Here we go
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
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Here we go
First few shots fired over our respective bows. Hands are being played.
We turf the 10 year deal legally at our option (because it sucked badly and was train wreck) and the Corp cancels all pilot B1 travel passes. Nice tit for tat. They were a bit of a turd though, as boarding priority was abused by vindictive gate agents constantly. Either way, I'm hoping our leadership at ALPA has a firm "within the contract" response.
Anyways, know that it's ON. Don't ever forget you're a COST UNIT, nothing more. The objective is to oppress your desire to better yourselves and your family, and stripping B1's unnecessarily proved that point. This is going to get serious before -any- legitimate gains are seen. Know your contract and obligations. Follow Charlene's lead TO THE LETTER. Unity is the ONLY WAY forward.
United we stand, divided we fall. Every person out there knows the truth and clarity of this famous statement.
FWIW, I'm sure the FA's are celebrating the demise of our B1's. However, they should be careful celebrating as their C1's are next.
We turf the 10 year deal legally at our option (because it sucked badly and was train wreck) and the Corp cancels all pilot B1 travel passes. Nice tit for tat. They were a bit of a turd though, as boarding priority was abused by vindictive gate agents constantly. Either way, I'm hoping our leadership at ALPA has a firm "within the contract" response.
Anyways, know that it's ON. Don't ever forget you're a COST UNIT, nothing more. The objective is to oppress your desire to better yourselves and your family, and stripping B1's unnecessarily proved that point. This is going to get serious before -any- legitimate gains are seen. Know your contract and obligations. Follow Charlene's lead TO THE LETTER. Unity is the ONLY WAY forward.
United we stand, divided we fall. Every person out there knows the truth and clarity of this famous statement.
FWIW, I'm sure the FA's are celebrating the demise of our B1's. However, they should be careful celebrating as their C1's are next.
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Re: Here we go
1:15 in the crew room sharp. Start with a Phone call to dispatch for updates. Every NOTAM gets checked. Draft & drop only. No calls to STOC, let them figure it out while we’re running engines and APUs. We can have fun with this.
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Re: Here we go
I like that.TheAlcalde wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 7:58 am 1:15 in the crew room sharp. Start with a Phone call to dispatch for updates. Every NOTAM gets checked. Draft & drop only. No calls to STOC, let them figure it out while we’re running engines and APUs. We can have fun with this.
Re: Here we go
I will add: Pilots only in the jumpseat. FAs can figure out their own commute.
Re: Here we go
What benefit would that be to the pilots? Don't pilots already get first bid for the JS?
Re: Here we go
Yes, however on my flights the jumpseat is available for pilots Only. The FAs fought hard against the B1s.
Re: Here we go
I think it’s more of a line in the sand. Either you are with us or against us.
The issue of B1s between pilots and flight attendants has been contentious at the best. A great diversion devised by the company. They focus on something minor, while the company is buying caseloads of KY.
A lot of F/As don’t know that while the cabin jumpseats can be occupied by qualified non-revs, the final say rests with the Captain.
Re: Here we go
Getting an FA to work in the flight deck helps a coworker, but it helps the company too, I'm all out of motivation to help this operation unless I'm helping one of our own.
On a deeper level though...
FAs acquired C1 passes for themselves including extra bankable C1 passes for working on holidays. Their C2 passes are service charge exempted. They have a commuting policy too. Whatever, good for them. Not my contract.
But the FAs bitched and moaned the loudest about the pilot B1s, routinely brought up the unfairness of it during pairings, used language and tactics that would be considered harassment including on official company channels and officially grieved our B1 passes. Hypocrites.
I get along great with my crews, and it's not against them as individuals, but associations and unions are made up of individuals, and individuals need to take responsibility for that behaviour - it was ultimately driven by them.
- Ash Ketchum
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Re: Here we go
As a father of young kids who never travels I never even used the B1s so couldn't care less that they are gone. I was surprised there was such a heated debate over them - it's not like they are guaranteed seats.
Re: Here we go
Well, May 30 is turning out to be an interesting date.
2 shots fired by AC over the bow of ALPA represented pilots. Both seemingly related to (early) collective bargaining.
Hope it is coincidence and not intended to set the tone of future discussions.
2 shots fired by AC over the bow of ALPA represented pilots. Both seemingly related to (early) collective bargaining.
Hope it is coincidence and not intended to set the tone of future discussions.
Re: Here we go
It is 100% intended to set the tone. Air Canada is still playing the game as if it was 20 years ago.
Re: Here we go
Luckily, we don’t have the same union we had 20 years ago. Nor, the same mind-set of pilots like 20 years ago.
I think Air Canada shit the bed on this one. If they had said, “in the spirit of co-operation, we’re keeping the B1s and moving forward”, this summer might have been easier to staff. As it stands, the first reaction is, “you know, this summer, I’m just going to fly the contract, nothing more”.
Re: Here we go
As one who regularly sees loads above 100% I also couldn’t care less that they’re gone. A B1 would just put me higher on the list of people left behind. Who cares?Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:36 am As a father of young kids who never travels I never even used the B1s so couldn't care less that they are gone. I was surprised there was such a heated debate over them - it's not like they are guaranteed seats.
B1s cost the company nothing (okay, that extra 80 kilos has an effect on fuel burn, I guess) so taking them away is just a dramatic statement.
Re: Here we go
Not to mention, your 80 Kgs affect on fuel burn is the same, B1, C1, C2, etc.
Yesterday an F/A said, (smugly) I hear you’re about to lose your B1s. Now, we’re all equal again. I just laughed and said, “Honey, I make over $300K/yr, you think I fly (sniff) stand-by. I don’t think so”.
