WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

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montado
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WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by montado »

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-can ... -1.1575647

https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 66402?s=21

Some airlines will come out ahead while other will sink. You can thank our government and the idiots who support how they have handled the pandemic.
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McKinley
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Re: WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by McKinley »

Incredible isn’t it? Well, actually, maybe not.

He’s hasn’t quite connected the dots that he/ Canadians need jobs ( like aviation) to pay off the debt. When I think of the lost wages that will occur over the next 1-5 years .. it’s fairly jaw dropping. ( for me at least)

So, if a pilot making 60,000 gets a job at FedEx as a delivery truck driver ( I know of several) for 1/4 or less of that wage whats the ripple effect of that? I think decently large... whats the mental health impact? Physical health? Debt that that person will take on? Inability to retrain? ( I know trudope wants a “ great reset” - people are better equipped to do that from a position of fiscal strength.

It’s not easy to replace these career wages .. tyw ripple effects will be significant.
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newlygrounded
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Re: WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by newlygrounded »

I saw this on the news today and felt pretty sad. Back in 2019 we had projected numbers for 2020, I wonder when numbers will get to those predictions?
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confusedalot
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Re: WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by confusedalot »

yep, very sad indeed.

it all comes down to the ottawa gurus for us, they say this is how it is going to be. kill the virus and kill everyone else in the process.

my buddy at american airlines was paid most of his salary throughout this stuff, did not do anything for 10 months, and had to downgrade from left seat 767 to left seat a320. That's how bad it got. Meaning, not that bad.

Planes are full down there, planes are empty up here.

Looks like the american attitude has outsmarted the more british than the british attitude once again.............

but canada is a world leader in everything. right?
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Zaibatsu
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Re: WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by Zaibatsu »

I think you give the government too much credit.

The Westjet that thrived after 9-11 was comparable to Southwest. Today the only thing in common are four letters in their name.

Southwest is 5-10 times as large as WJ depending on how you measure if.

Imagine if you will that Southwest decided to make a wholly owned subsidiary called LUV Connection and bought 240 Q400s to muscle in to the 1900 routes that Great Lakes and others used to serve.

Then they bought 40 geriatric 767s to try and be Delta, but without Deltas experience of running old equipment.

Then to try and save on costs, running another airline with identical equipment but cheaper pilots. Woops.

Then pissed off its pilots so they dumped SWAPA and became ALPA after labour disputes.

Then buying 50 Dreamliners and trying to muscle in next to American and United on some intercontinental routes.

Then having an equity firm buy it up just before it experiencing the worst economic crisis the entire worlds airline industry has experienced.

You think they’d be buying 100 MAX aircraft then? Really?

But it’s Trudeaus fault.
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Heliian
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Re: WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by Heliian »

McKinley wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:31 pm Incredible isn’t it? Well, actually, maybe not.

He’s hasn’t quite connected the dots that he/ Canadians need jobs ( like aviation) to pay off the debt. When I think of the lost wages that will occur over the next 1-5 years .. it’s fairly jaw dropping. ( for me at least)

So, if a pilot making 60,000 gets a job at FedEx as a delivery truck driver ( I know of several) for 1/4 or less of that wage whats the ripple effect of that? I think decently large... whats the mental health impact? Physical health? Debt that that person will take on? Inability to retrain? ( I know trudope wants a “ great reset” - people are better equipped to do that from a position of fiscal strength.

It’s not easy to replace these career wages .. tyw ripple effects will be significant.
Well, you're the problem.

That fedex job probably pays almost as well as your pilot job and has better benefits.

Why do people think that their pilot job is better or more important than any other job. There are tons of jobs across the country needing to be filled but instead of actually "lowering" yourself you'd rather bitch online about how it's everyone else's fault.

Blaming the government would be fine if the people asking for government aid right now weren't the ones who have and will be bitching about other people getting aid and calling them socialists or communists for it.

Also, there is still very few places opened up, there's nowhere to go, having the jets flying around in circles won't help.
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turbo-prop
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Re: WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by turbo-prop »

You don't think Trudeau is a problem??? Asks/tells our airlines to stop flying to hot destinations to try and prevent covid spread?? Yet You can jump AC or Westjet, fly to the US connect onto a US carrier and continue on to that same hot destination. The only thing he did was push our airline industry further into the red and make it harder for them to come back out. More layoffs than what is needed. Sure you can say the airlines weren't prepared for this, but who was??? Who saw this coming???? No one!!!
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Re: WestJet cancels orders for 15 Boeing 737 Max planes as industry struggles, southwest about to order 100 plus.

Post by Gear Jerker »

Hey guys,

I'll just jump in and say this:

I agree with the overall sentiment that the federal government has not only failed to support the aviation sector, but in a way which is distinct from the rest of the G7. No capital assistance to a distressed sector which is an important component of the national infrastructure and a significant economic driver. A patchwork series of restrictions which are in some cases, either unnecessary, or decoupled from the latest science/data. They have failed us.

However, lets draw a line in one regard.

Over 545000 Americans are dead.

Has America done a better job at supporting aviation? Yes, clearly!

Has America done a better job of managing the pandemic? Well, a pandemic is a public health crisis which has a ripple effect on the economy and day to day life, but at its core it is a public health crisis. Well, 3x as many people per capita have died. So, no.

As far as the thread title:

Sucks to cancel orders, just like it sucks to do sale-leasebacks, and fly around half full old 600's and Q400's. But, if we look at this from the perspective of trying to analyze a business and its growth potential; well, has the 5, 10, or 15 year time horizon picture on this business changed?

Well, they've made a lot of brutal decisions in the past year to minimize cash burn and cost of sales, and sourced liquidity.

Looking ahead, from the analysts reports I've read recovery for the North American leisure market is expected to occur within 3 years. International business, and specifically North America to Asia international business, is expected to be 2025 or beyond to achieve pre pandemic levels. Of course, this is pure speculation and we will only know looking back if this is close to true.

Assuming that it is, how is WestJet positioned?

Well, they're still taking delivery of 27 737MAX, and 10 787-9's. They still have a strategy to capture market share in business travel, although of course the timeline and execution looks different now. This strategy will still at some point likely include a joint venture agreement with a major US airline.

So, while this is an incredibly dark and difficult time, as long as WestJet (and others) make it through the next number of months until restrictions gradually ease and revenue starts to scale back up, this may just be another massive pothole as opposed to going off the road altogether.
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