Beech 1900 is now single pilot approved

[andy_mtl]

Greetings all

Something happened to a co worker of mine, and got us to learn that as of 2012 the beech 1900 wether pax or cargo is now single pilot approved for commercial operation.

Apparently tc had not made any announcement till July 2014.
However, it was quite shocking to hear this. First i had not heard anything about it till last week.

Did anyone know about this ?

Also whats your opinion on it?

I find a 1900 is alot of plane and alot of people to be flying around in imc and so on, but thats just my opinion.

Andy

[N181CS]

The afm states it's single pilot passengers and cargo, if passengers are aboard and more then 9 seats are installed the excess must be placared out of service. Can not be used in airline operations single pilot.

[andy_mtl]

Fair , i wasnt aware of that as i never flew one.

However, if it was in the afm, that it could be flown single pilot, why did they use to consider it multi crew licensing wise?
Meaning if you have you iatra or written AAs , it used to validate them but not anymore.

Thanks,

Andy

[xsbank]

"Cannot be used in airlines...single pilot..."

[JMACK]

It is over 12500 and you need a type rating should still lock in your ATPL when you get enough time!

Where did you read that it won't can you put a link in please. Very interesting.

J

[Nark]

A ton of operators fly the 1900 single pilot. It's not a super airplane...

[andy_mtl]

It was following the application for a tr that transport got in touch and said those AAs exams were not valid beccause they were written more than 24 months ago.
However there was a 1900 tr on said license.
And according to tc that tr wasnt a multi crew tr so the exams were expired.

Mind you, i hold an Mu2 tr, and that one is a high performance non multi crew Tr

Andy

[Meatservo]

A ton of operators fly the 1900 single pilot. It's not a super airplane...

Well there actually ARE a lot of super aeroplanes that are single pilot.

[oldtimer]

Any airplane with between 10 and 19 paying passengers must have two (human) pilots. If the airplane is restricted to a maximum of 9 passengers, is certified for a minimum crew of one (human) pilot, the airplane has a servicable autopilot plus other restictions and the air carrier has the proper Ops Spec that allows single pilot operations and the pilot has the proper PPC, then the airplane can be operated by one pilot.
Most Beech 1900, Jetstream 31/32 and Metro airplanes purchased new by USA carriers and carrying more than 9 passengers must have 2 pilots but only one has to have a type rating therefore most bottom feeders put a marginally trained pilot in the right seat for passeger safety and dispense with the autopilot. That is why most airplanes of this type have marginal instrumentation on the right side. The right seater is more or less a voice activated autopilot/ cookey pusher.

[JBI]

I remember looking at this last year after I got my B1900 (BE02) rating on my licence. When you look at Transport Canada's Type Designator list
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 7-1396.htm it lists the Beech 1900's minimum crew as only one pilot. Yet, I distinctly remember looking at this standard previously and it said that the B1900 minimum crew (in Canada) was 2 pilot. This meant that a type rating on the 1900 used to 'freeze' the ATPL exams - meaning they no longer expired after two years.

Something to keep in mind as I know that there are a lot of 1900 operators out there who are still under the impression that a Beech 1900 rating will 'freeze' your ATPL written exams so that they won't expire. However, that no longer appears to be the case. Best to just assume that the exams are only valid for 24 months.

Also, for getting your ATPL, it's important on any PPC ride, the examiner is sure to mark off that the ride fulfills the IFR ride requirements. AND, technically, the ride must be in an aeroplane (NOT IN A SIM) - some TC officials will follow this, others have let it slide. If you ask me, this is just about the most ridiculous requirement for an ATPL (second only to the Night X-Country PIC).

[andy_mtl]

By saying not a Sim, do you also imply a level D sim?

Andy

[Meatservo]

If you ask me, this is just about the most ridiculous requirement for an ATPL (second only to the Night X-Country PIC).

Yeah, who would want an "Airline" pilot to have any experience flying at night? You kids crack me up- always wanting things to come easy.

[oldtimer]

The manufacturer says the 1900 is a single pilot airplane but the Operations In Canada suppliment to the AFM says it is a two pilot airplane. At least it does for the Beech 350, same airplane category. Maybe the second pilot has only a PCC or is assigned in-flight duties ans as such is not part of the minimum flight crew (cargo?)
the Air Operator has to have single pilot authority.

[jspitfire]

By saying not a Sim, do you also imply a level D sim?

Andy

I just went over all of this with transport, level C and D sims are acceptable, any "Flight Training device," which have levels 1-6, are not.

The manufacturer says the 1900 is a single pilot airplane but the Operations In Canada suppliment to the AFM says it is a two pilot airplane. At least it does for the Beech 350, same airplane category. Maybe the second pilot has only a PCC or is assigned in-flight duties ans as such is not part of the minimum flight crew (cargo?)
the Air Operator has to have single pilot authority.

I completed a captain ride, done by a TC examiner, in the Kingair 350 without an ATPL, nor all of the hour requirements to get one. I was able to do this because it's listed as a single pilot airplane.

