Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Dronepiper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:22 pm

Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by Dronepiper »

Has anyone ever used a cellphone booster in their airplane?

Lets forget about the legal ramifications or STC requirements. I just want to know if a cell phone booster would allow me to work at FL180 - FL200. Thanks!
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6767
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by digits_ »

I don't think such a thing exists. Sat phone seems to be the standard for people that want to make phone calls from an airplane. Alternatively you could try VOIP calls with some kind of wifi solution.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Dronepiper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:22 pm

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by Dronepiper »

I mean they make cell phone boosters for cars, I don't see why it wouldn't work for an airplane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6767
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by digits_ »

Dronepiper wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:48 pm I mean they make cell phone boosters for cars, I don't see why it wouldn't work for an airplane.
There are wifi providers that work based off cell towers.

For cellphone boosters in airplanes, I've been told the problem is the speed, and that the antennas on the towers are usually directed a bit more downward to service cars and houses, not objects in the sky. Data signals (probably 4G or LTE or something like that) generally require less bandwith.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by photofly »

Cellphones work by reusing a limited number of frequencies in non-adjacent cells. At altitude, a transciever will receive and transmit to/from several widely spaced cell towers on the same frequency, appearing to be in several cells at once, and therefore shut itself down.

That’s why cellphones work low down but not high up; it’s not a signal strength or speed problem, the problem is the range is too high. A booster will make things worse, not better.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by photofly on Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6767
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:07 pm Cellphones work by reusing a limited range of frequencies in non-adjacent cells. At altitude, a transmitter will receive from several widely spaced cell towers on the same frequency, appearing to be in several cells at once, and therefore shut itself down.

That’s why cellphones work low down but not high up; it’s not a signal strength or speed problem. A booster will make things worse, not better.
Makes sense, thanks for the explanation!
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by photofly »

At FL180 you’re still only 3-4 miles direct line of sight to the tower, in most areas. Cellphones automatically adjust their power to transmit a lot further than that in rural areas.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
User avatar
“Bob”
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:40 pm

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by “Bob” »

photofly wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:07 pm Cellphones work by reusing a limited number of frequencies in non-adjacent cells. At altitude, a transciever will receive and transmit to/from several widely spaced cell towers on the same frequency, appearing to be in several cells at once, and therefore shut itself down.

That’s why cellphones work low down but not high up; it’s not a signal strength or speed problem, the problem is the range is too high. A booster will make things worse, not better.
So wouldn’t the exact same thing happen if you are right at the equidistant point between towers on the ground?
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6767
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by digits_ »

“Bob” wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:37 pm
photofly wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:07 pm Cellphones work by reusing a limited number of frequencies in non-adjacent cells. At altitude, a transciever will receive and transmit to/from several widely spaced cell towers on the same frequency, appearing to be in several cells at once, and therefore shut itself down.

That’s why cellphones work low down but not high up; it’s not a signal strength or speed problem, the problem is the range is too high. A booster will make things worse, not better.
So wouldn’t the exact same thing happen if you are right at the equidistant point between towers on the ground?
Towers that border or have reception overlap, function on different frequencies. The problem photofly describes happens if those towers with the same frequency overlap.

It's a honeycomb pattern(-ish). Towers operating on the same frequency are spaced apart.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
User avatar
valleyboy
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 4:05 am
Contact:

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by valleyboy »

Laws would need to be changed, ya I know you stated "laws aside" but the basic governing law is that the handsets are not licensed for air to ground. Mobile phone manufactures won't support anything outside the licenses issued.

Back in the day before digital and all cell phones were analog (it was fun eavesdropping on phone calls with a scanner -pretty funny stuff) Back then if you took a phone airborne you actually could make long distance for calls for free. Seems analogue systems could not handle the information of a phone hitting multiple towers all at once and just ignored the call.

Today the NG phones and towers are all digital so they limit via handset and antenna and they ain't going to condone air to ground. Can you imagine the mayhem and shit show if passengers could use their personal cell phones during flight in a A380 - damn we are so pathologically attached to our phones. Sitting in a room watching a group of people txting back and forth when sitting 2 feet apart. Have we lost the ability to communicate verbally.

