AMEs Done

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YYCAME
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by YYCAME »

Me and my wife were discussing what should be considered a fair wage tonight and it's a tough question. I think the answer is the same as the company uses whenever defending their prices. It's whatever the market supply and demand prices it at. Right now we have an unusually low supply of AME's due to the fact that in the past two decades Air Canada, the wage defining player, chose to outsource jobs out of the country and use CCAA to artificially depress wages across the industry to the point that many apprentices in my generation were paid extremely low wages if they could even find employment to pursue the trade. My first job offer in 2006 after school was literally for minimum wage and I would have taken it if I thought I'd be able to survive on it. Only maybe 10% of my class ended up in aviation. Luckily I was offered $15 elsewhere and spent the next 3 years until I was licensed making $15-20 per hour. Supply of AME's will return when students start to see job stability, increased pay, opportunity, etc. It's not just about dollars per hour, it's about all the other sacrifices and instability that this career has been saddled with due to limited employment options. If the government wants to start deciding what we all get paid then maybe it should start at the top with upper management. Not with the people who are forced to work night shifts, outside in all weather, exposed to a wide variety of health and safety hazards, and expected to follow complicated procedures with 100% accuracy at 4am so the plane is ready to go at 6am.

It's not just about the money, and you don't get a 99% strike vote unless you have seriously disrespected your entire workforce with quality of life threats and other contract demands that make people seriously pissed off. Dollars per hour is an easy way to try and quantify a contract but good luck trying to put a dollar value on the disrespect of the profession and workforce by Westjet management.
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Dronepiper
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by Dronepiper »

DanWEC wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:03 pm
Dronepiper wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:52 pm What does a car mechanic make? I always thought they were paid like a max of 70k at most, with a lot of them starting under 45k.

Sure, the shop hourly rate is high, but that never goes to the employee.

I agree you guys should make more, but what exactly are you aiming for? I am just curious.
My neighbour owns a large local garage. Has done very, very well and has an absolute pile of cash. Wants to sell and is angry that -in his words last month- he can't find mechanics because a class A wants 40 bucks an hour.
I understand the burden of running a business, especially insurance now but, yikes.

Car mechanic is also different because you have a service book hour structure.

Small one truck plumber 80-120/hr. Similar for elec and HVAC.
So a car mechanic would make the bottom scale of your new TA?

A one man AME shop could also charge $125/hr. There is a difference between owning your business vs working at one.

If you were red seal plumber working under another company, you probably only make a max of $45/50/hr.

Again, I absolutely think you guys should be paid more, but what are you looking for? 60/hr? 70/hr? What other sorts of Quality of life changes are you looking for?
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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

Dronepiper wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:16 am So a car mechanic would make the bottom scale of your new TA?

A one man AME shop could also charge $125/hr. There is a difference between owning your business vs working at one.

If you were red seal plumber working under another company, you probably only make a max of $45/50/hr.

Again, I absolutely think you guys should be paid more, but what are you looking for? 60/hr? 70/hr? What other sorts of Quality of life changes are you looking for?
A one man AME shop would be fixing 172s.

WestJet AMEs are working on significantly more advanced airliners.

There is a justification for higher pay.
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YYCAME
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by YYCAME »

If you take a look at pilot pay for a 172 and a 737 you can get a rough idea of how the industry values the increased complexity and responsibility. Even with conservative numbers if you say a 172 pilot makes 60k and a 737 pilot averages 120k you can see that 35 an hour to fix 172s equates to 70 an hour for 737. These are very rough numbers and obviously there is more to a contract then just money but it gives you a way to evaluate it based on an industry standard.
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digits_
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by digits_ »

YYCAME wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:29 am If you take a look at pilot pay for a 172 and a 737 you can get a rough idea of how the industry values the increased complexity and responsibility. Even with conservative numbers if you say a 172 pilot makes 60k and a 737 pilot averages 120k you can see that 35 an hour to fix 172s equates to 70 an hour for 737. These are very rough numbers and obviously there is more to a contract then just money but it gives you a way to evaluate it based on an industry standard.
That comparison can go either way and vary wildly. A lot of 703 pilots take a paycut to work for AC or WJ...
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justapassenger
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by justapassenger »

