Summit Ramp

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glorifieddriver
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Summit Ramp

Post by glorifieddriver »

Here seems to be an opportunity so many preach about: Going north. After some simple research on LinkedIn it is easily found that around two years must be spent in this company prior to an upgrade. My IFR and IATRA would expire long before this magic day comes, if it does. Who thinks that this would be a smart move to apply as a low timer
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Not to mention "previous ramp experience an asset....." Looking for somebody dumb enough to do it twice??
Must be willing to do drug and alcohol testing???
Company obviously unwilling to hire locally? Must hire brain dead pilots who think it's such a golden opportunity to spend upwards of two years forgetting how to fly.
Is PISS OFF too strong?
Illya
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Condorito
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Condorito »

I bet a bunch of knobs already applied...
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godsrcrazy
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by godsrcrazy »

My advise to you is if you want something bad enough you have to go get it. The chances that you will walk in drop a resume off and go directly into a flight position are limited to zero. Its your choice listen to all those on this forum that will tell you ramp jobs etc are slave labour, or just go after what you want by doing what ever you feel you have to do to achieve your goals.
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Condorito
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Condorito »

godsrcrazy wrote:My advise to you is if you want something bad enough you have to go get it. The chances that you will walk in drop a resume off and go directly into a flight position are limited to zero. Its your choice listen to all those on this forum that will tell you ramp jobs etc are slave labour, or just go after what you want by doing what ever you feel you have to do to achieve your goals.

There you have it folks. That's why this industry sucks.
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Roar
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Roar »

There you have it folks. That's why this industry sucks.[/quote]

This industry is no different than any other. I certainly have to disagree with you that it sucks.

I've had a great career thus far, I've always been paid well for the job I was doing had great experiences seen more of the world than I would have with any other job I can think of. Am able to afford a nice home , never had to leave my home town for a job. I'm very happy with aviation. I don't think I'm anything special just an average pilot doing a job I love.
If people are unhappy with their position in this industry I'd suggest that they find another career path or make better choices of what company they work for. It's not rocket science find a company you want to work at and go after it, be patient it will happen, and stay away from shady operators it's as simple as that.
It's indicative of society today that it's always someone else's fault if a person doesn't achieve what they want, if you're unhappy in this industry look in the mirror to find out why and make a change.
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Last edited by Roar on Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by esp803 »

I'm with Roar on this one.

E
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Boreas
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Boreas »

godsrcrazy wrote:My advise to you is if you want something bad enough you have to go get it. The chances that you will walk in drop a resume off and go directly into a flight position are limited to zero. Its your choice listen to all those on this forum that will tell you ramp jobs etc are slave labour, or just go after what you want by doing what ever you feel you have to do to achieve your goals.
If we had Lion Air like pay-to-fly schemes in Canada, my bet is that this guy would be the first apply...
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glorifieddriver
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by glorifieddriver »

These threads always turn into the same thing :smt014
I have spent my whole career on the ramp (well, in ground handling business to be precise) but not working towards a flying job. My positions have always provided me with a fun work environment, good pay, decent-ish lifestyle, heck I even got to travel some within Canada. I paid for my licenses and education out right with no loans thanks to these jobs. Now that I am very actively pursuing a flying job, I am still really on the ramp and I after all this time working the ramp I really rather not have to go from a high paying ramp job to a low paying one. I know how much fun it could be and all that, but really its just sometime I feel that enough is enough for me. I would not mind doing it a few years if the company would let you fly some days of the week or rotate something like 2 weeks fly/ 2 weeks ramp. Spending 2+ more years ramping after 100k+ in schooling is not the way I want to start out. Would I accept the job, may be. Its very simple, nobody else is calling what do you do? Keep on dreaming? Or take whats in front of you...
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

godsrcrazy wrote:My advise to you is if you want something bad enough you have to go get it. The chances that you will walk in drop a resume off and go directly into a flight position are limited to zero. Its your choice listen to all those on this forum that will tell you ramp jobs etc are slave labour, or just go after what you want by doing what ever you feel you have to do to achieve your goals.
If that means some time on your knees, so be it?
Directly into a flight position.....these are only limited because pilots are willing to be used. You spent 50K on a licence....
Illya
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trainboy
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by trainboy »

