Seaplane down in China

[rigpiggy]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/seaplane-cras ... html?nhp=1

Weren't these folks recruiting on here?

[rigpiggy]

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/soci ... aily.shtml

Video in the link. About 500m, and 8 seconds into take off run

[North Shore]

[There but for the grace of god..] Short of an engine failure at the most inopportune time, how the hell do you hit a bridge? It's not like it jumps out in front of you at the last minute..

ETA: My sympathy to the families of those involved.

[PilotDAR]

Hear hear North Shore! Putting the power up for takeoff ten seconds back of an obstacle, is just wrong.

[180]

Condolences to all those involved.

Looks like a very tight spot to be operating based on what appears from the video to be a 90 degree step taxi turn during the final stages of the take-off run.

Wonder if he forgot the flaps, realized it at the last second, and then dropped them hoping he would finally be airborne before the bridge?

Regardless if that was the situation or not here, a good lesson to take home is rolling a float in tight confines...when that first float breaks the water, you know you'll be flying within another second or three. Float's not lifting and the end of the lake (or a bridge) is rapidly filling your windshield?
Reject, max reverse, and push that nose forward. (In a turbine of course.)

Rolling a float takes the guess work out of "how much longer until I fly?"

[geodoc]

Grim

http://www.sixthtone.com/news/fatalitie ... hai-bridge





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['97 Tercel]

Brutal

I can't believe the pilot lived!

[PilotDAR]

It does not look as though the plane was even close to getting over the bridge. In my opinion, that should have been recognized as a "not possible" takeoff much further back, and aborted. Failing to get off the water is one thing, but failing to abort with that much bridge in front of you, and time to realize it's not going to work, is embarrassing.

[geodoc]

The plane took off a little after noon, and just a minute later, the plane suddenly veered left, accelerated, and crashed into the bridge,according to news reporter Wu Liangliang of Chinese website KNews. Wu had been sitting in the last row of the cabin.

“I heard the co-pilot say ‘Bridge!’ and then the plane crashed,” Wu said. “It was like a dream.”

Wu said the plane should have flown parallel to the bridge, but for some reason it suddenly made a 90-degree turn to the left. Passengers on the plane were thrown from their seats, he added.

[DHC2eater]

As we float pilots learn,are taught and know,.....a float plane wants to go left especially when coming up onto the step,,,,, with feeling......the caravan EX with big engine and small rudder requires right rudder all the way to the floor until you are on the step and accelerating......if your seat isn't forward enough for your short legs to get that done,you will go hard left with no option but to reduce power...and start over again!

Wipaire demonstrates and teaches this on it's checkouts on the Caravan also with feeling!

Eater

[porcsord]

I never found the EX to require full rudder for take off. Also, there were two pilots on board... the fact that one didn't punch the other, take control, reject with full reverse and digging the floats is shocking.

[ragbagflyer]

I'm inclined to not over analyze this one. I think it starts and ends with poor piloting. Knowing when to pull the pin and try again is critical skill of bush/float flying that was clearly lacking in this case. Over here folks with decision making like this don't tend to get beyond a cessna 180. I'm assuming this wasn't an expat crew?

[Mick G]

Too bad they hit dead center on the pilings; couple feet the other way and the center of the plane might have survived less the wings......could have been more survivors.

In the end though, it is clearly pilot error or lack of training. I wonder if China has float endorsement/ratings like we do here?

[geodoc]

I'm assuming this wasn't an expat crew?

"The plane’s captain Zhang Fuquan had a surgery on his right leg but his condition remains serious, said Shen Jie, a doctor at Jinshan Hospital. Zhang remains in intensive care unit."

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/soci ... aily.shtml

[lazyeight]

Well that's a sure fire way to bury any future of float flying in China for the next few years...

Really sad.

[I_Heart_Seaplanes]

Link to accident location. They literally had a mile of space to backtrack for this takeoff....

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/208+Li ... 121.349881

[goldeneagle]

From what I read, it was the inaugural flight for a new operation. Makes me wonder if the pilot(s) had ever flown a caravan with a load on, or, if they were expecting it to perform the same way it did empty during training ?

[geodoc]

Hmmmm. This article refers to the pilot: "The pilot, 63, has an accumulated flight time of over 30,000 hours." No information as to what nationality. At odds with what was reported elsewhere. One on-line report described the pilot as being 24 Y.O.

Guess it will take some time for the actual details to come to light.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016 ... 166783.htm

Hope to talk to a friend later this week who knows the guy that ferried the airplanes from the US > China for Joy Air. Maybe get a little more info then.


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[geodoc]

I never found the EX to require full rudder for take off. Also, there were two pilots on board... the fact that one didn't punch the other, take control, reject with full reverse and digging the floats is shocking.

Was that an EX on floats?

In conversation with a friend in the floatplane business who knows & has employed the ferry pilot that delivered Joy Air's EX's, he mentioned that the SOP he uses for water T/O is full right rudder trim & full right rudder and initiate T/O with the heading ~20 degrees to the right of the intended T/O direction.

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[porcsord]

with the heading ~20 degrees to the right of the intended T/O direction.

If he's doing that, he's doing something wrong. The EX will hold a perfectly straight take off line, and it capable of turning either way on the slide.

[geodoc]

with the heading ~20 degrees to the right of the intended T/O direction.

If he's doing that, he's doing something wrong. The EX will hold a perfectly straight take off line, and it capable of turning either way on the slide.

Empty or fully loaded w/ an aft CG as well?

My only C208 experience is with the Caravan I and 675 (floats). Interested.




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[porcsord]

Empty or fully loaded w/ an aft CG as well?

My only C208 experience is with the Caravan I and 675 (floats). Interested.

The 8750's are infinitely better at turning than the 8000's. The added length in the body makes a big difference in rudder authority. On amphibs for example you can actually steer with the rudder on the grand, as opposed to the baby which really requires breaks. It's a much more capable aircraft (the EX), however, you can't fix stupid as seen above.

[DHC2eater]

It's a single engine float plane with lots of HP and the four items that all want it to go left when coming up on the water and onto the step!.......maybe throw in a little wind from the left also.....

Do we remember what those things are??????

The guy that uses the 20 degree lead knows what he's talking about without question......I use that all the time.....it's a basic !!!.

Eater

[PilotDAR]

The twenty degree to the right trick will work, and I too use it from time to time. Indeed in my flying boat, I will often begin my takeoff run 180 degrees to the right of the intended departure path. 'Works just fine! However, in the case of this accident, that was not a factor. In my opinion, this was simply monumentally poor judgement as to where to begin a takeoff, and then worse judgement to not realize that it was not even close to going to succeed. That plane was not even on the step when it hit the bridge, much less trying to get airborne off the step.

Piloting skill in based in large part on the judgement to know what the aircraft can safely do, and thereafter, the skill to fly it that way. I think that the accident pilot demonstrated a large lack of both. If in doubt, take more space, and take more time, or decline.

[SheriffPatGarrett]

That should make you realize some people should not fly airplanes...
They will, like in that case, freeze at the wrong time, or
porpoise(pilot induced oscillations on a flying boat) etc...