Ah well well.....someone's true motives are starting to show. It's not about the competition at all right? Give me a break.Gilles Hudicourt wrote:What's next ? Sunwing will pay less taxes on aviation fuel than Air Transat does ?
Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
A simulator used full time can generate one pilot per day on average if it's doing nothing but initial courses.photofly wrote:Can I ask an idle question?Are there enough training places for 119 pilots in time for one season? How many 737 type ratings can a typical training organisation issue in one year?There are 119 Canadian pilots that would have obtained a 737 rating last fall had Sunwing not obtained those LMOs.
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Unlike certain people, I will never feign stupidity to try to make a point.
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Realitychex,
Seriously, your comparing an Airline to a Tour-operator?? There's a big difference to WJ selling $199 air fares per person to SWG's $1500 1 week vacation per person. Hence the larger Revenue and profit margins versus a traditional scheduled airline per aircraft ratio. The only thing that smells here is your lack of understanding with regards to Airline vs Tour-operator economics.
Incorrect, all TUI filed reports indicate SWG as Canadian operations (as its the only company owned in Canada, for the time being). Take that number multiply by 2 and convert to CAD$. Simple
This applies to 737NG type rated only.
Seriously, your comparing an Airline to a Tour-operator?? There's a big difference to WJ selling $199 air fares per person to SWG's $1500 1 week vacation per person. Hence the larger Revenue and profit margins versus a traditional scheduled airline per aircraft ratio. The only thing that smells here is your lack of understanding with regards to Airline vs Tour-operator economics.
confusedalot,Sunwing made a net profit of $71m last year by operating a couple of dozen -800's for 6 months in the winter and about half as many tails in the summer on chronically low yield routes, including a wet lease wide body to Europe, and WJ made $241m by operating an average of about 95 jets year round?
Something doesn't smell right here.
Incorrect, all TUI filed reports indicate SWG as Canadian operations (as its the only company owned in Canada, for the time being). Take that number multiply by 2 and convert to CAD$. Simple
YYCcrew,That sounds like alot of profit. Hard to verify since TUI only posts net performance results without detailing the numbers of individual business units.
This applies to 737NG type rated only.
Gilles,but apparently SW is now offering $15,000 signing bonuses for a one year commitment...
I sincerely hope this changes for you guys, but this differential has very little to do with bring in Foreign pilots. It goes much deeper than that with in your companyIn 2012 Transat lost 50 million dollars. Sunwing declared earning 71 million dollars.
as you clearly pointed out. TS needs major internal change my friend, not SWG's fault.The 119 LMO, even at $40,000 each, would have cost Sunwing 4.76 million, leaving them with 66 million in profit.
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
I couldn't agree more, TS does need to find efficiencies in this operation, the downside is that they are looking at the Sunwing model of dependence of foreign crew which scares me..OPEC6-Heavy wrote: I sincerely hope this changes for you guys, but this differential has very little to do with bring in Foreign pilots. It goes much deeper than that with in your companyas you clearly pointed out. TS needs major internal change my friend, not SWG's fault.The 119 LMO, even at $40,000 each, would have cost Sunwing 4.76 million, leaving them with 66 million in profit.
Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Air Transat has now joined the Foreign pilot show and they are not going to back peddle or change things when they know they will profit on it, either will they care about guys on lay off status etc. if they cared they would have paid to get them rated on a 737NG and done some sort of agreement with CJ when they went into agreement with them in 2009.
Gilles and the TS guys are very concerned about the foreign pilots because a great part of it has to do with their jobs being compromised or replaced. SWG is the enemy because they found a loophole and they are growing as a company and profiting.
What if Transat made 71 million profit? Would there be objections? What if Transat made so much money in profit that they expanded? They might do that but will they expand with Canadian pilots? I highly doubt that's their game plan. They want what SWG has. Profit at the least expense.
You Air Transat guys should be figuring out what you are going to do when you get notified that foreign pilots will be operating during busy seasons. Will you strike over it? Will ALPA stop it from happening? We know the answer to that.
I will keep telling you guys, it's not going to change. Doesn't mean I agree with it or like it, it means it's something that may get changed, but no time soon. By the time the red tape gets unravelled I'll be retired and so will a lot of the wide body Air Transat pilots. It's a friggin sad reality!
Gilles and the TS guys are very concerned about the foreign pilots because a great part of it has to do with their jobs being compromised or replaced. SWG is the enemy because they found a loophole and they are growing as a company and profiting.
What if Transat made 71 million profit? Would there be objections? What if Transat made so much money in profit that they expanded? They might do that but will they expand with Canadian pilots? I highly doubt that's their game plan. They want what SWG has. Profit at the least expense.
You Air Transat guys should be figuring out what you are going to do when you get notified that foreign pilots will be operating during busy seasons. Will you strike over it? Will ALPA stop it from happening? We know the answer to that.