Illya, its getting tiring listening you bringing down pilots, specialy new pilots trying to make their way up in this industry. I am sure you had a perfect career so far and nobody could say anything on your way of doing things. The thing you don't understand is the supply and demand. The market couldnt care less if you paid 5k or 50k for your licenses. Fact is: there are way more pilots, specifically pilots with 250 hours. What happens when you got 50 brand new pilots for 1-2 positions available? Well first thing salary will decrease, conditions will decrease. That is the same thing in every other industry where the supply is greater than the demand. There is no exeption. If you had more jobs than pilots nobody would have to do the ramp. It will stay like this until the supply and demand changes. Why is that so hard to understand? Its frustrating to hear you about your perfect career and blasting the new pilots when all they are trying to do is get ahead of the 50 pilots in front of them. Its called surviving. And no i am not talking about people working for free, prostitutes. I am talking about good people trying to make their way up in a industry where there are far too many pilots. And its like that everywhere. Why do you think a electrician makes good money? Because the supply is low and demand is high. Simple. Imagine if the electrician course costed 50k? The supply would even be lower and the salary would guess what? Super high. Its not because i paid 50k for my damn license that i am entitled to anything. Supply and demand laws will dictate your salary and if you have to do the ramp or not. Of course nobody who just spent 50k on some licenses wants to do the ramp. Pardon my english, french is my first language.

TB
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godsrcrazy
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by godsrcrazy »

Illya Kuryakin wrote:
godsrcrazy wrote:My advise to you is if you want something bad enough you have to go get it. The chances that you will walk in drop a resume off and go directly into a flight position are limited to zero. Its your choice listen to all those on this forum that will tell you ramp jobs etc are slave labour, or just go after what you want by doing what ever you feel you have to do to achieve your goals.
If that means some time on your knees, so be it?
Directly into a flight position.....these are only limited because pilots are willing to be used. You spent 50K on a licence....
Illya
Face it there are more pilots then there are flying positions. The fact is with things like contrail and over priced consultants telling customers they need to demanding 2,000 plus hours as PIC and 500 for FO it is getting harder to get a job as a low timer. This is not all about low timers being used as slave labour. Some of this is simply about companies bringing people in giving them a job until they can build their hours were ever they can without loosing a contract because they are breaking the rules.

If you want to see people that pay a lot and get very little to fly check out the Rotary wings side of flying. They claim less then 2 out of every 10 will get a job and stay in the industry. Less then 1 out of 45 will get a direct entry flying job the rest all do 2 plus years on the ramp/ bush pushing barrels and hooking sling loads.These people spend minimum of 50G to get 100 hours thats on a piston helicopter. If you go Turbine its 75G minimum. All so you have 100 hours get to live in the bush and crap in a bucket. Funny you don't see these guys crapping all over companies that are willing to hire them.

Do i think any of this is right No i don't. Would i like to see it were if MOT signs of your licence then your good to go direct entry yes. The fact is it's just not going to happen.
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godsrcrazy
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by godsrcrazy »

Boreas wrote:
godsrcrazy wrote:My advise to you is if you want something bad enough you have to go get it. The chances that you will walk in drop a resume off and go directly into a flight position are limited to zero. Its your choice listen to all those on this forum that will tell you ramp jobs etc are slave labour, or just go after what you want by doing what ever you feel you have to do to achieve your goals.
If we had Lion Air like pay-to-fly schemes in Canada, my bet is that this guy would be the first apply...
How much do you want to lose.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

