Best Bear gun?

This forum has been developed to discuss Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service topics.

Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Rudder Bug

Post Reply
Doc
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 9241
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am

Best Bear gun?

Post by Doc »

With the recent rash of bear attacks on peoples of late, it makes one wonder if they should "pack heat"? I'm thinking a Ruger Blackhawk. In .44 Magnum 4 5/8 inch stainless. I like the safety features of a SA "hog-leg"! You can leaver the hammer down on an empty chamber, leaving five rounds. With the new more modern single actions, it's safe with six....but I still like the empty chamber. Besides, if you cant do the job with five, you deserve to be eaten!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rudy
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:00 am
Location: N. Ont

Post by Rudy »

Funny you should say that. Just got an email from a friend working in a camp in Northern Quebec. A bear came into camp when she was there alone (cook) and she left off 5 rounds without scratching it. :roll: So I guess it is possible. What about the Ruger .480?
---------- ADS -----------
 
rigpiggy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2949
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: west to east and west again

Post by rigpiggy »

12 ga. pump shotgun 1st rd rubber buck. then alternate 00 buck and slugs. Good luck getting a carry permit in Canada. Even if there is a need.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Doc
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 9241
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am

Post by Doc »

The Ruger .480, along with the .454 Cassal (sp) and the new .500 S&W are far to hot for all but seasoned handgunners to handle. Your recovery time between rounds (time to reaquire target) would be too great. Even the .44 magnum is a bit of a streatch. A .41 mag, or even a full house .357 would do the job on a black bear in the right hands. Anything less would not be advised. Dont even think of a 9mm, or a .40 S&W. No jam!
I'm going with hand guns because of accessibleity (sp). To much chance of a bear encounter while the rifle is in the cabin! Kind of useless there! And, I'm going with revolvers because they never jam. An auto loader might jam unless it's kept clean and lubed. For me, a single action works best, but I'd advise most to go for a double action. Under stress situations (a bear is actually munching on your leg) untrained folks have often forgotten to cock a single action between rounds!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
medby
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:38 am

Post by medby »

.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by medby on Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
. ._
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7374
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Cowering in my little room because the Water Cooler is locked.
Contact:

Post by . ._ »

I just found a picture of Doc.

Image

I hate it when that pesky bear steals my pick-a-nick basket! Blast his brains out!

-istp :wink:
---------- ADS -----------
 
rigpiggy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2949
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: west to east and west again

Post by rigpiggy »

medby, I grew up north of 60 the reason for buck/slug is because when it's that close and personal read hi stress you want to increase your hit probabilty. I think this was covered before. btw a pistol grip riot gun has a much larger chance of hitting what you aim for than any one hand pistol

from march 2004
Doc, thought I was still logged on. BTW where did you grow up? I've spent most of my life north of 60. My family owns an outfitting company, and I've spent lots of time around members of the ursine persuasion. I've worked in both the mining and logging industry.

I'm not even going to go into the circumstances , but rest assured the situation required the cull. I now work down south, and would happily return to the North.

A 357 is a piss poor bear gun. I wonder how you got a carry permit. We prefer not to have to kill bears, the camp gun for feeding the horses, or other chores, is a mossberg 500 w/7 rd tube. 1 flashbang, 1 rubber slug , and a mix of slugs and 00 buck.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Doc
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 9241
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am

Post by Doc »

Hey, we've had this chat before! The .357 is a shitty bear gun! Yes it is! BUT, it's WAY better than NO gun at all! And I'm talking BLACK bears here BOY, pay attention, BOY! For that grizzly type bear...then I like the biggest thing I can carry! .375 H&H would work! Or a .458 mag?

Maybe that nut case's "bear-suit"? That'd work....is he still around?
---------- ADS -----------
 
I_Drive_Planes
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Prince George

Post by I_Drive_Planes »

I'm not a big fan of shotguns for grizzly bears. Slugs are great for black bears, but I wouldn't use buckshot to defend myself against anything four legged. Slugs have very poor penetration, and the terminal performance of buckshot is not good at all due to the poor sectional density of a round projectile. A wounded grizzly bear is a very scary prospect. A heavy rifle, shooting heavy for calibre bullets is really the best solution. The problem with a heavy rifle of course is that it's well... heavy. Personally I have built a highly modified Lee-Enfield no.5 mkI. (barely legal barrel and recontoured and lightened stock, it weighs less than 5 lbs fully loaded) I shoot hand loaded 215 grain Woodleigh Weldcores (a friend of mine reloads). I haven't had to use it on a bear yet, but I did shoot a 1300 lb moose last fall and it hit rather like a freight train. I realize that the .303 isn't the best bear cartridge on the planet but the rifles are cheap (I think I traded a bottle of Gibson's for the one that I based this gun on), they are the fastest bolt action ever created, compact, and easy to carry.