I will keep telling you guys, it's not going to change. Doesn't mean I agree with it or like it, it means it's something that may get changed, but no time soon. By the time the red tape gets unravelled I'll be retired and so will a lot of the wide body Air Transat pilots. It's a friggin sad reality!
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Okay easy there Trudeau.Gilles Hudicourt wrote:Just watch us!
Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
As much as I admire Gilles Hudicourts ambition and tenacity, his fight isn't about canadian pilots people. His fight is about Transat versus Sunwing. His job and career are at stake and he's fighting for that only. He's using the "canadian only" ploy to build steam to secure his future.
Fact remains that our economy is dependant on both domestic and foreign workers. Who do you thinks picks your vegetables in the summer? They aren't Canadian thats for sure, because no canadian would pick them for the wage that farmers offer. Your vegetables would be a lot more if they did.
Fact remains that our economy is dependant on both domestic and foreign workers. Who do you thinks picks your vegetables in the summer? They aren't Canadian thats for sure, because no canadian would pick them for the wage that farmers offer. Your vegetables would be a lot more if they did.
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Gilles,
I've seen enough. The amateur videos made in Piche's basement was the icing on the cake.Just watch us!
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
You guys are actually getting quite funny......you can really start to see the desperation.OPEC6-Heavy wrote:Gilles,I've seen enough. The amateur videos made in Piche's basement was the icing on the cake.Just watch us!
Not for anything but when you're quoting Ghandi and trying to act like the Canadian aviation hero, Trudeau or whatever......at least wear a tie and comb your hair when you're on National Television.
Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
I'm pretty sure you're the same guy behind 3 different names. Why don't you start an honourable thread lobbying for foreign pilots?
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Gladly when our "aviation hero" finally admits its really always been about Transat vs. Sunwing.Gravol wrote:I'm pretty sure you're the same guy behind 3 different names. Why don't you start an honourable thread lobbying for foreign pilots?
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
av8tor_assrope wrote:Gladly when our "aviation hero" finally admits its really always been about Transat vs. Sunwing.Gravol wrote:I'm pretty sure you're the same guy behind 3 different names. Why don't you start an honourable thread lobbying for foreign pilots?
What a crook, this is about every young Pilot in Canada watching Bottom Feeder Airlines abuse the rules. While they sit unemployed !
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
What an annoying little troll you are. Please, just stop typing.av8tor_assrope wrote:Gladly when our "aviation hero" finally admits its really always been about Transat vs. Sunwing.Gravol wrote:I'm pretty sure you're the same guy behind 3 different names. Why don't you start an honourable thread lobbying for foreign pilots?
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
NO....he is trying to secure YOUR future too!lelantos wrote:As much as I admire Gilles Hudicourts ambition and tenacity, his fight isn't about canadian pilots people. His fight is about Transat versus Sunwing. His job and career are at stake and he's fighting for that only. He's using the "canadian only" ploy to build steam to secure his future.
Looks like we have another issue that may cause a further decline in Canadian pilots' ability to make a decent living....
From this morning's paper...
"Consumer group calls for more airline competition
The Consumers' Association of Canada is calling for the federal government to allow more competition from foreign airlines. The group says Canada's current policy protects the dominant domestic airlines and limits consumer choice. A Harris/Decima survey found 61 percent of respondents said foreign airlines should be allowed to compete with Canadian carriers."
Wonder where that will lead us!
John
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
My clothes, my hair......av8tor_assrope wrote:....at least wear a tie and comb your hair when you're on National Television.
What do you think about foreign pilots working at the controls of Canadian aircraft?
I had a red tie today and combed my hair especially for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6sJZKh7 ... e=youtu.be
Last time I had a two hour notice and was not going to refuse an interview on national TV for lack of a manicure. Now that I know how important these important issues are to you.....
Seriously, drop AvCanada and write letters to the Editor of People magazine. It's more in your line.
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
I'm still stuck on the 71K sunwing profit. OPEC says that it's all reported in proper form.
So OPEC 6 HEAVY,.......
For our education, can you please post the TUI link where the Canadian operations actually did make this reported profit?
I gots lots of troubles with the internets..........
So OPEC 6 HEAVY,.......
For our education, can you please post the TUI link where the Canadian operations actually did make this reported profit?
I gots lots of troubles with the internets..........
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Sorry, I meant 71M, as in million.
Like I says, I gots trouble with the internets......
Like I says, I gots trouble with the internets......