godsrcrazy wrote:
Face it there are more pilots then there are flying positions. The fact is with things like contrail and over priced consultants telling customers they need to demanding 2,000 plus hours as PIC and 500 for FO it is getting harder to get a job as a low timer. This is not all about low timers being used as slave labour. Some of this is simply about companies bringing people in giving them a job until they can build their hoursen.
There are more teachers than teaching positions. They TEACH or supply TEACH until they get on full time.
There are more lawyers than positions. They don't clean law offices, or wash law firm's cars.
Fact is, there is a surplus of educated people in most fields of endouver.
How would a pilot, working on a ramp build their hours? We should limit government funding to the aviation colleges so they are limited in the number of puppies they can pump out each year?
One of my kids wanted to go to Con College for pilot training......what a puppy mill that place is! The director admitted to me that the graduates "were not qualified (yes they ARE!...moron) to get jobs in aircraft, but would have to spend a year or two working ramps to gain EXPERIENCE...." Seriously? Close these places down. Or, at least limit thier funding.
Illya
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AWOS
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by AWOS »

I personally believe that guys without any flying experience outside of school should work a few months on the ramp as their first job. There are a lot of things one can learn working on the ramp or in the office in half a year and it allows the employer to evaluate the potential candidate. On top of that, ramp jobs aren't really that bad at companies that are worth working for. In fact, I made a bit more working on the ground than I do flying.

However, I feel like when some companies are asking their ground staff to have prior experience and/or 500+ hours, they are almost asking for those spoon-fed kids who got daddy to buy their hours or people who couldn't cut it at other companies. There's no reason someone with prior commercial flying experience should be looking for a ramp job unless they really messed up somewhere along the line.

The ramp is not a life sentence.
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Donald
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Donald »

Work the ramp for 2 years, get into a twin otter, dornier 228, then a Buffalo, maybe the dash 8, eventually the RJ85, fly all over the north into airports and off-strip/ice strips as well as ad hoc throughout Canada.....

Yeah, sounds bad, don't do it.
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by glorifieddriver »

Donald wrote:Work the ramp for 2 years, get into a twin otter, dornier 228, then a Buffalo, maybe the dash 8, eventually the RJ85, fly all over the north into airports and off-strip/ice strips as well as ad hoc throughout Canada.....

Yeah, sounds bad, don't do it.
Sounds fun, oh but wait you really highlight the potential flying, but not the 2+ years doing nothing but loading planes in -50 weather for minimum wage... Where is the fun in that? What if something changes in the market and major lay offs extend your stay well into 3rd, 4th year? What do you do then? You still have the same flying hours....
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

glorifieddriver wrote:
Donald wrote:Work the ramp for 2 years, get into a twin otter, dornier 228, then a Buffalo, maybe the dash 8, eventually the RJ85, fly all over the north into airports and off-strip/ice strips as well as ad hoc throughout Canada.....

Yeah, sounds bad, don't do it.
Sounds fun, oh but wait you really highlight the potential flying, but not the 2+ years doing nothing but loading planes in -50 weather for minimum wage... Where is the fun in that? What if something changes in the market and major lay offs extend your stay well into 3rd, 4th year? What do you do then? You still have the same flying hours....
That's what Donald does. Gets up in the morning, drinks a cup of "I'm just so wonderful, wish the world was as wonderful as me" coffee, dons his John Lenon rose coloured glasses, and spends his days singing Kumbya.
Illya
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Donald »

Thanks for the compliment Ilya, I prefer it to waking up and slagging everyone else's posts on here.

Consider the alternative, get out of school and start instructing? In 2 years, you have a couple hundred hours and you're looking for a job again. Will you get hired direct entry captain onto a twin turbine? Maybe, but probably not. Instead you'll be right seat, along with the rampie, who made as much money as you in the last 2 years (or more). That's assuming that you get hired.

Same for any other position where you are flying right away out of school. After a couple years, you are back in the job hunt.

Instead, at Summit, you have the ability to stay at one job. If you desire AC, WJ, or other airlines, you will be ticking off the multi, turbine, over 12.5, and jet boxes on the applications.

To each their own...have a great rose-coloured day!
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by TomC »

Donald wrote:Thanks for the compliment Ilya, I prefer it to waking up and slagging everyone else's posts on here.

