What would you do? Advice needed

[FL-510]

Okay here is my situation,

I have been working as a flight instructor in BC for the past two years. Currently have 900TT and 150 twin pic hours....
Seems many operators find that instructing isn't the best experience and with all these lay offs going on in Alberta, manitoba.... Getting that first gig seems harder and harder...
I would have the opportunity to go up north, be a rampie or dispatcher for 3-6 months and then f/o on a medium turbo prop.

what do you guys think is the right step, roll the dice or play it safe with the instructor job.....?

Thanks

[photofly]

Do your students a favour and go up north.

[Beefitarian]

Salve?

How did you get the multi pic? It is valuable time. Just saying.

[FL-510]

I feel that I am a more than respectable class 2 instructor, wouldn't be doing students any favors....
I got the multi time by flight instructing.

[photofly]

Seems many operators find that instructing isn't the best experience

Words cannot describe how pleased I am to hear this. May every flight instructor who teaches merely to get a job with an operator rot in flight instructor hell for all eternity.

[FL-510]

Easy saying crap like that behind your computer screen eh?

[photofly]

The joy that flows through my veins, the sweet music that sings in my ears.... TO HELL! damn you all!

[FL-510]

Very constructive..... any other suggestions other than instructor bashing?

[photofly]

Yes. See my first post.

[BeaverDreaming]

Very constructive..... any other suggestions other than instructor bashing?

Go North. You'll learn way more and if you're lucky you'll even get paid.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Despite having time, you don't have experience. While the north is not the only place to get experience, it is the most common. With your 900 hours you are still going to start at the bottom, but you will likely advance faster than the guy with 200 hours.

[DanWEC]

Despite having time, you don't have experience. While the north is not the only place to get experience, it is the most common. With your 900 hours you are still going to start at the bottom, but you will likely advance faster than the guy with 200 hours.

I'll agree, while I've learned some very valuable lessons and habits as an instructor, I learned more about being operational in the first week of leaving instructing than in the previous two years in the observers seat. The thing is though, you learn pretty quick- and it's not rocket science. An operator shouldn't discount instructor experience much.

From what I've seen, the magic number for most of us instructors right now is around 1200 hours. Keep networking and building MPIC. That area of the country might be in a little downturn, so I'd look closely at SK, MB and ON. You're close, but if you had 1000 hrs Discovery air would be a good option for operational experience. Their minimums are hard, but they hire all the way through the season usually- but you don't want to leave a steady job for a seasonal one only lasting a month.

[PointyEngine]

Common guys stop bashing, "Passenger In Command" time still fills in the logbook just the same!!

[Beefitarian]

I am not pushing my point because I'm the town nut job of AvCanada ville, but... I am thinking another hundred multi pic would be juicy.

[Shiny Side Up]

In short, the music has stopped for a bit so hold onto your chair unless that instructing stuff is really corroding your soul that badly. I know everyone got used to the idea of some quick movement just like they got used to high oil prices, but everything goes up and down. Be patient.

[FL-510]

Go North. You'll learn way more and if you're lucky you'll even get paid.

I'm making 30k / year working as an FI and living at my parent's house .... I think my overall situation financially wouldn't be as good over there....

[lownslow]

Some companies are still catching up from being gutted by the Q400 operators this year so if you ask around enough you could get lucky. If they fly twins make sure you always mention the MPIC, they could have contracts requiring it and it's annoying for them to have to ask. Having said all that, 900TT sounds a little low. A thousand is better (obviously) but it seems to be exponentially better like that extra digit gets inside the CP's head. Psychology is weird.

Don't let these guys get you down on instructor time. Most of the pilots at my 703 are ex instructors and I suspect they were very good at it, not just the type to go for airplane rides every day. Sure they have things to learn on the line but they learn fast with the captains mentoring them because those captains used to be very good instructors. This is an example of the incestuous nature of flight training being used for good instead of evil. Anyways, if you have a good job right now and you're flying lots keep at it for a few more months. Take a look at what you need for your ATPL and get it done. You have enough time to write the exams but also take a look through your logbook and make sure all the experience requirements are there.

By 1500 TT based on current trends (no promises but maybe sooner) you ought to find yourself in the right seat of a small King Air or some such. Unless you're a tool, then I can't help you.

[schnitzel2k3]

It is certainly respectable that you have garnered a lot of respect from your students and colleagues, but...

Every post-instructor I've ever flown with, once they get into the big twin/turboprop has a moment of clarity. Prior to that they respond very much like you, essentially becoming very defensive of the instructor route.

Instructing, while a very common route for most new commercial pilots teaches not just the student, but also the instructor how to fly. It unfortunately misses a lot of aspects of next level flying. That is the crew concept and actual hands on, real world IFR where you HAVE to get from A to B. A 1000 hr instructor in many cases isn't any better in the right seat than a 250 hr because of the attitude they have developed, NOT the flying (even though that can be a problem too).

As photofly said, please do yourself and your students a favour. You've gained good time, now go grab that great experience. Find a respectable operator, make contact early on, establish a positive repertoire, and go into your new job with a humble outlook; that you know nothing. That will help you so much, you have no idea. Let your flying do the talking.

Have fun, be safe, and come back to instructing later on, after you've gain some valuable experience to pass onto your students.

S.

[PilotDAR]

"Passenger In Command" time still fills in the logbook just the same!!

It take more than a full logbook to make a good, safe, experienced pilot....

