Interesting that the Iranians; are saying that the "six times""
Was any warning Given ???
It is difficult to think that they would be wrong six times in a row or a row
Do the Iranians really want the rules of engagement to include 'No warnings to be given before action ???'
hmmmm....the Persian gulf.....the gulf of Tonkin.
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6506361.stmThe prime minister's spokesman said: "What is important is that Iran knows that it is isolated on this issue. "We are not seeking to put Iran in a corner. We are simply saying, 'please release the personnel who should not have been seized in the first place'."
Jeeeezuz... get me 500 cc's of testosterone and the defibrillator... STAT!
I am in no way commenting on this event, however I want clear something up for the veiwing public.
Rules of Engagement are set forth before each mission, and each mission has its own rules. Follow?
As an example: A convoy may have its ROE changed from one day to the other, depending on the circumstances.
ROE for all missions are a "need to know" basis, so the media and internet speculation, is just that.
I hope this concludes my period of instruction.
Rules of Engagement are set forth before each mission, and each mission has its own rules. Follow?
As an example: A convoy may have its ROE changed from one day to the other, depending on the circumstances.
ROE for all missions are a "need to know" basis, so the media and internet speculation, is just that.
I hope this concludes my period of instruction.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
2R -------Rules of Enagement? What gives you the idea that they are operating or observing any Rules for anything unless it is some rules set down by the Mullahs. You speak as though you are talking about military people vaguely similiar to what you might see in our part of the world.
Let me explain the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for selection into the Iranian Armed Forces. The average applicant will have the equal to a Canadian Grade 6 education. There will also be a small collection of those with more education of course........as high as a Canadian Grade 9. Out of this group of applicants must be selected Aviation Techs and potential pilots for training. Know who gets to go to pilot training?..........those with Grade 6. The more educated ones (Grade 9's) get to enter into training as Aviation Techs. Now why would that be like that? It's that way because they want the smarter, more educated ones doing the fixing and solving problems and the less educated ones are considered expendable. How do I know this? At one time, many years ago I worked contract, together with many others, for Bell/Textron Int'l training prospective F/W & R/W pilots for the Iranian Air Force. The other Services choose their applicants in the exact same way.
We went months and nobody had flown solo yet because they weren't qualified to and finally we were all called "en masse" to come into Tehran to have a meeting with the US Ambassador. We were all advised at that time that we would start granting permissions to go solo "or else". That is exactly what we did when we arrived back at our field. For the next month 6 out of every 10 pilots authorized to fly solo crashed, totalled the a/c and died. In that first month the Air Force lost 75 a/c and pilots and I submitted my resignation soon after and returned home. "The inmates had taken over the asylum" as far as I was concerned and I didn't want to be part of it any longer. So please don't speak of "Rules of Engagement" with this crowd and don't compare them in any way to the products that graduate from Miramar, the Canadian F-18 pilots or any products from the RAF.
DO NOT in any way, shape or form take the above as a "put down" of Iranian poeople. I have many, many very good and close friends in that country. Grade 6 or Grade 9 education doesn't really qualify you to do much in today's world, that's all.
Let me explain the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for selection into the Iranian Armed Forces. The average applicant will have the equal to a Canadian Grade 6 education. There will also be a small collection of those with more education of course........as high as a Canadian Grade 9. Out of this group of applicants must be selected Aviation Techs and potential pilots for training. Know who gets to go to pilot training?..........those with Grade 6. The more educated ones (Grade 9's) get to enter into training as Aviation Techs. Now why would that be like that? It's that way because they want the smarter, more educated ones doing the fixing and solving problems and the less educated ones are considered expendable. How do I know this? At one time, many years ago I worked contract, together with many others, for Bell/Textron Int'l training prospective F/W & R/W pilots for the Iranian Air Force. The other Services choose their applicants in the exact same way.
We went months and nobody had flown solo yet because they weren't qualified to and finally we were all called "en masse" to come into Tehran to have a meeting with the US Ambassador. We were all advised at that time that we would start granting permissions to go solo "or else". That is exactly what we did when we arrived back at our field. For the next month 6 out of every 10 pilots authorized to fly solo crashed, totalled the a/c and died. In that first month the Air Force lost 75 a/c and pilots and I submitted my resignation soon after and returned home. "The inmates had taken over the asylum" as far as I was concerned and I didn't want to be part of it any longer. So please don't speak of "Rules of Engagement" with this crowd and don't compare them in any way to the products that graduate from Miramar, the Canadian F-18 pilots or any products from the RAF.