Consider the alternative, get out of school and start instructing? In 2 years, you have a couple hundred hours and you're looking for a job again. Will you get hired direct entry captain onto a twin turbine? Maybe, but probably not. Instead you'll be right seat, along with the rampie, who made as much money as you in the last 2 years (or more). That's assuming that you get hired.

Same for any other position where you are flying right away out of school. After a couple years, you are back in the job hunt.

Instead, at Summit, you have the ability to stay at one job. If you desire AC, WJ, or other airlines, you will be ticking off the multi, turbine, over 12.5, and jet boxes on the applications.

To each their own...have a great rose-coloured day!
The alternative where you are flying, you are actually gaining experience. You are deluded if you think that is not better than working the ramp. If the company you are working for on the ramp goes tits up (not infrequent in 703), or the industry tanks, you have NOTHING. Noone cares where you worked the ramp. Instruct for a couple years, you probably have 1500 hours ATPL. Even if you start right seat, you check all the boxes for a quick upgrade. This is a no-brainer.

Tom
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

trainboy wrote:Illya, its getting tiring listening you bringing down pilots, specialy new pilots trying to make their way up in this industry. I am sure you had a perfect career so far and nobody could say anything on your way of doing things. The thing you don't understand is the supply and demand. The market couldnt care less if you paid 5k or 50k for your licenses. Fact is: there are way more pilots, specifically pilots with 250 hours. What happens when you got 50 brand new pilots for 1-2 positions available? Well first thing salary will decrease, conditions will decrease. That is the same thing in every other industry where the supply is greater than the demand. There is no exeption. If you had more jobs than pilots nobody would have to do the ramp. It will stay like this until the supply and demand changes. Why is that so hard to understand? Its frustrating to hear you about your perfect career and blasting the new pilots when all they are trying to do is get ahead of the 50 pilots in front of them. Its called surviving. And no i am not talking about people working for free, prostitutes. I am talking about good people trying to make their way up in a industry where there are far too many pilots. And its like that everywhere. Why do you think a electrician makes good money? Because the supply is low and demand is high. Simple. Imagine if the electrician course costed 50k? The supply would even be lower and the salary would guess what? Super high. Its not because i paid 50k for my damn license that i am entitled to anything. Supply and demand laws will dictate your salary and if you have to do the ramp or not. Of course nobody who just spent 50k on some licenses wants to do the ramp. Pardon my english, french is my first language.

TB
First off, your English is just perfect. Wish I spoke French!
I do understand supply and demand. I have a biz degree.
Many professions have the same issues......but they don't have people being used the same way.
Your example of the electrician is a very good one. As would be plumbing, and most trades. Nobody's going into them, and more are sorely needed.
There's just something about the continual preaching that pilots will gain valuable experience loading airplanes (etc.) that I have to call bull shit on.
Welcome to the nut house. Cheers.
Illya
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by PointyEngine »

My proposal is everyone who can't sell their soul instructing and get that precious passenger in command time, just throw their hands up, say it was too hard, I'm better than that, and leave aviation...
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Donald
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Donald »

What if, what if, what if. This game can be played all day long.

What if you do your flight instructor rating on the promise of a job, the school goes tits up?

What if the 703 that hires you to fly, goes tits up?

What if you do everything right, get to the airline, put in your right seat time, and they go tits up?

What if there is another SARS, or 9/11, or....

Original poster asked for opinions of Summit, my feeling is that it's a pretty good place to hang your hat and there are worse places to start.

That's it for me on this topic.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

What if?

What if Donald is a space alien?

Sorry...couldn't help it.

But it's a good point. We can, and do, what if ourselves to death.
Illya
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PointyEngine
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Re: Summit Ramp

Post by PointyEngine »

What if?

Illya is Justin Trudeau?

With the excessive verbal diarrhea and nonsensical comments, the evidence would back this hypothesis??

Jeepers.... :toimonster:

Or just knows which buttons to press to make that morning coffee a bit more entertaining!
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