Union at West Jet

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Red1
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Red1 »

WestJet is under going some of the largest changes it has seen since the company was founded. Change is hard for anyone, it creates uncertainty. Right or wrong they announced bases with having very little information. Although its frustrating that we don't know anything, I'm glad they are engaging the employee group on how bases will be implemented. So I'll sit and be patient.

Some complain that the WJPA have no teeth, well if this was the case I am sure our agreement would have wrapped up by know. The fact that its still ongoing shows they are still gnawing over things.

My biggest concern with a Unionized pilot group is the me-to affect it might have with the other employee groups. I fear that it would mark the beginning of the end.
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mbav8r
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by mbav8r »

I do believe Encore, as a seperate company, marked the beginning of the end but time will tell.
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nogood4u
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by nogood4u »

"Me too affect". Under the current PACT/WJPA set up that is just the problem. We are lumped into a socialistic society where by everything we try to accomplish or obtain in our working conditions has to run through the PACT organization where by all the other groups have a say in what we get in the end, or in the end. How ever way you look at it. Like really.
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Squid
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Squid »

So what's wrong with that? How has it not worked so far? What's wrong with all employees in a company having a say? Or do you want a more traditional us vs them scenario. Food for though my friend. Doesn't seem to work that well at other shops. Look around!
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WJ200
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by WJ200 »

"Me too affect". Under the current PACT/WJPA set up that is just the problem. We are lumped into a socialistic society where by everything we try to accomplish or obtain in our working conditions has to run through the PACT organization where by all the other groups have a say in what we get in the end, or in the end. How ever way you look at it. Like really.
Can you be specific and reference an occurrence where PACT had some control over the bargaining of the Pilots Association. I'm willing to bet that you can't. I've heard this rhetoric for many years but I'm still waiting to witness a case where this has been true. Our agreement has never had to go through PACT for approval.....like really?
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Bede
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Bede »

Wasn't our prolonged wait for reciprocal JS with other airlines because PACT thought it wasn't fair?
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mbav8r
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by mbav8r »

I also heard that the reason recip pilots paid all the taxes etc, is because PACT would not allow other pilots fly for free if they couldn't. So now we all pay, albeit WJ pilots still pay less than I do to fly on Jazz or AC. Hard to say for sure what drove that initiative but there were some voices getter louder about WJ riding free while we paid, so did the "me too" cause that, probably.
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Squid
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Squid »

And it's too bad our unions don't have the voice to open up the jump seat rules to match westjets. Think if westjet has 10 seats open ten airlines get to use it that had recips. If ac has 2 jumps and 20 open, it 2 recip pilots. Just saying mb. ;) just think if they didn't have that rule you're colleagues might have a hard time getting on if they restricted it to two. :)
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The Raven
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by The Raven »

Squid wrote:And it's too bad our unions don't have the voice to open up the jump seat rules to match westjets. Think if westjet has 10 seats open ten airlines get to use it that had recips. If ac has 2 jumps and 20 open, it 2 recip pilots. Just saying mb. ;) just think if they didn't have that rule you're colleagues might have a hard time getting on if they restricted it to two. :)
My head hurts from trying to read your post. Either you've had too much to drink, or I have.
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wjhr
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by wjhr »

I think he is trying to say: AC should open the number of jump seats up to equal the number of empty seats in the back in order to allow more recip pilots on. :)
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WJ200
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by WJ200 »

So we have the Jumpseat. That's been negotiated through the WJPA. I'm still waiting for a concrete example of where we have been held back by PACT and it still impacts us today. We could use some examples in the past but they've all been corrected over time.

Look around the industry. Look on other forums like PPRune, Airline Pilot Central. Look at what it's like to be treated poorly by an employer. You won't even get close to being able to compare it to WJ. Those companies have a proven need for a union....I just don't see the need here yet.
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FICU
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by FICU »

wjhr wrote:I think he is trying to say: AC should open the number of jump seats up to equal the number of empty seats in the back in order to allow more recip pilots on. :)
I thought that's what they did when they went to the same "pay to JS" model of WJ.
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CanadaEH
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by CanadaEH »

nogood4u wrote:"Me too affect". Under the current PACT/WJPA set up that is just the problem. We are lumped into a socialistic society where by everything we try to accomplish or obtain in our working conditions has to run through the PACT organization where by all the other groups have a say in what we get in the end, or in the end. How ever way you look at it. Like really.
I think you are seriously misinformed about how things work at PACT/WJPA.
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Mostly Harmless
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Mostly Harmless »