DO NOT in any way, shape or form take the above as a "put down" of Iranian poeople. I have many, many very good and close friends in that country. Grade 6 or Grade 9 education doesn't really qualify you to do much in today's world, that's all.
Last edited by LH on Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Brits are capable of making rapid changes to the ROE as witnessed by the changes made to the ROE on greenham common when the argies fired a machine gun from under a white flag in the falklands campaign.The orders went out for NO prisoners that day.No white flag recognition and no prisoners until full Unconditional surrender from Argentina.Then the Argie bargie complained that the Brits were being unfair to the UN.
The Brits can play a hard game .The Iranians are mostly conscripts and lack the ability and will to fight for the mad regime in Teheran.
The guys who will make fun in IRANIAN waters will be the SBS .Every bit as hard as the SAS and just as smart only they live in the water.Like a tougher version of the US Navy Seals.They never travel with a film crew or reporters so much of what they do is unknown to outsiders.Having seen what the dive teams are capable of doing.To say that I am impressed would be an understatement to their capabilities.
Will we be seeing the Jolly Rodger flying again soon ???
The Brits can play a hard game .The Iranians are mostly conscripts and lack the ability and will to fight for the mad regime in Teheran.
The guys who will make fun in IRANIAN waters will be the SBS .Every bit as hard as the SAS and just as smart only they live in the water.Like a tougher version of the US Navy Seals.They never travel with a film crew or reporters so much of what they do is unknown to outsiders.Having seen what the dive teams are capable of doing.To say that I am impressed would be an understatement to their capabilities.
Will we be seeing the Jolly Rodger flying again soon ???
2R ------ there will be no scenes as you imagine. If there were going to be, then I ask you this question?..........where was the rest of the gang when the occupants of the Zodiac(s) were captured? They didn't get there from the South Indian Ocean in Zodiacs. Where was the a/c "cover" of ANY description? They were in potentially "hostile" waters even being near the Iranian boundaries and the Brits knew before they went in that the border has been "in question" for over 40 years. If they didn'y know that, then they deserved what happened or something else was at play here. Personally, I haven't seen an item, heard a peep or heard anyone ask or explain where the "rest of the gang" were while all this was taking place. I've seen photos of the supposed ship they embarked from and it ain't no rowboat. Comes with all kinds of missile silos and is bigger than anything we have to date. They also have all the radars and such that would be expected and yet they couldn't forewarn their Zodiacs of encroaching and possibly potential dangers? Even as it's taking place they sit back and do nothing? The Commander of some ship, a First Sea Lord in London and or some British Minister made a wrong decision that's all.
Yeah your are right we are not at war .Yet.Those guys only come out to play in wartime.
Perhaps it is a ploy to get the enemy to engage ???
It is always better if you can get the enemy to start the fight .Even better if they think they have a chance of winning .They come at you faster and walk or run right into the deciding factors.
Perhaps it was just another SNAFU.
Although the diplomats are now seeking an explanation instead of an apology .Cooler heads are now prevailing
6 out of ten thats better than the turks 7 out of ten . I knew some of the guys who done there training and the story was the same .Solo was so long never see him again
Waste of a good Harvard
Perhaps it is a ploy to get the enemy to engage ???
It is always better if you can get the enemy to start the fight .Even better if they think they have a chance of winning .They come at you faster and walk or run right into the deciding factors.
Perhaps it was just another SNAFU.
Although the diplomats are now seeking an explanation instead of an apology .Cooler heads are now prevailing
6 out of ten thats better than the turks 7 out of ten . I knew some of the guys who done there training and the story was the same .Solo was so long never see him again
Waste of a good Harvard
TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- An Iranian official said his country had started a legal process to determine the guilt or innocence of 15 British sailors and marines who have been detained by Iran for the past nine days, accused of entering Iranian territorial waters.
If they are not guilty, they will be freed, said Ambassador Gholam-Reza Ansari, who is in Russia.
"But the legal process is going on and has to be completed, and if they are found guilty, they will face the punishment," he said on Russian TV. (Watch Iranian ambassador call British sailors 'invaders' )
Ansari -- speaking to the TV news channel Vesti-24 -- also hinted that there could be a diplomatic settlement, according to the Islamic Republic News Agency in Iran.
