Airplane stuck in the states
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Airplane stuck in the states
This might be a silly question, but I'm wondering if anyone else has their personal airplane stuck in the states during this Covid ordeal. There's no ways around traveling to get it back? I've just been paying hanger fees to keep it stored until the borders open up. Sucks, would of been a good summer to fly since we can't take vacation.
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
You can fly across the border with an airline ticket. The border is not closed.
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
if you fly across airline style , canada will welcome you back, mind you for a 14 day quarantine. I think you best spend minimum time down there. just sayin
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
If you don’t want to quarantine for two weeks when you come back find a furloughed commercial pilot you trust, and send them down there to grab it. Commercial pilots, truckers, and marine crew are exempt from the quarantine rules.
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Um... I'm pretty sure that the quarantine exemption applies only to crew actually flying for an airline; it's not a generic privilege of being a commercial pilot, or of flying an airplane. If it were, you could go and get your aircraft yourself, and claim a quarantine exemption because you yourself are "crew".Commercial pilots, truckers, and marine crew are exempt from the quarantine rules.
Last edited by photofly on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Airline down, fly it home, 14 days quarantine is your best bet. I recently crossed the border both ways in a private aircraft and it was a non event.
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Um... I'm pretty sure that the quarantine exemption applies only to crew actually flying for an airline;
[/quote]
I wasn’t sure, which is why I called and checked before I completed this exact task for a client. I was providing a service, contracted by the aircraft owner. Therefore flight crew, and subject to the exemption

Re: Airplane stuck in the states
I don't know about the actual rules, but I can tell you that in reality you don't need to be working for an airline. Multiple private operators are crossing the border every day, with pilots that don't quarantaine. Aren't even allowed to quarantaine by some of their employers - if they even still have a job.photofly wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:57 pmUm... I'm pretty sure that the quarantine exemption applies only to crew actually flying for an airline; it's not a generic privilege of being a commercial pilot, or of flying an airplane. If it were, you could go and get your aircraft yourself, and claim a quarantine exemption because you yourself are "crew".Commercial pilots, truckers, and marine crew are exempt from the quarantine rules.
So if the pilot of your private jet doesn't have to quarantaine, it stands to reason that you don't have to quarantaine either if you happen to fly your plane yourself. Especially if the goal of the trip was to recover said airplane, a kind of trip that is being made by a lot of air crew, be it airline or not.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
I might have a solution. I sent you a PM.molsonb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:07 pm This might be a silly question, but I'm wondering if anyone else has their personal airplane stuck in the states during this Covid ordeal. There's no ways around traveling to get it back? I've just been paying hanger fees to keep it stored until the borders open up. Sucks, would of been a good summer to fly since we can't take vacation.
-Dronepiper
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Pay someone to fly it back. They won't be legally required to quarantine, but you might have to.
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
It's not an issue to go specifically to the US to retrieve a plane whether you're a commercial pilot or not. There's also no rule to isolate after the flight as you're considered crew. Now if you decide to bring 5 of your buddies and make a weekend out of it, it's a different story.
Personally, I would quarantine for the 14 days if I was not able to socially distance myself while retrieving the plane. Especially if the plane is somewhere in the US that is a hot spot. But all that's more to ensure I'm not bringing anything home to my family and friends.
Personally, I would quarantine for the 14 days if I was not able to socially distance myself while retrieving the plane. Especially if the plane is somewhere in the US that is a hot spot. But all that's more to ensure I'm not bringing anything home to my family and friends.
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
The self quarantine for 14 days is not a problem. Living in the country, it's not much different.
This is crazy, how have I not heard in the news you can fly, but you can't drive. I knew some people who went to Vegas for 'medical reasons' and flew, but I wasn't going to lie to go get my plane. Wow, I still can't believe it, it makes no sense. So no reason to give to fly down?
This is crazy, how have I not heard in the news you can fly, but you can't drive. I knew some people who went to Vegas for 'medical reasons' and flew, but I wasn't going to lie to go get my plane. Wow, I still can't believe it, it makes no sense. So no reason to give to fly down?
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
You usually have to give a reason to US Customs why you are entering the country.molsonb wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:04 am The self quarantine for 14 days is not a problem. Living in the country, it's not much different.
This is crazy, how have I not heard in the news you can fly, but you can't drive. I knew some people who went to Vegas for 'medical reasons' and flew, but I wasn't going to lie to go get my plane. Wow, I still can't believe it, it makes no sense. So no reason to give to fly down?