CanadaEH wrote:I think you are seriously misinformed about how things work at PACT/WJPA.
It would seem there is a misconception and you are pointing that out. Perhaps you could offer information about how things do work at PACT/WJPA instead of just pointing out people are wrong.
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CanadaEH
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by CanadaEH »

Mostly Harmless wrote:
CanadaEH wrote:I think you are seriously misinformed about how things work at PACT/WJPA.
It would seem there is a misconception and you are pointing that out. Perhaps you could offer information about how things do work at PACT/WJPA instead of just pointing out people are wrong.
I don't think I need to educate anyone on a public forum but thanks for the suggestion.
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justwork
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by justwork »

CanadaEH wrote:
Mostly Harmless wrote:
CanadaEH wrote:I think you are seriously misinformed about how things work at PACT/WJPA.
It would seem there is a misconception and you are pointing that out. Perhaps you could offer information about how things do work at PACT/WJPA instead of just pointing out people are wrong.
I don't think I need to educate anyone on a public forum but thanks for the suggestion.
It's classified. He could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you... and the entire public forum.

Image
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CAL
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by CAL »

CanadaEH wrote:
Mostly Harmless wrote:
CanadaEH wrote:I think you are seriously misinformed about how things work at PACT/WJPA.
It would seem there is a misconception and you are pointing that out. Perhaps you could offer information about how things do work at PACT/WJPA instead of just pointing out people are wrong.
I don't think I need to educate anyone on a public forum but thanks for the suggestion.
really?.....come on guys are you that afraid? is it that big of a deal?
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Mostly Harmless
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Mostly Harmless »

justwork wrote:It's classified. He could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you... and the entire public forum.

Image
:) Thanks for a good laugh.
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WhatThe?
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by WhatThe? »

Actually Tom wouldn't kill you. He would convert you to Scientology and hide you in-the-closet so that you would wish you were dead!
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CanadaEH
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by CanadaEH »

really?.....come on guys are you that afraid? is it that big of a deal?
Afraid? No. I don't think this is the proper venue to be discussing what I know and what I believe to know about PACT/WJPA, WestJet, and the benefit/salary review processes.
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Mach1
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Mach1 »

I take it the discussion is over?
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CAL
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by CAL »

they are afraid to protect themselves whatever that means......I wish them well....but with encore it seems they have sacrificed some to save themselves....its human nature but counter productive in the long run much like most of our industry
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7thirtyseven
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by 7thirtyseven »

CAL wrote:they are afraid to protect themselves whatever that means......I wish them well....but with encore it seems they have sacrificed some to save themselves....its human nature but counter productive in the long run much like most of our industry
The perception "they have sacrificed some to save themselves" doesnt really fit in the context of Encore. First, WestJet pilots dont need "saving". By and large we are doing just fine, with no serious threats on the near horizon. Second, no one was "sacrificed". Im sure newly hired Encore pilots and potential pilots would be happy to tell you things will be tight, but there is a bright future.
Finally the truth of the matter is, that WestJet pilots have infact, by working with the company to ensure the next round of growth, and continued success, laid their collective balls on the table in a not fully understood gesture of good faith.
Yes by supporting this whole initiative WestJet pilots have opened themselves up to huge potential harm. Kinda the opposite of your perception.
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Mach1
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by Mach1 »

7thirtyseven wrote:Finally the truth of the matter is... laid their collective balls on the table in a not fully understood gesture of good faith...
Interesting choice of words.

Here's hoping those balls get appreciated and not whacked.
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7thirtyseven
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Re: Union at West Jet

Post by 7thirtyseven »

Mach1 wrote:
7thirtyseven wrote:Finally the truth of the matter is... laid their collective balls on the table in a not fully understood gesture of good faith...
Interesting choice of words.

Here's hoping those balls get appreciated and not whacked.
It has been my lifes experience that no one appreciates a set of balls quite like the owner of them does.
The silver lining would be a new run of "Owners Care" ads featuring a large boardroom table.....
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