"If the UK government admits its mistake and apologizes to Iran for its naval personnel's trespassing of Iranian territorial waters, the issue can be easily settled."
Iran's president called British forces "arrogant" Saturday for not apologizing, media in Iran reported.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- in remarks carried by state radio and reported by the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency -- said, "The occupying British forces entered our waters, and our border guards, with courage and alertness, arrested them."
Instead of issuing any regret or displaying any shame, Britain postured, he said, issuing declarations and making speeches.
"These arrogants, due to their arrogant mentality and selfishness, instead of apologizing, they acted as if we owe them," he said.
Ahmadinejad also took a wider swipe at Britain and other Western nations.
"In the last 300 years, the arrogant powers have been stealing from other nations. They have enslaved the people of other nations," he said.
He said that after World War II, the Western countries "declared themselves the winners and created international organizations in order to continue their domination over the rest of the world.
"The arrogant powers unfortunately today are openly breaking the laws that those international organizations they themselves founded and created.
"They do nothing today except steal the wealth of other nations and in this way improve their own economies at the expense of other nations' wealth," Ahmadinejad said, according to IRNA.
British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said Saturday that Britain has written to Iran to seek a peaceful resolution to the standoff.
"We have made our response, and now we are beginning to discuss. As you may know, it's a holiday period in Iran, and that is perhaps not too helpful," said Beckett, speaking to reporters at the European Union foreign ministers' meeting in Germany.
The contents of the diplomatic notes passed between the two countries have not been disclosed.
"The message I want to send is that everyone regrets that this position has arisen. What we want is a way out of it, we want it peacefully, and we want it as soon as possible. We would like to be told where our personnel are; we would like to be given access to them," Beckett said.
The 15 British sailors and marines have been detained in an undisclosed location in Iran since March 23. (Watch brother and friends tell of fears for sailor )
EU officials meeting in Germany -- already dealing with the conflict over Iran's nuclear aspirations -- said they wanted to resolve the crisis.
"Of course, we're standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the United Kingdom," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told reporters.
Steinmeier said ministers had given EU security and foreign affairs chief Javier Solana a brief to use his office to help secure the release of the sailors.
He said he had hoped there would have been progress between Britain and Iran in bilateral efforts overnight, but that did not happen.
Solana, sitting next to Steinmeier, said his office has had contacts with Iranian officials, but he had not talked with the Iranian leaders about the British detainees and the nuclear issue. He said he hoped there would be positive developments to report in coming days.
If they are not guilty, they will be freed, said Ambassador Gholam-Reza Ansari, who is in Russia.
"But the legal process is going on and has to be completed, and if they are found guilty, they will face the punishment," he said on Russian TV. (Watch Iranian ambassador call British sailors 'invaders' )
Ansari -- speaking to the TV news channel Vesti-24 -- also hinted that there could be a diplomatic settlement, according to the Islamic Republic News Agency in Iran.
"If the UK government admits its mistake and apologizes to Iran for its naval personnel's trespassing of Iranian territorial waters, the issue can be easily settled."
Iran's president called British forces "arrogant" Saturday for not apologizing, media in Iran reported.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- in remarks carried by state radio and reported by the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency -- said, "The occupying British forces entered our waters, and our border guards, with courage and alertness, arrested them."
Instead of issuing any regret or displaying any shame, Britain postured, he said, issuing declarations and making speeches.
"These arrogants, due to their arrogant mentality and selfishness, instead of apologizing, they acted as if we owe them," he said.
Ahmadinejad also took a wider swipe at Britain and other Western nations.
"In the last 300 years, the arrogant powers have been stealing from other nations. They have enslaved the people of other nations," he said.
He said that after World War II, the Western countries "declared themselves the winners and created international organizations in order to continue their domination over the rest of the world.
"The arrogant powers unfortunately today are openly breaking the laws that those international organizations they themselves founded and created.
"They do nothing today except steal the wealth of other nations and in this way improve their own economies at the expense of other nations' wealth," Ahmadinejad said, according to IRNA.
British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said Saturday that Britain has written to Iran to seek a peaceful resolution to the standoff.
"We have made our response, and now we are beginning to discuss. As you may know, it's a holiday period in Iran, and that is perhaps not too helpful," said Beckett, speaking to reporters at the European Union foreign ministers' meeting in Germany.