I walked away, but the F/O said her face was priceless.
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Re: Here we go
I like to be equal when it benefits me. Doctors, athletes etc… yes please! Why should an NBA player make more than WNBA player? EQUALITY!!! If you disagree you are misogynistic sexist racimophbinbat.
Now don’t even ask me why 50 percent of brick layers and taxi drivers are not women.
And it’s also important to attack the people around you the most. I will fight to the death with a pilot over passes and completely ignore the CEO’s salary. This gives me the most satisfaction. Equality is most important, not quality. I don’t care if I have to eat white rice and ketchup for dinner every night as long as everyone else is equal and in the same boat. Socialism! Next best thing to rice and ketchup!
Re: Here we go
Right, so literally no cost to the company. It was a gesture meant solely to hurt someone.
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I'm sorry, but that's a terrible attitude to have. I have no idea about B1's, C1's, etc., but you're about to go into battle for a better CA. You don't need to open another front.
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He may have a point, Bede. The FAs have a commute policy so denying JS potentially gets them a totally kosher day off while also kicking the company. Still feels dirty though.
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I'm all for putting people in their place but the way that was typed made me die on the inside of cringe. Go get'em boomer?Crewbunk wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 12:01 pmNot to mention, your 80 Kgs affect on fuel burn is the same, B1, C1, C2, etc.
Yesterday an F/A said, (smugly) I hear you’re about to lose your B1s. Now, we’re all equal again. I just laughed and said, “Honey, I make over $300K/yr, you think I fly (sniff) stand-by. I don’t think so”.
I walked away, but the F/O said her face was priceless.
Pilots crying over losing B1's on online forms or chat groups (New hires in GS even) is the companies wet dream. Don't give it to them and follow the contract.. Seems pretty simple.
Re: Here we go
I'm shocked to see the level antagonism here between cabin and flight crew. Has this been going on for a while at AC?
From my humble outsider's perspective, it could be detrimental towards a gain for everyone as a whole, but, I'm not at AC, so take it for whatever it's worth.
Go hard friends, stand strong, stand united, and don't let them @#$! you for another decade again!
From my humble outsider's perspective, it could be detrimental towards a gain for everyone as a whole, but, I'm not at AC, so take it for whatever it's worth.
Go hard friends, stand strong, stand united, and don't let them @#$! you for another decade again!
- flying4dollars
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Re: Here we go
I can tell you from many internal and private group chats that nobody is crying over the loss of B1's. If it means a significant pay raise and improvement in language and QOL, then losing the B1's will be a VERY small and insignificant price to pay.Mac08 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:01 pmI'm all for putting people in their place but the way that was typed made me die on the inside of cringe. Go get'em boomer?Crewbunk wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 12:01 pmNot to mention, your 80 Kgs affect on fuel burn is the same, B1, C1, C2, etc.
Yesterday an F/A said, (smugly) I hear you’re about to lose your B1s. Now, we’re all equal again. I just laughed and said, “Honey, I make over $300K/yr, you think I fly (sniff) stand-by. I don’t think so”.
I walked away, but the F/O said her face was priceless.
Pilots crying over losing B1's on online forms or chat groups (New hires in GS even) is the companies wet dream. Don't give it to them and follow the contract.. Seems pretty simple.
Re: Here we go
Crewbunk wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 12:01 pmNot to mention, your 80 Kgs affect on fuel burn is the same, B1, C1, C2, etc.
Yesterday an F/A said, (smugly) I hear you’re about to lose your B1s. Now, we’re all equal again. I just laughed and said, “Honey, I make over $300K/yr, you think I fly (sniff) stand-by. I don’t think so”.

As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Here we go
It’s certainly not all FA’s. The majority are amazing. However there are still those around who seem to feel that company seniority somehow determines the chain of command in the aircraft. Not to mention those who have been caught removing food from pilots meals then telling them that it was missing etc. it’s a small group but nevertheless it leaves a sour taste when you encounter them.DanWEC wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:25 pm I'm shocked to see the level antagonism here between cabin and flight crew. Has this been going on for a while at AC?
From my humble outsider's perspective, it could be detrimental towards a gain for everyone as a whole, but, I'm not at AC, so take it for whatever it's worth.
Go hard friends, stand strong, stand united, and don't let them @#$! you for another decade again!
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Re: Here we go
I'm sorry, but that's a terrible attitude to have. I have no idea about B1's, C1's, etc., but you're about to go into battle for a better CA. You don't need to open another front.
This 1000%
We need wide spread support. This includes our colleagues
We can go confirmed with our new pay rates
No other US pilot group has "B1s"
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Re: Here we go
A lot of it has to do with the "me too clause" that they insisted on having in their contracts years past.DanWEC wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:25 pm I'm shocked to see the level antagonism here between cabin and flight crew. Has this been going on for a while at AC?
From my humble outsider's perspective, it could be detrimental towards a gain for everyone as a whole, but, I'm not at AC, so take it for whatever it's worth.
Go hard friends, stand strong, stand united, and don't let them @#$! you for another decade again!
If the pilots negotiated hard and won something, the FA's just "rode the pilots coat-tails" and got it as well. This compromises our bargaining as any "ask" is doubly expensive", or that's what we hear.
They seem more than happy to see us not get compensated with a C1 over Christmas, or get significantly less for per diems in some cases. They also get better meal options on the aircraft, often having a breakfast boarded where we have none, then selling the extra passenger meals while neglecting the FlightDeck completely, starving or not. I see it constantly. These are facts, and they are what they are I guess.
Ya, no love lost for the most part.