If I were actually going after grizzlies I would be looking at a .375 h&h, or something of that nature (all my money goes into flying airplanes though, so I don't have anything left over for that, otherwise I have a p.14 Enfield that is just begging for a .375 conversion)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Canus Chinookus
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:30 pm

Post by Canus Chinookus »

a handgun will just piss off the bear, unless you can put a bulet through it's eye. The way to go is a 12 gauge, as said previously, loaded with 00 and slugs. Don't waste your time with blanks, because a slug is just as noisy, and god forbid, if you need it, it's first out.
---------- ADS -----------
 
. .
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2670
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:53 am

Post by . . »

Desert eagle .50 would be a pretty expensive toy to carry around. You can be sure that would get anything this side of a locomotive to think about turning around and running away.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rigpiggy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2949
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: west to east and west again

Post by rigpiggy »

I think the big thing here is that it is next to impossible to get a carry permit for a handgun in canada!!!!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Doc
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 9241
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am

Post by Doc »

Ah, yes...the carry permit. One must be willing to "pay the piper" if the old "hog leg" is discovered in one's backpack. I, however would rather be "tried by twelve, than carried by six", so I'll take my chances. A handgun descreatly tucked away with eassy access in my pack is the way I go. I ain't hunting, so there would be no reason to "bear arms" until the bear arms!
Just looking at an ad in Guns and Ammo....Ruger has a new snub nose out in .480 Ruger called the "Alaskan".....guess they target salmon fishermen. But you wont see it in Canada...you cant even get a four incher, let alone a "belly" gun.
But, we live in Canada. And we'd rather spend two billion on gun regestration than reequip our armed forces with a replacement for the Herc (it's an aviation forum...hehehe....I mentioned an airplane) to suck up to the stupid mindless wonders, in the 416 and 905 area codes, who live under the mistaken impression, that the gun regestry will cure the problems created by "Guido" the killer pimp/crack dealer, down by the corner! These are the very same jerk-offs that brought about the demise of the spring bear hunt in north-western Ontario (that most in the 416 or 905 area codes couldn't even find on a map!) which is a major factor in the increased bear problem! We have lost more people to bears here this year than to the (famous....even in 416/905 land) West Nile virus!!
But I just know that Canada will someday allow us to marry our Golden Retievers!
---------- ADS -----------
 
neechi
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:04 pm

Post by neechi »

SKS with a folding stock.

Cheap-165 bucks plenty of surplus from yugo army.
Low maintence high reliablity factor
Semi auto- 5 shot one in the chamber and stripper clips for a fast reload.
Semi compact, could fit in knapsak if you had the barrel out the top.
Lots of aftermarket parts and accesories.


And the best part....if your a shitty shot or the bear is deaf and doesnt run away you can use the bayontte to stab the cack sucker.
---------- ADS -----------
 
c_172pilot
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:19 pm

Post by c_172pilot »

I carry a .357 Mag leagaly. It took a while to get the permit, but it can be done. As far as the .357 being a crappy bear gun I tend to disagree. But then again I dont get into grizz country too often. It will work on blacks and cougars but it isnt very good bear medicine. I use 186 grain Hornady XTP (xtream terminal penitration) with winchester 296 powder. I get a speed of about 1800ft per sec. That is plently of stoping power for what we have down south. I know a .308 or even the .30-30 is faster but they are hard to pack on the hip.

I have never needed my gun. I was stalked by a cougar before :shock: Not the kind that hang out in toronto! Walking back to the plane an seeing cougar prints in your foot prints is not very comforting.

As far as BEST guns for grizz, well the S&W makes a great stopper. 400 grain bullets are going to make a big mess. But you need to handel the recoil. I can hit a 12" ram at 75 yards with one. But that is only 1 shot never tried 6 in quick sucsession. The 12 gauge with slug, OO, Slug is popular and with the 3" magnum ammo out now could be a good stoper. The problem with shot guns is they are hard to carry.

Freinds of myne recommend a .22, they are light easy to carry and cheap. If you see a bear shoot your buddie/ passanger in the knee and run. Hopefully it will take a while for the bear to finish with them. Allowing you to get a way. Then again a big spear works well too!

If you are looking at getting a gun, specificaly a handgun stay away from anything less than .357. Smaller than that wont do the job. Stay away from semi autos. Those are for gansters and kids who play video games. The number of times I have seen a 44 DE jam isnt even funny. If you cant do it in six then there is no point in trying.