YYCAME wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:29 am If you take a look at pilot pay for a 172 and a 737 you can get a rough idea of how the industry values the increased complexity and responsibility. Even with conservative numbers if you say a 172 pilot makes 60k and a 737 pilot averages 120k you can see that 35 an hour to fix 172s equates to 70 an hour for 737. These are very rough numbers and obviously there is more to a contract then just money but it gives you a way to evaluate it based on an industry standard.
….and this clearly spells out why you feel you are undervalued and hide behind your union card. It doesn’t work like that…..you love auto mechanics comparison so can you compare the wage at a classic car shop to a ford dealership. You don’t like your compensation, do as grown ups should, and find somewhere else to work. Don’t like that compensation, go to a new industry. What would Gordon Ramsey do at McDonalds?!?! Cry for a union?!?! No!! He would Leave and find something else….where he is happy, feels valued, etc.

Get back to work and quit wrecking your customers travel plans…..Onex has the Liberals in their back pockets. Do some googling. Onexs CEO is one of their largest donors. They know what they are doing.
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daedalusx
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by daedalusx »

justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:21 pm
YYCAME wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:29 am If you take a look at pilot pay for a 172 and a 737 you can get a rough idea of how the industry values the increased complexity and responsibility. Even with conservative numbers if you say a 172 pilot makes 60k and a 737 pilot averages 120k you can see that 35 an hour to fix 172s equates to 70 an hour for 737. These are very rough numbers and obviously there is more to a contract then just money but it gives you a way to evaluate it based on an industry standard.
….and this clearly spells out why you feel you are undervalued and hide behind your union card. It doesn’t work like that…..you love auto mechanics comparison so can you compare the wage at a classic car shop to a ford dealership. You don’t like your compensation, do as grown ups should, and find somewhere else to work. Don’t like that compensation, go to a new industry. What would Gordon Ramsey do at McDonalds?!?! Cry for a union?!?! No!! He would Leave and find something else….where he is happy, feels valued, etc.

Get back to work and quit wrecking your customers travel plans…..Onex has the Liberals in their back pockets. Do some googling. Onexs CEO is one of their largest donors. They know what they are doing.
Image

Imagine thinking a SLF opinion has any value here. Go back to commenting on facebook articles, boomer.

Typical low IQ strawman argument "OHHH YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, THEN GO AWAY" yeah let's not try to improve our communities/workplace/standards of living, yeah no let's just leave and bring in some drones who won't complaint and do that management tells them to do, what a great libertarian ideal, it worked so well at Boeing.
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justapassenger
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by justapassenger »

daedalusx wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:31 pm
justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:21 pm
YYCAME wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:29 am If you take a look at pilot pay for a 172 and a 737 you can get a rough idea of how the industry values the increased complexity and responsibility. Even with conservative numbers if you say a 172 pilot makes 60k and a 737 pilot averages 120k you can see that 35 an hour to fix 172s equates to 70 an hour for 737. These are very rough numbers and obviously there is more to a contract then just money but it gives you a way to evaluate it based on an industry standard.
….and this clearly spells out why you feel you are undervalued and hide behind your union card. It doesn’t work like that…..you love auto mechanics comparison so can you compare the wage at a classic car shop to a ford dealership. You don’t like your compensation, do as grown ups should, and find somewhere else to work. Don’t like that compensation, go to a new industry. What would Gordon Ramsey do at McDonalds?!?! Cry for a union?!?! No!! He would Leave and find something else….where he is happy, feels valued, etc.

Get back to work and quit wrecking your customers travel plans…..Onex has the Liberals in their back pockets. Do some googling. Onexs CEO is one of their largest donors. They know what they are doing.
Image

Imagine thinking a SLF opinion has any value here. Go back to commenting on facebook articles, boomer.

