same medevac schedule at Skyward, and everyone knows what happened to them. We asked management to change it a number of times because it's crazy to be on duty and refreshing at the same time but they wouldn't go for it.
I wonder if having that schedule is representative of an entire management culture (right up to the owners) of pushing everything to the limit and into the gray areas of the CARS and beyond. It certainly was at Skyward.
Also, when I was in Manitoba I only heard good things about Fast Air. Actually, I even considered a move to Fast Air since it would have been a step up.
Have the owners changed in the past few years?
I wonder if having that schedule is representative of an entire management culture (right up to the owners) of pushing everything to the limit and into the gray areas of the CARS and beyond. It certainly was at Skyward.
Also, when I was in Manitoba I only heard good things about Fast Air. Actually, I even considered a move to Fast Air since it would have been a step up.
Have the owners changed in the past few years?
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Not too sure about this particular case, but here are some links with information related to the use of search warrants and peace officers:
Aeronautics Act - 8.7(1) Powers to enter, seize and detain
Criminal Code - Information for search warrant
Aviation Enforcement Policy Manual Chapter 6 - Investigations
Aeronautics Act - 8.7(1) Powers to enter, seize and detain
Criminal Code - Information for search warrant
Aviation Enforcement Policy Manual Chapter 6 - Investigations
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
CD the law is quite straight forward and not in the least ambiguous.
What I was wondering about is how does it get to the place where a company that goes through all the hoops to get approval to operate an air service get to the place where TCCA think they need the police to protect them when they are covered by a search warrant?
What I was wondering about is how does it get to the place where a company that goes through all the hoops to get approval to operate an air service get to the place where TCCA think they need the police to protect them when they are covered by a search warrant?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Cat here's the scoop
Wednesday, TC and Police show up with warrant. Walk into building and say "step away from your computer". Electronic and paper docs seized. Server data copied. Some aircraft operate Wed. and Thurs.
Friday, O.C. is temporarily suspended.
I guess they found more than porn on those hard drives.
I can't figure out why these companies build expensive facilities and then when things get tight, they start cutting the basics. They aren't the first company to do this and end up in this situation.
Wednesday, TC and Police show up with warrant. Walk into building and say "step away from your computer". Electronic and paper docs seized. Server data copied. Some aircraft operate Wed. and Thurs.
Friday, O.C. is temporarily suspended.
I guess they found more than porn on those hard drives.
I can't figure out why these companies build expensive facilities and then when things get tight, they start cutting the basics. They aren't the first company to do this and end up in this situation.
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
That is quite interesting if I decide to go back to work and want some excitement I don't have to go back to Africa....Canada has now got to the point where you need an armed guard to protect you...
Wonderful.
By the way is only TC that needs armed guards to accompany them while performing their duties or do civilians also need to get some?
That was Winnipeg right, not Luanda or Lagos?
Wonderful.
By the way is only TC that needs armed guards to accompany them while performing their duties or do civilians also need to get some?
That was Winnipeg right, not Luanda or Lagos?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Nobody said they needed the police for their weapons Cat.
Going for the deck at corner
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Of course not, how dumb of me.
The police in Winnipeg carry flowers and candy to make sure everyone acts nice.
The police in Winnipeg carry flowers and candy to make sure everyone acts nice.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
They do carry weapons, but I think the police was there more to enforce the warrant than to provide personal protection to TC inspectors...Cat Driver wrote:Of course not, how dumb of me.
The police in Winnipeg carry flowers and candy to make sure everyone acts nice.
Going for the deck at corner
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
O.K. fair enough, I really have lost track of how things are done in Canada not having worked in aviation here for many tears.They do carry weapons, but I think the police was there more to enforce the warrant than to provide personal protection to TC inspectors...
So aviation in Canada has now come to the place where TC always shows up with the police to enforce the law?
I think I'll be comfortable now that I'm back, all I have to get used to is the Glocks instead of AK47's.
Neat.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Well, as far as I know, this is the police job, to enforce the law. TC's job is to enforce Aviation Regulations.Cat Driver wrote: So aviation in Canada has now come to the place where TC always shows up with the police to enforce the law?
Going for the deck at corner
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Hey AuxBatOn...whatever.
Just seems third country to me...but what do I know, huh?
Just seems third country to me...but what do I know, huh?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Police cars at Fast Air
If it's so 3ish country to you, why do you even stay here and bitch about it????
Going for the deck at corner
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Re: Police cars at Fast Air
Because I am a citizen who spent most his life working in Canada and paid my taxes until TCCA decided I couldn't work here. Now that I am old enough to collect my government old age pension and C.P.P. I have to justify to you why I live here?If it's so 3ish country to you, why do you even stay here and bitch about it????
Speaking of TC and the law, it was TCCA who violated the law and my rights to work in Canada.
AuxBatOn..we have nothing in common so lets just ignore each others posts..O.K.?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.