The contents of the diplomatic notes passed between the two countries have not been disclosed.
"The message I want to send is that everyone regrets that this position has arisen. What we want is a way out of it, we want it peacefully, and we want it as soon as possible. We would like to be told where our personnel are; we would like to be given access to them," Beckett said.
The 15 British sailors and marines have been detained in an undisclosed location in Iran since March 23. (Watch brother and friends tell of fears for sailor )
EU officials meeting in Germany -- already dealing with the conflict over Iran's nuclear aspirations -- said they wanted to resolve the crisis.
"Of course, we're standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the United Kingdom," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told reporters.
Steinmeier said ministers had given EU security and foreign affairs chief Javier Solana a brief to use his office to help secure the release of the sailors.
He said he had hoped there would have been progress between Britain and Iran in bilateral efforts overnight, but that did not happen.
Solana, sitting next to Steinmeier, said his office has had contacts with Iranian officials, but he had not talked with the Iranian leaders about the British detainees and the nuclear issue. He said he hoped there would be positive developments to report in coming days.
Why would they release them? If Iranian sailors had been captured in british waters, would they be also released quickly?
There are hundreds of people in Guantanamo, who were taken from their country on hear say, and never got a chance of a fair trial...
Let's be fair to all. Iran is nobody's backyard.
There are hundreds of people in Guantanamo, who were taken from their country on hear say, and never got a chance of a fair trial...
Let's be fair to all. Iran is nobody's backyard.
Success in life is when the cognac that you drink is older than the women you drink it with.
If Iranian sailors were captured in "supposedly" British waters, the British would observe Geneva Convention Rules and we all know it. At the very least, the Iranian sailor's chances of being treated in accordance with those Rules would be far greater. Iran has already broken a basic tenet of the Geneva Convention by photographing and having those sailors on video and releasing it to the public. Then again, in the world of the Mullahs, the Geneva Conventions and any rules within it are all rules dreamed up by the "infidel" nations who are using them and other rules to try and rid the world of Islam.
Please do not speak of "fairness" on this subject. This whole "contest" is totally based on religion. The Mullahs are now demonstrating their powers to their peoples by making the international diplomats, Presidents and PM's dance like they were their puppets. If it was based on politics, then certain rules of international diplomacy would have already been observed. There is no "diplomacy" observed anywhere that the Mullahs reign supreme. They have powers that would make Stalin and Hitler froth at the mouth. There is no politician in the western world who has now or will ever have such powers. Unless you have lived there and experienced it, this is all very difficult or impossible to believe. There is no politics in Iran without religion. One cannot exist without the other. They control how your wife, mother, sister will dress today. They will tell you when you will stop work to pray and where.......and you WILL do both....whether you like it or not. They will control your social customs and how you sit in a chair, for example. They will determine who is allowed to run for office in your governments. There will exist no "oversite" of any kind that will make sure that their actions are done according to a set of rules of any sort. They will send you to war without explanation and there will be no
conscription.......you go or else.
Backyard? IF....by some chance, the Iranian Mullahs should be so stupid as to have any or all of those British sailors executed for ANY reason, then you can expect that Iran will become a "toilet" and not a "backyard". They ain't that stupid though and in the meantime, they'll just keep on "ringing our bells" in the West, just like they've always been able to do.
Please do not speak of "fairness" on this subject. This whole "contest" is totally based on religion. The Mullahs are now demonstrating their powers to their peoples by making the international diplomats, Presidents and PM's dance like they were their puppets. If it was based on politics, then certain rules of international diplomacy would have already been observed. There is no "diplomacy" observed anywhere that the Mullahs reign supreme. They have powers that would make Stalin and Hitler froth at the mouth. There is no politician in the western world who has now or will ever have such powers. Unless you have lived there and experienced it, this is all very difficult or impossible to believe. There is no politics in Iran without religion. One cannot exist without the other. They control how your wife, mother, sister will dress today. They will tell you when you will stop work to pray and where.......and you WILL do both....whether you like it or not. They will control your social customs and how you sit in a chair, for example. They will determine who is allowed to run for office in your governments. There will exist no "oversite" of any kind that will make sure that their actions are done according to a set of rules of any sort. They will send you to war without explanation and there will be no
conscription.......you go or else.