Typical low IQ strawman argument "OHHH YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, THEN GO AWAY" yeah let's not try to improve our communities/workplace/standards of living, yeah no let's just leave and bring in some drones who won't complaint and do that management tells them to do, what a great libertarian ideal, it worked so well at Boeing.
Sorry, can’t take anything you say serious given the Southpark gif.
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cdnavater
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by cdnavater »

justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:59 pm
daedalusx wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:31 pm
justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:21 pm

….and this clearly spells out why you feel you are undervalued and hide behind your union card. It doesn’t work like that…..you love auto mechanics comparison so can you compare the wage at a classic car shop to a ford dealership. You don’t like your compensation, do as grown ups should, and find somewhere else to work. Don’t like that compensation, go to a new industry. What would Gordon Ramsey do at McDonalds?!?! Cry for a union?!?! No!! He would Leave and find something else….where he is happy, feels valued, etc.

Get back to work and quit wrecking your customers travel plans…..Onex has the Liberals in their back pockets. Do some googling. Onexs CEO is one of their largest donors. They know what they are doing.
Image

Imagine thinking a SLF opinion has any value here. Go back to commenting on facebook articles, boomer.

Typical low IQ strawman argument "OHHH YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, THEN GO AWAY" yeah let's not try to improve our communities/workplace/standards of living, yeah no let's just leave and bring in some drones who won't complaint and do that management tells them to do, what a great libertarian ideal, it worked so well at Boeing.
Sorry, can’t take anything you say serious given the Southpark gif.
No matter what anyone else says and the customer of course matters so, WJ management should certainly have thought about that, read the submission to the CIRB from AMFA, it outlines a company that is shady and only cares about profit.
Your selfish opinion is that, completely unabashedly selfish, employees have the right to make their place of employment better for themselves and should!
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justapassenger
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by justapassenger »

cdnavater wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:38 pm
justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:59 pm
daedalusx wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:31 pm

Image

Imagine thinking a SLF opinion has any value here. Go back to commenting on facebook articles, boomer.

Typical low IQ strawman argument "OHHH YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, THEN GO AWAY" yeah let's not try to improve our communities/workplace/standards of living, yeah no let's just leave and bring in some drones who won't complaint and do that management tells them to do, what a great libertarian ideal, it worked so well at Boeing.
Sorry, can’t take anything you say serious given the Southpark gif.
No matter what anyone else says and the customer of course matters so, WJ management should certainly have thought about that, read the submission to the CIRB from AMFA, it outlines a company that is shady and only cares about profit.
Your selfish opinion is that, completely unabashedly selfish, employees have the right to make their place of employment better for themselves and should!

WTF….thats the role of a corporation. They have shareholders and owners, etc. The idea is to maximize value / return?!?! I sure wouldn’t invest in a company you owned?!?! Give all profits back to the employees?!?!

Once again, you don’t like it. Leave. The door isn’t locked!!?!
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YYCAME
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by YYCAME »

digits_ wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:10 am
YYCAME wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:29 am If you take a look at pilot pay for a 172 and a 737 you can get a rough idea of how the industry values the increased complexity and responsibility. Even with conservative numbers if you say a 172 pilot makes 60k and a 737 pilot averages 120k you can see that 35 an hour to fix 172s equates to 70 an hour for 737. These are very rough numbers and obviously there is more to a contract then just money but it gives you a way to evaluate it based on an industry standard.
That comparison can go either way and vary wildly. A lot of 703 pilots take a paycut to work for AC or WJ...
In maintenance we also have to typically start at the bottom and work our way up. Generally we always take a pay cut to move to the bigger companies because they demand we start at the bottom of the pay scale regardless of experience. (Again, we have had zero bargaining power for a long time) For some reason they are never willing to match your current vacation either, so you start at the bottom with the federal minimum again. I took a pay cut to move to AC and figured it was an acceptable temporary loss just like many FOs do. The difference being though that we don' see the high end numbers moving the way pilots do to compensate you for those years. The pay only doubles from lowest to highest instead of quadrupling or more.
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cdnavater
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by cdnavater »

justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:48 pm
cdnavater wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:38 pm
justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:59 pm

Sorry, can’t take anything you say serious given the Southpark gif.
No matter what anyone else says and the customer of course matters so, WJ management should certainly have thought about that, read the submission to the CIRB from AMFA, it outlines a company that is shady and only cares about profit.
Your selfish opinion is that, completely unabashedly selfish, employees have the right to make their place of employment better for themselves and should!