Also with the new IFR rating regs, you can use an IPC for your ATPL instead of a 'ride', even though from what I understand they're essentially the same.

J

[andy_mtl]

Thanks J

That clarifies it!

Andy

[single_swine_herder]

It is over 12500 and you need a type rating should still lock in your ATPL when you get enough time!

Where did you read that it won't can you put a link in please. Very interesting.

J

Excuse my ignorance, but what does being "over 12,500" have to do with anything?

It needs a Type Rating because it is Single Pilot Certified and has a VMO of 250 Kts or greater ...... at least that's my understanding, but its been a while since concerned myself with the criteria.

SSH

[JMACK]

It is over 12500 and you need a type rating should still lock in your ATPL when you get enough time!

Where did you read that it won't can you put a link in please. Very interesting.

J

Excuse my ignorance, but what does being "over 12,500" have to do with anything?

It needs a Type Rating because it is Single Pilot Certified and has a VMO of 250 Kts or greater ...... at least that's my understanding, but its been a while since concerned myself with the criteria.

SSH

Might be my ignorance, I thought anything over 12500 up to 300000 LBS qualified as a medium Transport and required a TR???

[CID]

Over 12,500 takes it out of normal category. The type certificate says minimum crew is "1 pilot unless otherwise required by operating rules."

[co-joe]

A ton of operators fly the 1900 single pilot. It's not a super airplane...

What do you mean by that?

As in it's not a "super King Air"? Are you sure it's not super, just not super duper?

[single_swine_herder]

Might be my ignorance, I thought anything over 12500 up to 300000 LBS qualified as a medium Transport and required a TR???

I took a moment to look it up and since about the mid-90s when the CARs came into being, the term "Twelve five" hasn't had anything to do with licensing.... it depends on the number of pilots and/or the performance of the aircraft whether a Type Rating (No, it it isn't an "endorsement") is required,

(2) Individual Type Ratings

An individual aircraft type rating is issued for aircraft not included in a blanket type rating. It is indicated by the appropriate aircraft type designator from Appendix A found at the end of this Subpart, endorsed on a permit or licence as follows:
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

(a) Aeroplanes
(i) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots;
(ii) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots utilizing a cruise relief pilot;
(iii) each high performance aeroplane type to be endorsed on a pilot licence - aeroplane category;
(iv) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a flight engineer licence;
(v) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a second officer rating; and
(vi) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a licence for which no blanket type rating is issued.
(amended 2005/06/01; previous version)

[Nark]

A ton of operators fly the 1900 single pilot. It's not a super airplane...

What do you mean by that?

As in it's not a "super King Air"? Are you sure it's not super, just not super duper?

It's not a mythical airplane that requires two pilots to fly it safely.

I've never flown it nor do I care too.
I once had a 1900C sized carrot dangling in front of my nose. Told the boss to pound sand, I'd rather be an RJ FO.

[JBI]

If you ask me, this is just about the most ridiculous requirement for an ATPL (second only to the Night X-Country PIC).

Yeah, who would want an "Airline" pilot to have any experience flying at night? You kids crack me up- always wanting things to come easy.

This is the first time I've been called a kid in a long time - thanks!... I think .

Not sure how one could infer that I was a) young or b) always wanting things to come easy from my post. I also can't really see how your post has anything to do with the original topic. Nonetheless, I have no issue with the night requirement for the ATPL. I thoroughly agree that an "Airline" pilot should have experience flying at night. My post did not suggest otherwise. However, the night X-Country PIC time at only 25 hours is a a silly requirement. Either, a significant amount of actual PIC night time is necessary for a certain skill requirement for the ATP licence or, if not required, a higher number of hours as co-pilot night cross country is sufficient. 25 hours seems to be a small, somewhat arbitrary number when compared to the overall experience required for the ATPL.

While I'd be happy to discuss how getting my ATPL was anything but something that "came easy", I think there may be some kids on your lawn that you need to yell at.

[bobcaygeon]

B1900D was always single pilot. TC stopped the 2 crew supplement fad in the early 90's.
The 1900C was 2 crew in Canada because that's was TC's fad was in the 80's. They did it for the Metro 3 also but not the Metro 23 as well.

They've both always been 2 crew in the US. It only took a little communication with TC/manufacturer by the EIC group to get the 2 crew restriction removed.

It's designed for Single pilot, who needs an FO to haul bags?

It also helped removed the requirement for an ATPL.

It always was TC BS

[linecrew]

Random fact, Ameriflight operates both the Beech 1900Cs and Metros single pilot for freight. My friends that fly Metros in Canada are always surprised when I tell them this.

[turbo-prop]

It is over 12500 and you need a type rating should still lock in your ATPL when you get enough time!

Where did you read that it won't can you put a link in please. Very interesting.

J

Excuse my ignorance, but what does being "over 12,500" have to do with anything?

It needs a Type Rating because it is Single Pilot Certified and has a VMO of 250 Kts or greater ...... at least that's my understanding, but its been a while since concerned myself with the criteria.

SSH

1900 has a Vmo of 248kts