Backyard? IF....by some chance, the Iranian Mullahs should be so stupid as to have any or all of those British sailors executed for ANY reason, then you can expect that Iran will become a "toilet" and not a "backyard". They ain't that stupid though and in the meantime, they'll just keep on "ringing our bells" in the West, just like they've always been able to do.
Good point EP
But how would you give a fair trial to someone who is not fighting fair.Who kills without conscience and then asks for mercy ???
"Mercy will be given to the Merciful "Some old book they gave me to read as a boy at school
But how would you give a fair trial to someone who is not fighting fair.Who kills without conscience and then asks for mercy ???
"Mercy will be given to the Merciful "Some old book they gave me to read as a boy at school
Last edited by 2R on Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
U.S. President George W. Bush called Iran's detention of the sailors "inexcusable behavior" and called for their release, referring to them as "hostages."
"The Iranians took these people out of Iraqi water," said Bush, speaking Saturday at Camp David with Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. "And it's inexcusable behavior."
The U.S. government had been notably quiet on the subject from the beginning, but Bush voiced strong opinions Saturday.
"The Iranians must give back the hostages," he said. "They were innocent. They were doing nothing wrong. And they were summarily plucked out of water."
I realize they are close allies but why the F does Bush alleways gota stir the pot.. Why can't he just shut his mouth? Grassy Nole anyone?
"The Iranians took these people out of Iraqi water," said Bush, speaking Saturday at Camp David with Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. "And it's inexcusable behavior."
The U.S. government had been notably quiet on the subject from the beginning, but Bush voiced strong opinions Saturday.
"The Iranians must give back the hostages," he said. "They were innocent. They were doing nothing wrong. And they were summarily plucked out of water."
I realize they are close allies but why the F does Bush alleways gota stir the pot.. Why can't he just shut his mouth? Grassy Nole anyone?
Nark, maybe I was a little harsh with my comments.. I just think that Bush should sit idle once in a while. The world will probably never know who's water the Brits were in. This is no reason to start a war over but Bush's comments in my view are poking at the issue. Let Britain deal with it, the lives of the 15 people are at stake here. I am guessing that you are in the service? or were? I am in no way anti-war or anything like that, I beleive some instances warrant military action but there are also instances where it can be avoided. In my opinion the president of Iran is looking for confrontation..........Edited
Last edited by Reality on Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bmc ----- check the Geneva Conventions through the internet and find out for yourself. The whole subject is academic anyway because the Koran would rule supreme over any parts of the Geneva Conventions if there was disagreement. Also understand that that would be the Mullahs unterpretation of the Koran and not some "expert on the Koran" from the western world.
Thanks LH.
Is the US exempt from following Geneva Conventions? George has admitted that God speaks to him what to do.
We get our knickers in a twist over 15 Brits and cry foul play when we have a couple of hundred people basking in the sun in Guantanamo. It seems a little hypocritical to me.
The US and Britain have been fucking around in the Middle East since before WW1. I find it comical that we get upset with they react. How dare they.
I never realized you were such a strong Bush supporter LH.
Is the US exempt from following Geneva Conventions? George has admitted that God speaks to him what to do.
We get our knickers in a twist over 15 Brits and cry foul play when we have a couple of hundred people basking in the sun in Guantanamo. It seems a little hypocritical to me.
The US and Britain have been fucking around in the Middle East since before WW1. I find it comical that we get upset with they react. How dare they.
I never realized you were such a strong Bush supporter LH.
bmc
Yes I am an active duty US Marine. And I thank you for your support.
It is Pres. Bush's job to comment on the situation. He's not just running his suck.
I also don't think this situation will last 444 days like another situation did in 1979-1981. How come no one has mentioned that yet?
Cheers.
PS. For those who need to know, it is very easy to find out the last position of the vessel in question. Of course only to those who have the toys.
It is Pres. Bush's job to comment on the situation. He's not just running his suck.
I also don't think this situation will last 444 days like another situation did in 1979-1981. How come no one has mentioned that yet?
Cheers.
PS. For those who need to know, it is very easy to find out the last position of the vessel in question. Of course only to those who have the toys.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Fifteen British sailors and Marines detained by Iran for over a week have confessed to illegally entering the country's waters, Iranian state-run media reported on Monday.
But there were signs as well that both sides were softening their stance over the diplomatic dispute as a British official said the two countries had agreed to discuss how to avoid future disputes over contested waters in the Persian Gulf, The Associated Press reported.