"Hi officer, I am here to pick up an airplane. I'm leaving as soon as possible"
- "Are you flight crew?"
"Yes"
Or something like that. Might be wise to get the most recent info before actually leaving on your trip, these border things can change quickly, but I doubt you'll have any problems.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
I am looking for a ride across the border myself to pickup a vehicle. If anyone is flying down privately or small charter please let me know.
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
I don't understand why people are confused about how the border works.
It doesn't matter if you fly, drive or boat. The rules are the same.
If you are picking up your personal plane on your personal time, you aren't crew. Sure, you can lie your way around it but that type of trip requires a 14 day self isolation upon return.
However, if you are deemed an essential worker and have to go to your job then the 14 day requirement is waived.
Some guy in Sault st. Marie has poked the hornets nest though recently as he was living in the u. S. but commuting to work in Canada. His company told him he'd have to self isolate for 14 days if he wanted to do it. He took them to court as he is deemed an essential and didn't want to move to Canada for the duration because of his dual custody kids from the u. S. The court agreed on the 14 day rule but said the company needs to protect everyone else still and that he'd be subject to their measures. From the sound of it, that guy is now on a loser shift and required to be in PPE most of the time by himself.
You too can waste your own time and money "fighting the system" if you desire you own solution but beware the consequences.
It doesn't matter if you fly, drive or boat. The rules are the same.
If you are picking up your personal plane on your personal time, you aren't crew. Sure, you can lie your way around it but that type of trip requires a 14 day self isolation upon return.
However, if you are deemed an essential worker and have to go to your job then the 14 day requirement is waived.
Some guy in Sault st. Marie has poked the hornets nest though recently as he was living in the u. S. but commuting to work in Canada. His company told him he'd have to self isolate for 14 days if he wanted to do it. He took them to court as he is deemed an essential and didn't want to move to Canada for the duration because of his dual custody kids from the u. S. The court agreed on the 14 day rule but said the company needs to protect everyone else still and that he'd be subject to their measures. From the sound of it, that guy is now on a loser shift and required to be in PPE most of the time by himself.
You too can waste your own time and money "fighting the system" if you desire you own solution but beware the consequences.
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
molsonb
This isn’t a great place to ask this kind of complicated question. Expect opinion rather than an accurate answer.
Firstly, there is a story.
Secondly, there are the facts.
Your question is pretty barren as far as the facts are concerned.
1. Is the aircraft Canadian registered?
2. Is the aircraft a Commercial or Private airplane?
3. Who flew the aircraft to the States? The owner or yourself?
4. How did you enter the States or have you?
5. Are you a CPL holder?
6. Are you paid by this company or this owner to bring the airplane home?
Answers to these questions might help you get the answer you’re after.
Gino
This isn’t a great place to ask this kind of complicated question. Expect opinion rather than an accurate answer.
Firstly, there is a story.
Secondly, there are the facts.
Your question is pretty barren as far as the facts are concerned.
1. Is the aircraft Canadian registered?
2. Is the aircraft a Commercial or Private airplane?
3. Who flew the aircraft to the States? The owner or yourself?
4. How did you enter the States or have you?
5. Are you a CPL holder?
6. Are you paid by this company or this owner to bring the airplane home?
Answers to these questions might help you get the answer you’re after.
Gino
"I'll tell you what's wrong with society. No one drinks from the skulls of their enemies!"
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
The OP says it's his personal plane that he's paying hangarage for in the u. S.Gino Under wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:52 pm molsonb
This isn’t a great place to ask this kind of complicated question. Expect opinion rather than an accurate answer.
Firstly, there is a story.
Secondly, there are the facts.
Your question is pretty barren as far as the facts are concerned.
1. Is the aircraft Canadian registered?
2. Is the aircraft a Commercial or Private airplane?
3. Who flew the aircraft to the States? The owner or yourself?
4. How did you enter the States or have you?
5. Are you a CPL holder?
6. Are you paid by this company or this owner to bring the airplane home?
Answers to these questions might help you get the answer you’re after.
Gino
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Says who?
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Airplane stuck in the states
The Canadian Customs and Immigration laws say so. That’s who.
Try a google search and see how the federal statute defines “crew”.
We’ll wait.
Gino
Try a google search and see how the federal statute defines “crew”.
We’ll wait.