Buy a sat phone for your aircraft -- pretty simple -- or if you are on a budget get a garmin in-reach and txt away. I carry one in my truck and in the boat required equipment because we don't have good cellular coverage.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black air has no lift - extra fuel has no weight
http://www.blackair.ca
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by photofly »

Cellphone use in an airplane is legal in Canada, and it works well, at low altitude.
imagine the mayhem and shit show if passengers could use their personal cell phones during flight in a A380 -
A bunch of companies offer inflight cellphone service by putting a cell on the aircraft, with satellite backhaul. Here's one:
https://www.aeromobile.net/how-it-works/
Lots of airlines let you make cellphone calls at altitude. This was how things stood in 2013, I have no idea what's happened since:
https://thepointsguy.com/2013/12/in-fli ... the-phone/

You could also use Inmarsat's BGAN network - there's at least once self-pointing terminal that you could try in a light plane, through the front window. Data rates are very expensive though.

The BGAN system is interesting: it's basically a cellular network with all the cell antennas on one satellite, all with very narrow beams pointing at different bits of the earth. As you pass from one beam into another the cell handoff is done in the satellite.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Dronepiper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:22 pm

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by Dronepiper »

photofly wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:06 am Cellphone use in an airplane is legal in Canada, and it works well, at low altitude.

You could also use Inmarsat's BGAN network - there's at least once self-pointing terminal that you could try in a light plane, through the front window. Data rates are very expensive though.

The BGAN system is interesting: it's basically a cellular network with all the cell antennas on one satellite, all with very narrow beams pointing at different bits of the earth. As you pass from one beam into another the cell handoff is done in the satellite.
What self pointing terminal are you talking about?
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by photofly »

This is one:
https://satellitephonestore.com/catalog ... ernet-unit


Or you could fit this one to the outside of the aircraft:
https://satellitephonestore.com/catalog ... t-class-11
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
newlygrounded
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:28 pm

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by newlygrounded »

digits_ wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:56 pm
Dronepiper wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:48 pm I mean they make cell phone boosters for cars, I don't see why it wouldn't work for an airplane.
There are wifi providers that work based off cell towers.

For cellphone boosters in airplanes, I've been told the problem is the speed, and that the antennas on the towers are usually directed a bit more downward to service cars and houses, not objects in the sky. Data signals (probably 4G or LTE or something like that) generally require less bandwith.
I'm a terrible person, so I'll admit I was able to get phone service working on a q400 when I sat under the wing (maybe it helped reflect the signals?)
---------- ADS -----------
 
newlygrounded
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:28 pm

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by newlygrounded »

valleyboy wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:02 am Laws would need to be changed, ya I know you stated "laws aside" but the basic governing law is that the handsets are not licensed for air to ground. Mobile phone manufactures won't support anything outside the licenses issued.

Back in the day before digital and all cell phones were analog (it was fun eavesdropping on phone calls with a scanner -pretty funny stuff) Back then if you took a phone airborne you actually could make long distance for calls for free. Seems analogue systems could not handle the information of a phone hitting multiple towers all at once and just ignored the call.

Today the NG phones and towers are all digital so they limit via handset and antenna and they ain't going to condone air to ground. Can you imagine the mayhem and shit show if passengers could use their personal cell phones during flight in a A380 - damn we are so pathologically attached to our phones. Sitting in a room watching a group of people txting back and forth when sitting 2 feet apart. Have we lost the ability to communicate verbally.

Buy a sat phone for your aircraft -- pretty simple -- or if you are on a budget get a garmin in-reach and txt away. I carry one in my truck and in the boat required equipment because we don't have good cellular coverage.
I had phone service in a Q400 from boston to ytz
---------- ADS -----------
 
albertdesalvo
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:38 pm

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by albertdesalvo »

newlygrounded wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:35 pmI'm a terrible person
Colonel! Is that you?
---------- ADS -----------
 
MUSKEG
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 872
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:49 am

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by MUSKEG »

I was under the impression cell towers waves were more horizontal than vertical.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Cell Phone Booster for Airplane

Post by photofly »

MUSKEG wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:04 am I was under the impression cell towers waves were more horizontal than vertical.
They are more horizontal than vertical but that doesn't mean that you can't receive a signal off-axis. Cellphones have a protocol to increase their transmit power when distant from a tower, and even at 6 miles high, your angle to distant cell sites is quite small - the maximum range for GSM is 22 statute miles (set by the maximum timing advance, not by signal strength) and up to 80 miles with some tweaks for remote base stations.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”