If you have anyquestions about geting a permit to carry feel free to PM me I can help you through the process.
---------- ADS -----------
 
c_172pilot
Aviation is proof, that given the will,
we have the capacity to achieve the impossible."
Canus Chinookus
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:30 pm

Post by Canus Chinookus »

c_172pilot wrote:Freinds of myne recommend a .22, they are light easy to carry and cheap. If you see a bear shoot your buddie/ passanger in the knee and run. Hopefully it will take a while for the bear to finish with them. Allowing you to get a way. Then again a big spear works well too!
Image
:lol:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Canus Chinookus on Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Doc
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 9241
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am

Post by Doc »

SKS with a folding stock? Cheap, light, small and cheap to feed. Good plan! I do like lever guns, like a Marlin in 45/70 government. That should stop even Yogi hisself!! Isn't an SKS a varient of an AK? Only made in China? A mini 14 in NATO would be cheap to feed....but bigger $$ Not much into long guns though. I dont hunt, and they are big heavy things to carry around....and I'm kind of a lazy guy...ask anyone!
---------- ADS -----------
 
c_172pilot
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:19 pm

Post by c_172pilot »

I figured I would answer all the PMs online that way it is here if anyone is looking for the information later.

To get a wilderness protection permit you basicaly have to prove two things. 1. A real need to protect yourself from wild animals. 2. Your proficency with said firearm.

The first step is to get a Restricted PAL (posession and aqusition liscence). This will allow you to own restricted firearms (hand guns, short rifles, "black" guns). The training can be done at most Fish and Game clubs or any out door store (not Canadian Tire or Walmart).

Once you have your PAL you need an restricted firearm that you can use for wilderness defence. Once all that paperwork is done you need to get an ATT (authorization to Transport) This will allow you to take your firearm to and from the range.

Practice, practice, practice. You wil need to hit a 4" bull at 50 yards. Sounds easy but it isnt. Use light loads and build up. If you have a .357 mag go with .38 spl rounds till you can hit it every time then move up to full house loads. Same with a .44 mag, use .44 spl till you are good.

When you are good enough get the form from the local Firearms officer. There number is found online. They will send you a form to fill out that outlines your type of work and why you need to carry a handgun. There is also a section on proficency. This will have to be completed by an examener. He will test your abilty to shoot, rapid sucsession and from differnt postitions.

Once all the "i"s are dotted and the "T"s are crossed send in the paper and they will come back to you with either aproval or a denial. This can take up to 8 weeks. It would seem that where you are has a lot to do with your chances of sucsess. I am in BC and I had very little trouble getting my permit. I have freinds in Ont and Que. They have been denied 3 times all ready.

The stipulations on my liscence are I can only carry when I am greater than 25nm from the center of town. And acting as an employee of my company. When I am with in 25nm it has to be locked up and stored where it is not easly accesible or identifyable.

Good luck

BTW SKS or Mini 14s are too small to be effective. You want a realy big hole going in and out. Most combat rifles of modern desing are ment to just injure a soldier not kill him. That way resources are used to keep him alive. I dont recomend anything semi auto. Risks are too great of causing a jam. That is why I carry a wheel gun (revolver), never had it jam on me in the 5 years I have been shoting it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
c_172pilot
Aviation is proof, that given the will,
we have the capacity to achieve the impossible."
Doc
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 9241
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am

Post by Doc »

Had a look at a Winchester Defender at my local gun dealer today. A small (but still able to degest 3" magnums) fast handleing shotty gun. It should roll up in my three star, and when in the field, on a strap should be fast and effective! I'm not a shot gun fan.....but.....this thing has my attention. Takes eight rounds! If it's still moving after eight twelve guage slugs....well, then you can consider yourself EATEN!!!
Nobody would even consider hunting wiht the thing, so my lack of a hunting licence should not be an issue!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Over the Horn
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:28 pm
Contact:

Post by Over the Horn »

ocasionally I carry my remington model 7400 30-06 its got an 18 inch barrel easy to shoot and packs a good punch. just wondering if anyone else has noticed that bears like fuel caches I've sean lots of bear sign around them before, but never a bear yet! 8)
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
hazatude
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:02 pm
Location: Hamilton
Contact:

Post by hazatude »

---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Driving Rain
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2696
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
Contact:

Post by Driving Rain »

I was listening to a "Bear Biologist" on the radio the other day say that black bears kill 4 people to every 1 that brown bears or Grizzly's kill. I wonder why that is? More Black bears maybe.
How come you never see trained black bears or polar bears, only brown bears or Grizzlies get the training?
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5683
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Post by altiplano »

-
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by altiplano on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5683
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Post by altiplano »

Driving Rain wrote:I was listening to a "Bear Biologist" on the radio the other day say that black bears kill 4 people to every 1 that brown bears or Grizzly's kill. I wonder why that is? More Black bears maybe.
How come you never see trained black bears or polar bears, only brown bears or Grizzlies get the training?
I would say it's likely due to the greater cross-over of habitat between black bears and humans.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Canus Chinookus
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:30 pm

Post by Canus Chinookus »

aren't browns and grizzlies the same beast?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service”