Nark, Do you think the soldiers were in Iranain waters? Could the soldiers have been forced to admit? or is Britain just trying to save face? I haven't a clueto be honest
But there were signs as well that both sides were softening their stance over the diplomatic dispute as a British official said the two countries had agreed to discuss how to avoid future disputes over contested waters in the Persian Gulf, The Associated Press reported.
Nark, Do you think the soldiers were in Iranain waters? Could the soldiers have been forced to admit? or is Britain just trying to save face? I haven't a clueto be honest
Remember 1981? Nark, I was Supply Officer of HMCS Skeena, berthed in Norfolk, when the hostages were freed. The marines from NAS Oceania, came over to the ship and presented us a big cake as a thank you.
There was some sabre rattling over the embassy crisis, but nothing like we see today...
If Bush wants to maintain some credibility, he should stay out of it, and let the Brits handle it.
Besides, if Blair lets him handle it, he would prove to be an incompetent and a puppet. He does not need that now...
There was some sabre rattling over the embassy crisis, but nothing like we see today...
If Bush wants to maintain some credibility, he should stay out of it, and let the Brits handle it.
Besides, if Blair lets him handle it, he would prove to be an incompetent and a puppet. He does not need that now...
Success in life is when the cognac that you drink is older than the women you drink it with.
bmc ------I said before to check the Geneva Conventions for yourself. The US was pushing the limits on some areas of the Geneva Conventions when they first incarcerated the Iraqi prisoners at Guantanamo, but if you remember back, there was an outcry even from some of their own Congressmen. As it stands right now they are not contravening any of the rules. Where the dissention comes now is whether one considers the inmates to be civilian or military. If one believes the former then you say it is all illegal because they were taken into custody by military, shipped by military, housed by military and are being tried in a military court. Also remember that many of the changes came as a result of rulings of the US Supreme Court because of the pressure put on them by certain members of Congress. There are those that believe that if a person is caught in a combat zone and they could well be a member of the "opposite side" then they should be considered the same as and treated exactly the same as a uniformed soldier. For me personally, I don't care what age you are, what sex you are, whether you wear black pyjamas, robes or a regulation military uniform......if I have suspicions about you then you get taken into custody until we can deem otherwise in a military court if necessary. You can be any of the aforementioned and quickly turn my wife back home into a widow if I'm naive enough to think that only those wearing a uniform can do it.
Me a Bush fan? You got that from what I've stated? Boy, do I have to watch my syntax then. God, the man is the living reincarnation of Richard Nixon and his assistants are the re-incarnation of MacNamara and the gang. I served under the former and am sure glad I don't have to serve under the latter. Bush even got Nixon beat on the "Approval Ratings" because his are even lower than Nixon's were on his worse day. There's hope though.......Americans aren't always smart, but they arn't always stupid either.....we should know all about that up here eh?
Over 2300 KIA and over 50,000 wounded in various forms and a total cost topping $400B..........and for what? If you really want to know if it was all worth it and how great they think Bush is, then ask the girl-friends, parents, kids and wives of those guys coming home in body bags...........they're the "experts"
Me a Bush fan? You got that from what I've stated? Boy, do I have to watch my syntax then. God, the man is the living reincarnation of Richard Nixon and his assistants are the re-incarnation of MacNamara and the gang. I served under the former and am sure glad I don't have to serve under the latter. Bush even got Nixon beat on the "Approval Ratings" because his are even lower than Nixon's were on his worse day. There's hope though.......Americans aren't always smart, but they arn't always stupid either.....we should know all about that up here eh?
Over 2300 KIA and over 50,000 wounded in various forms and a total cost topping $400B..........and for what? If you really want to know if it was all worth it and how great they think Bush is, then ask the girl-friends, parents, kids and wives of those guys coming home in body bags...........they're the "experts"
It is my understanding that Pres. Bush is staying out of it.
Commenting on a situation and supplying the Brits with beans-bullets-and-bandages is another thing.
Until my Commanding General sends the Warning Order down to me, I'll continue to sit here, and twiddle my thumbs.
Commenting on a situation and supplying the Brits with beans-bullets-and-bandages is another thing.
Until my Commanding General sends the Warning Order down to me, I'll continue to sit here, and twiddle my thumbs.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