WTF….thats the role of a corporation. They have shareholders and owners, etc. The idea is to maximize value / return?!?! I sure wouldn’t invest in a company you owned?!?! Give all profits back to the employees?!?!

Once again, you don’t like it. Leave. The door isn’t locked!!?!
So, to understand your position, corporate greed is ok but employees should just be happy to have a job.
I can dismiss your comments now, you have shown you are completely unreasonable, quite possibly one of them in the us vs them equation.
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TheLastonetoknow
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by TheLastonetoknow »

justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:21 pm
YYCAME wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 10:29 am If you take a look at pilot pay for a 172 and a 737 you can get a rough idea of how the industry values the increased complexity and responsibility. Even with conservative numbers if you say a 172 pilot makes 60k and a 737 pilot averages 120k you can see that 35 an hour to fix 172s equates to 70 an hour for 737. These are very rough numbers and obviously there is more to a contract then just money but it gives you a way to evaluate it based on an industry standard.
….and this clearly spells out why you feel you are undervalued and hide behind your union card. It doesn’t work like that…..you love auto mechanics comparison so can you compare the wage at a classic car shop to a ford dealership. You don’t like your compensation, do as grown ups should, and find somewhere else to work. Don’t like that compensation, go to a new industry. What would Gordon Ramsey do at McDonalds?!?! Cry for a union?!?! No!! He would Leave and find something else….where he is happy, feels valued, etc.

Get back to work and quit wrecking your customers travel plans…..Onex has the Liberals in their back pockets. Do some googling. Onexs CEO is one of their largest donors. They know what they are doing.
The airline is more then capable of wrecking people’s travel plans on their own. Remember Christmas 2022. Not an issue with the pilots or AMEs on that debacle. 🥴
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UggaDugga
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by UggaDugga »

https://afl.org/blog-westjet-cancellati ... ull-story/

Here's a solid overview of what's transpired till this point and what kind of management we've been dealing with
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Stu Pidasso
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by Stu Pidasso »

justapassenger - how about you just say thank-you to the WJ AME's for keeping the Airplanes safe and reliable. The career got decimated the minute the AC AME's got in bed with the Ramp Rats, biggest mistake of their lives.

Overpaid Unskilled labour and Under Paid Skilled labour.

All The Best to the WJ AME's, it has been sad to watch the behavior of your Management. Some nose picking MBA that wouldn't know an Airline from a Widget Factory.
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justapasenger
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by justapasenger »

Corporate greed is disgusting!

I appreciate hard working Canadians that keep us safe!
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braaap Braap
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by braaap Braap »

justapassenger wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:49 pm Yup, first time poster….long time reader but I had to post on this one….

You don’t like it, go to a different company. Still not happy about it, leave the industry. Quit the whining and hiding behind your union card and do what every non-union employee out there does. Every good, hardworking AME I know in the industry, has found a job with respect and great compensation. Unions protect the lazy and incompetent. No matter the deal, they are never happy and want more for sitting and waiting for the E guy to remove the canon plug so you can turn 2 screws.

The picture in the paper was a joke. Union ‘team members’ smiling with picket signs, shaking hands with a potential NDP leadership candidate. What a joke…..and you thought management wrecked WJ. Wow. Proud work gents! Haha

You all are destroying the public’s travel plans because you are too lazy to find a new job. Get to work!
justapassenger wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:21 pm
….and this clearly spells out why you feel you are undervalued and hide behind your union card. It doesn’t work like that…..you love auto mechanics comparison so can you compare the wage at a classic car shop to a ford dealership. You don’t like your compensation, do as grown ups should, and find somewhere else to work. Don’t like that compensation, go to a new industry. What would Gordon Ramsey do at McDonalds?!?! Cry for a union?!?! No!! He would Leave and find something else….where he is happy, feels valued, etc.