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Not 100% sure about the $70 million figure but from page 40 of the TUI Travel PLC Annual Report and Accounts 2012 which you can find here....
http://www.tuitravelplc.com/investors-m ... sentations
TUI earned "$21 million operating profit" from its Canadian operations with the fiscal year ending September 2012. The Sunwing Travel Group makes up 100% of TUI's Canadian operations. TUI has a 49% ownership stake in Sunwing Travel. So based on this, we can at least assume that from September 2011 - September 2012, the Sunwing Travel Group made a $42 million operating profit. September is the beginning of the winter travel season and when most of the cash goes out the door to book transportation and hotels for the upcoming season. If Sunwing records its financials January - January, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that Sunwing earned a $70 million profit for 2012.
http://www.tuitravelplc.com/investors-m ... sentations
TUI earned "$21 million operating profit" from its Canadian operations with the fiscal year ending September 2012. The Sunwing Travel Group makes up 100% of TUI's Canadian operations. TUI has a 49% ownership stake in Sunwing Travel. So based on this, we can at least assume that from September 2011 - September 2012, the Sunwing Travel Group made a $42 million operating profit. September is the beginning of the winter travel season and when most of the cash goes out the door to book transportation and hotels for the upcoming season. If Sunwing records its financials January - January, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that Sunwing earned a $70 million profit for 2012.
Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
The 21Million is GBP £ not CDN $.
So if £21,000,000.00 is the TUi portion... ~ £42,840,000.00 would be the total profit.
Today's conversion is $1.57CDN to the £ according to
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cdn+to+p ... 24&bih=672
£42,840,000.00 =~ $67111430.4
So if £21,000,000.00 is the TUi portion... ~ £42,840,000.00 would be the total profit.
Today's conversion is $1.57CDN to the £ according to
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cdn+to+p ... 24&bih=672
£42,840,000.00 =~ $67111430.4
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Sunwing is a private company, so until THEY open THEIR books its all speculation.
TUI Canada made money, but there seems to be more than just Sunwing. For example they also own Breakaway Tours which is a student travel company, so where do all these companies fit into the TUI Canada pie? How many more are there? Seems as though this company is a prime example of the "Shell game".
I am not throwing stones or trying to start a fight, just don't believe Sunwing itself made $71M, show me the books!!! Remember Signature Vacations was losing money before they were bought.
We are all pawns in this chess game!
TUI Canada made money, but there seems to be more than just Sunwing. For example they also own Breakaway Tours which is a student travel company, so where do all these companies fit into the TUI Canada pie? How many more are there? Seems as though this company is a prime example of the "Shell game".
I am not throwing stones or trying to start a fight, just don't believe Sunwing itself made $71M, show me the books!!! Remember Signature Vacations was losing money before they were bought.
We are all pawns in this chess game!
Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
You are correct. You and I will never know. However when people associated with the company are making public statements of profitability such as the link Gilles posted and the TUi financials indicate that there are profits... That's a pretty good indication that they are making money.
Each year more and more seats are being offered in the market place by Sunwing. More aircraft... And finally more Canadian Pilots are being hired. Lets see THAT trend continue. Good stable year round employment offered by a profitable company equates to long term employment are my thoughts. As a Canadian pilot who has seen my career path take the off ramp more than once, I am quite happy to be riding on this horse.
Incidentally, I well remember being a wide body Captain and being out of work due to an airline failure...only to see in the following year the same passengers being flown by a foreign carrier which was code sharing with Air Transat. Was very demoralizing to be on EI and see the work go overseas. Although I had a current A310 Type Rating and Captain's PPC .... I was not qualified to break into the Quebec market as a Canadian English only speaking pilot back in 2002. This is the way it goes sometimes.
Each year more and more seats are being offered in the market place by Sunwing. More aircraft... And finally more Canadian Pilots are being hired. Lets see THAT trend continue. Good stable year round employment offered by a profitable company equates to long term employment are my thoughts. As a Canadian pilot who has seen my career path take the off ramp more than once, I am quite happy to be riding on this horse.
Incidentally, I well remember being a wide body Captain and being out of work due to an airline failure...only to see in the following year the same passengers being flown by a foreign carrier which was code sharing with Air Transat. Was very demoralizing to be on EI and see the work go overseas. Although I had a current A310 Type Rating and Captain's PPC .... I was not qualified to break into the Quebec market as a Canadian English only speaking pilot back in 2002. This is the way it goes sometimes.
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Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
Comment removed as it is off topic and discriminatory.ea306 wrote: Incidentally, I well remember being a wide body Captain and being out of work due to an airline failure...only to see in the following year the same passengers being flown by a foreign carrier which was code sharing with Air Transat. Was very demoralizing to be on EI and see the work go overseas. Although I had a current A310 Type Rating and Captain's PPC .... I was not qualified to break into the Quebec market as a Canadian English only speaking pilot back in 2002. This is the way it goes sometimes.
Bandaid
Re: Sunwing declares profits of 71 million last year
av8tor_assrope
You are going over board.
Comment removed
You are going over board.
Comment removed