Why did you switch from WJ mainline to AC?

[Elton87]

Can anyone who went down this path share their thoughts? I heard it doesn't really go the other way either.

[Canadaflyer46]

15-20 years ago there were several people that went AC to WJ. Certainly not the amount we see doing the reverse currently though. AC sounded a pretty toxic atmosphere back then and WJ seemed a happy place to be.
If you’re on the fence I’d go through the process at AC, if they offer you the job I believe you can defer groundschools. This late in the game I’d be tempted to wait and see what kind of CA we get after the strike/lockouts come.
Having said that, I don’t see the upgrade timeline reducing at WJ. But if the FO pay is increased substantially maybe that would sway your decision to stay. Each to their own.
If you live in YYZ/YVR I’d say the decision to go to AC is a no brainer. No matter what kinda agreement WJ get, the next AC one will beat it.

[IKEA_Monkey]

No matter what kinda agreement WJ get, the next AC one will beat it.

Never underestimate the stupidity of Air Canada pilots or their capacity to whore themselves out at the expense of everyone else!

[flying4dollars]

No matter what kinda agreement WJ get, the next AC one will beat it.

Never underestimate the stupidity of Air Canada pilots or their capacity to whore themselves out at the expense of everyone else!

I think the AC pilot's response to the latest MOA shows a very clear and needed change in mentality. I just hope it continues.

[sportingrifle]

I would imagine there are many reasons AC has a vast number of Teal coloured resumes on file. When you consider lifetime career earnings there is simply no comparison. It is an “apples to oranges” comparison with a lot of future unknowns including future growth at both airlines, but it roughly looks like this. For the first 6 years, a new hire at WJ will out earn their AC counterparts. It will take another 4 to 6 years for their career earnings to catch up. After that, there is no comparison. There is little to no chance of a new hire at WJ ever becoming a WB captain - if they still have wide bodies at all in their long term future. The only reason from a financial picture that somebody would choose WJ over AC is if they were over more than 50 years old at joining. If AC gets rid of the deplorable 4 year new hire flat pay (I am pretty certain that they will within the next year.) then baring a massive pay uplift at WJ, the numbers will turn even more in favour of AC.

One thing to be aware of is that hiring, and consequently retirements, happen in waves. AC is on the backside of a retirement wave that won’t start up again until about 2029. So baring large and unforeseen (by me) growth, anyone hired after 2023 could spend many years on reserve at a base they don’t really want to be at. But unless your desired base is YYC, still at this time a brighter future than currently at WJ.

Having said that, my best wishes to my WJ brothers and sisters in their efforts with their current negotiations to raise the bar. They more than deserve it.

[‘Bob’]

The original post seems more than a little smug.

Why not ask the people who left Westjet and exited aviation all together in spite of the door basically being wide open at AC?

You’re standing on a pile of dog shit just like anyone who partakes in Canadian aviation.

Your’s is just a little sweeter.. and only after you become nose blind to it, that’s all.

[flying4dollars]

The original post seems more than a little smug.

Why not ask the people who left Westjet and exited aviation all together in spite of the door basically being wide open at AC?

You’re standing on a pile of dog shit just like anyone who partakes in Canadian aviation.

Your’s is just a little sweeter.. and only after you become nose blind to it, that’s all.

I don't think it was smug at all. He/she was simply curious as to why one would be making the switch and he/she would be right in the sense that pilots at AC right now aren't leaving to WJ. At least, not nearly at the same rate.

As for your suggestion to ask why pilots that left WestJet and aviation all together, well I think it's probably obvious that it's likely they'd just had enough and found more lucrative or gratifying ways of making a living than one as an aviator in Canada. Also, it's quite possible the poster doesn't care about that question as much as the one he/she asked

[Apestogetherstrong]

https://youtu.be/S0YWYu3hZIk


WJ alpa team trolled their management lmao!

[scabbydoo]

My letter of resignation from a few years ago somes it up for me:

Mr. Jimmy-Dean Porter,
Boeing 737 Chief Pilot
WestJet Flight Operations
22 Aerial Pl. NE Calgary, AB
T2E 3J1

xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Jimmy-Dean,

It is with mixed emotions that I regrettably submit this letter of resignation to you, effective xxxxxxxxxx. Over the past six years, being a WestJetter has meant more than just being employee number xxxxx. It has been an identity, a source of pride, and above all, being part of a family that once felt like its core value was taking care of its people. This airline has provided me with countless memories and experiences connecting with colleagues and guests, and the incredible amount of help and support I’ve received from other WestJetters throughout this journey. It has allowed me to experience the world by providing me with the opportunity to travel to 48 countries within the past six years that would not have other-wise not been possible. For all of this, I am extremely grateful.

In August 2018, I was provided with what I thought would have been an opportunity for career progression within the WestJet group as a captain at Swoop. Understanding we were all taking a potential risk, not one of us could have predicted that the company would have advocated so aggressively to our detriment. The Swoop experience was very eye-opening in exposing the underbelly of what this company has become and what it is capable of. This starts with an attempt to outsource our flying to outside hires.

My tenure at Swoop was fraught with new issues almost daily, such as suffering financial penalties for making a safety related decisions (show no-go policy), having to fight from being further penalized by being frozen as a first officer for two years upon bidding back to mainline, dealing with a management team that is unsupportive and adversarial while openly lambasting WestJet pilots, and much more. All of this has culminated into where we are today: an airline that has the lowest 737 direct-entry captain requirements in the world, sub-standard training and checking (through CAE and off-the-street trainers), and poorly-trained captains flying with green first officers. These holes in the proverbial swiss cheese are a classic picture of what profits-before-safety looks like. Further to this, upon returning to mainline, we are being again penalized financially by holding reserve in our old positions, despite the Kaplan ruling stating otherwise.

I did not arrive at this decision lightly. There was a great deal of sleepless nights that went into it. I look back fondly at my time here at this airline. However, with thirty tails moving over to Swoop, and ever-increasing routes being cannibalized, the numbers speak for themselves as to where career progression lies.

I ask that the company truly reflect on what has happened in recent years, especially with 60 resignations from mainline alone in 2019, and the need for 200 new-hires in 2020. I wish nothing but success for this airline that I have so proudly been a part of, and hope one day it will be able to reconcile the damage done within these past few years.

Sincerely,

xxxxx

[cloak]

Wow, so much emotions! It's good that you left WestJet. It's better for your own health, and likely those around you. I don't mean that as a snide, rather life is too short to spend unhappy. It's just ironic that you get to be the off-the-street guy as you say! Believe it or not, at some point EVERYONE is an "outsider"!! A touch of humility is great. Enjoy your time at Air Canada, hopefully.

[Daniel Cooper]

I wanted to fly a jet and they were the only ones hiring. Came from Encore btw.

[Protonpilot]

The ALPA video is a response to a pilot recruitment video put out by Westjet a few months ago. It featured four pilots, probably hand picked by management.

One of them is already at Air Canada.

[Pilot9049]

I was at WJ for 4 years and was still at the bottom of the seniority list in YYC mainly because encore pilots will leap frog you on the seniority list when they flow. No hard feelings towards WEN pilots. It's just not ideal from a career progression stand point.
WJ has no pension, AC does
Upgrade time at AC takes half as long. Maybe even quicker.
Over a 25+ year career you're literally leaving millions on the table if you stay at WJ.
Also, the ongoing feud between ALPA and the company just got old. Bad for moral and as a pilot you can only let your company kick you between the legs so many times before you've had enough.