My advice is to be around the job you would like to have. If you want to fly twin turboprop, get a job, any job, with a company, the smaller the better, who operates them. If you are known, and close by, you're probably much closer to the pick list for the next pilot they need. All the while, you're getting to know the operation, and the people - they will be your allies when it comes time for the next hiring.

I have never in my life applied for a job, I have been asked to take on "the next assignment" because I was around, known, capable, and said "yes".

As for the north, the people who make their life there, will respect you more if you make your life there, and then apply for the job you want. Rather than only daring to commit to the north, when you think you see what you want from it....

Were I to be the Chief Pilot hiring, I would look with greater interest at the pilot applying, who had the majority of their 500 hours flying their beater C 150 or champ all over Canada, than a pilot who had 800 hours right seat in the circuit. This is not instructor bashing, its just me saying what type of flying I think makes the most well rounded pilot at the >1000 experience level.

[Rookie50]

"Passenger In Command" time still fills in the logbook just the same!!

It take more than a full logbook to make a good, safe, experienced pilot....

My advice is to be around the job you would like to have. If you want to fly twin turboprop, get a job, any job, with a company, the smaller the better, who operates them. If you are known, and close by, you're probably much closer to the pick list for the next pilot they need. All the while, you're getting to know the operation, and the people - they will be your allies when it comes time for the next hiring.

I have never in my life applied for a job, I have been asked to take on "the next assignment" because I was around, known, capable, and said "yes".

As for the north, the people who make their life there, will respect you more if you make your life there, and then apply for the job you want. Rather than only daring to commit to the north, when you think you see what you want from it....

Were I to be the Chief Pilot hiring, I would look with greater interest at the pilot applying, who had the majority of their 500 hours flying their beater C 150 or champ all over Canada, than a pilot who had 800 hours right seat in the circuit. This is not instructor bashing, its just me saying what type of flying I think makes the most well rounded pilot at the >1000 experience level.

Personally, I read this as awesome advice to anyone starting out. (I'm just under the OP's TT) Every word. I'm not employed in the industry, but I've learned so much about weather, flight planning, ect. since I bought my plane and started doing volunteer flying for Hope Air in Northern Ontario, among other long trips. I feel comfortable on my own out there, and I think that takes a little time.

[Skythings]

I have worked for several 703 - 704 & 705 operators over the years. Something I have noticed are the folks with an Flight Instructor background very often become very valuable in the flight training side of these operations. They know how to develop and present ground schools, organize training records, help out in the sim. A great place for a low timer to get noticed is when they take the initiative to learn a specific field such as GPS nav systems, survival training etc etc. Approach the Chief Pilot and offer to help with the training. Eventually these Instructors become Training Captains at airlines. I have watched many previous Flight Instructors accelerate within commercial operations and quickly become a valuable resource to the ownership.

Embrace your past valuable Flight Instructor experience and use it as a tool to excelerate your future.

Cheers

[iflyforpie]

Yep, because selecting flaps and gear and making radio calls while you are being babysat and the plane flies on autopilot, like, gives you SOOOOOOOOOO much more experience.

Yes, that is a gross misrepresentation of what a turboprop f/o does.... just like calling instructing time 'passenger in command'.

[FL-510]

A lot of good advice here, doesnt make my decision any easier.... Both ways have their pros and cons
Leaving a flying job for a ground job is a gamble but it could pay off!

[Meatservo]

Where I work, every year there are a couple of new ramp workers taking the place of the ones who were trained that year on aircraft. One year, one of these new guys had about 900 hours as an instructor. I felt a bit sorry for him privately because he already had flying time and I thought it was a bummer that he had to work on the ramp. Well he did work on the ramp, but once he started flying he did very well indeed. By the time he left for a large airline he had gone from being a ground-crew to F.O. on a little plane, to being F.O. on a big one (size of a dash 8 or a hawker 748 lets say) and finally the captain on that, in a relatively short amount of time, and he was reputed to be a very good pilot.

The new pilots have a lot of obstacles once they start flying. From flying-school, they are unused to flying from the right seat, they are not current, and they do not find it easy to adapt to a new, bigger aircraft because they likely have only ever flown two kinds of plane in their whole lives. You do not have these problems. I predict that if you can swallow your pride and take that entry-level position at an air service, it will not take long for them to find a plane for you, and once they do, you will impress the training pilot, outclass your peers and probably be promoted faster within the company, depending on your attitude. You'll qualify for your ATPL before anyone else will, for one thing.

This all has to do with your attitude. The guy I'm talking about never mentioned his amount of flying time while he worked on the ramp. He never acted like he thought he was entitled to what he was working for. People thought he was a good guy.

Hours in the logbook tell people that you have experience. Sometimes you can parlay that experience into a better entry-level job, and sometimes you just have to trust that your experience will allow you to do better, without it necessarily seeming to give you an edge right at the beginning.

[PositiveRate27]

You're a pilot contemplating walking away from solid MPIC? It sounds to me like a case of being impatient more than anything. I went the instructor route. I never worked a day on the ground and I never logged a single hour of MPIC as an instructor. The 704 jobs will come. You're probably a year away from qualifying from the job you want. It'll be a lot longer if you leave now and work a ramp. This time next year the hiring landscape will be completely different. you need to hang in there and get over 1200hrs. You're close, just put the time in.

As a professional pilot, never walk away from a flying job to work a ramp. Especially MPIC.

Best of luck!

PR