Gino
"I'll tell you what's wrong with society. No one drinks from the skulls of their enemies!"
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Well, if you have a source, I'd be happy to read it.Gino Under wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:31 pm The Canadian Customs and Immigration laws say so. That’s who.
Try a google search and see how the federal statute defines “crew”.
We’ll wait.
Gino
Your google searches define it as a person who operates an airplane. Nothing is mentioned about the need to be paid or hired to fly.
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... light+crew
On this US link, some references are found to contractors, but not in all of them.
https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/f ... rew-member
If we look at the transport canada definition, we find:
with crew member defined as:flight crew member means a crew member assigned to act as pilot or flight engineer of an aircraft during flight time;
crew member means a person who is assigned to duty in an aircraft during flight time, or assigned to duty related to the operation of a remotely piloted aircraft system during flight time; (membre d’équipage)
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Entry to the US by air is restricted: here’s the relevant exemption:
On the return, the quarantine exemptions for returning to Canada are here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... l#exempted
Can’t be bothered to look up the US Immigration and Nationality Act, but flying your own plane doesn’t get you a non-immigrant crew visa, so I’m fairly sure this exemption for entry doesn’t apply.Any foreign national travelling as a nonimmigrant under section 101(a)(15)(C) or (D) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(C) or (D), as a crewmember or any alien otherwise travelling to the United States as air or sea crew;
On the return, the quarantine exemptions for returning to Canada are here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... l#exempted
If it’s your own plane, you’re clearly not in the transportation sector, you’re not crossing the border performing your duties, and you’re not exempt.Persons in the trade or transportation sector who are important for the movement of goods or people, including truck drivers and crew members on any aircraft, shipping vessel or train, and that cross the border while performing their duties or for the purpose of performing their duties;
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Thank you for the reference!
The way it is written it specifies that crew members of any aircraft are included in the transportation sector. I don't see anything that says that crew members need to be empoyed.
Would you say a private pilot is a crew member on his airplane? I would say yes.
I agree that a private pilot flying for fun would by most definitions not be included in the transportation sector, but your quote specifically includes them.
The OP was also going down to the states to pick up an airplane, not for a regular day trip. He is thus moving goods, albeit his own goods and for free.
The way it is written it specifies that crew members of any aircraft are included in the transportation sector. I don't see anything that says that crew members need to be empoyed.
Would you say a private pilot is a crew member on his airplane? I would say yes.
I agree that a private pilot flying for fun would by most definitions not be included in the transportation sector, but your quote specifically includes them.
The OP was also going down to the states to pick up an airplane, not for a regular day trip. He is thus moving goods, albeit his own goods and for free.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
When I shave my beard, I’m not part of the personal care sector.
When I cook dinner, I’m not part of the food service sector.
If you’re flying your own plane, you’re not in the transportation sector.
When I cook dinner, I’m not part of the food service sector.
If you’re flying your own plane, you’re not in the transportation sector.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
If I make a rule that applies to permits required for "people active in the food service sector, including amateur BBQ cooks serving family in their back yard", then that would apply to you, even though you are not in the food service sector.
If a private pilot is considered a flight crew member, then he would be part of "Persons in the trade or transportation sector who are important for the movement of goods or people, including truck drivers and crew members on any aircraft"
They even mention it can be on any aircraft.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Airplane stuck in the states
Legislation does not exist in a vacuum, and should be interpreted in a purposive way. What is the purpose of this exemption? It is to allow airlines and the transport industry, considered to be so vital to the functioning of the nation that strict and universal quarantine rules should be exempted, to function in way that it could no longer do if those people operating that industry had to quarantine on entering Canada. The transport industry is without any doubt not affected by private aircraft owners having to quarantine. There seems to me to be little doubt that if a forum where professional expertise in interpreting laws is exercised ever had to examine this issue, it would decide exemption does not apply.
There is no more overriding reason to exempt someone from quarantine on fetching their private aircraft from a foreign country than there is to exempt them from fetching their private car, or their pet ocelot.
If you honestly think that fetching a private aircraft is deserving of quarantine exemption, you are not treating the quarantine rules with the seriousness the government does.
There is no more overriding reason to exempt someone from quarantine on fetching their private aircraft from a foreign country than there is to exempt them from fetching their private car, or their pet ocelot.
If you honestly think that fetching a private aircraft is deserving of quarantine exemption, you are not treating the quarantine rules with the seriousness the government does.
Last edited by photofly on Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.