Get back to work and quit wrecking your customers travel plans…..Onex has the Liberals in their back pockets. Do some googling. Onexs CEO is one of their largest donors. They know what they are doing.
Just stfu and go back to whatever hole you crawled out of already. Joined yesterday and only participating by shitting on people exercising their constitutionally protected rights https://canliiconnects.org/en/commentaries/35978. Riiiight.

Who do you think you are to come in here and act like you and your travel plans are more important than a groups constitutional rights? How about if you don't want your travel plans "wrecked" stop supporting companies that chose to play hardball with their employee groups and try and push them around.

And since I'm sure you're not actually "JustaPassenger" and more like "JustaWestjetManager" let me take the opportunity to say :smt097
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justapassenger
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by justapassenger »

There’s fair and reasonable and then theres AMFA.

I’ll be sharing with everyone that it is the AMEs and not WestJet. Westjet was doing what they agreed too!

You don’t like the compensation, find a new job! Quit hiding behind your union. Your Union is a bunch of lazy dinosaurs….this is an embarrassing document to put out publicly?!?! They blew the dust off this ‘90s union garbage. Dues being spent well ‘team’ : https://www.amfanational.org/docs/20240 ... _Seham.pdf
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RippleRock
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by RippleRock »

We're behind you 100% Westjet AME's.

Go get em!

Make all of us "license holders" proud!!! Pilots and dispatchers are cheering you all on.

Stand up tall for your licensed profession!!!

Get it done!


HOLD THD LINE.
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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

justapassenger wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:55 am There’s fair and reasonable and then theres AMFA.

I’ll be sharing with everyone that it is the AMEs and not WestJet. Westjet was doing what they agreed too!

You don’t like the compensation, find a new job! Quit hiding behind your union. Your Union is a bunch of lazy dinosaurs….this is an embarrassing document to put out publicly?!?! They blew the dust off this ‘90s union garbage. Dues being spent well ‘team’ : https://www.amfanational.org/docs/20240 ... _Seham.pdf
You are kidding, right? You have seen how WestJet negotiates with unions. The first job action was initiated by the company when they weren't getting what they wanted, and they decided to threaten to lock out the mechanics after threatening to outsource them. The union came to an agreement with them that went to ratification. The mechanics voted it down and the company refused to come back to the table. Instead, they tried for binding arbitration. That is when AMFA filed the first strike notice. When the company finally agreed to come to the table, they retracted their strike notice.

Now that they've gotten back to the table, AMFA has apparently seen that the company does not want to negotiate a contract that will pass, so they're pressing their leverage.

WestJet does not negotiate in good faith.
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digits_
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by digits_ »

dontcallmeshirley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:03 am
Now that they've gotten back to the table, AMFA has apparently seen that the company does not want to negotiate a contract that will pass, so they're pressing their leverage.
I think I missed some things. What leverage are they pressing?
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by Canadaflyer46 »

digits_ wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:31 am
dontcallmeshirley wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:03 am
Now that they've gotten back to the table, AMFA has apparently seen that the company does not want to negotiate a contract that will pass, so they're pressing their leverage.
I think I missed some things. What leverage are they pressing?
https://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/uni ... eID=923687
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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

digits_ wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:31 am I think I missed some things. What leverage are they pressing?
The leverage is the company being stuck between offering the mechanics a substantively better contract, or experiencing job action leading to offering a quantitatively better offer.

Having spoken to several mechanics, the common theme I've heard is that the first TA took away the retirement match, moved money from one base to another, and did not offer job security.
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by flyinhigh »

justapassenger wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:41 am There’s corporate and then there’s union greed. We are seeing union greed now. Get to work or leave!
First there's accountant spewing off, than there is shill, now this clown.

Nice to see WJ management come to an anonymous form and show they know nothing of how things work.
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planenuts
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Re: AMEs Done

Post by planenuts »

justapassenger wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:41 am There’s corporate and then there’s union greed. We are seeing union greed now. Get to work or leave!
Guys....don't feed the troll. If he doesn't like it he can drive to his holiday
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