Recession

[Flyerone]

With a recession looming on the horizon, best guess to what may happen to Porter's expansion ?

[cdnavater]

With a recession looming on the horizon, best guess to what may happen to Porter's expansion ?

I’ve wondered the same, specifically since there is no proper union or CBA what stops the group that talks to the company from taking wage concessions?

[Aviationanalysis234]

With a recession looming on the horizon, best guess to what may happen to Porter's expansion ?

I’ve wondered the same, specifically since there is no proper union or CBA what stops the group that talks to the company from taking wage concessions?

What stops wage reductions is the Canada Labour Code. You don't need a Union and dues for that protection.

[cdnavater]

With a recession looming on the horizon, best guess to what may happen to Porter's expansion ?

I’ve wondered the same, specifically since there is no proper union or CBA what stops the group that talks to the company from taking wage concessions?

What stops wage reductions is the Canada Labour Code. You don't need a Union and dues for that protection.

I would argue you do, have you ever voted on your “agreement” from, I believe you it call FOAG. Has anything ever been presented with, you have a vote on this! If the answer is no, the labour code cannot stop your unofficial labour group from forcing a concessionary agreement on you!
They can negotiate a lower wage on your behalf, you do not have a union that would face recall should they be too company friendly and a union would not negotiate reduced wages unless forced by bankruptcy.
Before you go all Jazz, blah blah blah, it was not concessions for the pilots on the property, it was lower starting wages which in theory would get fixed if recruitment was a problem, which it is not, if you exclude that almost none are immediately upgradable.
If Porter finds themselves with no growth and delaying or canceling orders, they will find themselves flush with Captains and realize they need to pay them less and since recruitment is on hold they won’t need those really nice wages to attract pilots.
Ask your FOAG, if the agreement can be negotiated without your consent during hard times, they obviously were able to during good times and we could argue, the Dash op would’ve had bigger raises last time if they had any input before the benchmark exercise.
Speaking of your FOAG, how do they get to be part of that, do you vote or were they appointed by the company or some other method.
Labour code is useless if your negotiators agree to it.

[Fullflaps]

I’ve wondered the same, specifically since there is no proper union or CBA what stops the group that talks to the company from taking wage concessions?

What stops wage reductions is the Canada Labour Code. You don't need a Union and dues for that protection.

I would argue you do, have you ever voted on your “agreement” from, I believe you it call FOAG. Has anything ever been presented with, you have a vote on this! If the answer is no, the labour code cannot stop your unofficial labour group from forcing a concessionary agreement on you!
They can negotiate a lower wage on your behalf, you do not have a union that would face recall should they be too company friendly and a union would not negotiate reduced wages unless forced by bankruptcy.
Before you go all Jazz, blah blah blah, it was not concessions for the pilots on the property, it was lower starting wages which in theory would get fixed if recruitment was a problem, which it is not, if you exclude that almost none are immediately upgradable.
If Porter finds themselves with no growth and delaying or canceling orders, they will find themselves flush with Captains and realize they need to pay them less and since recruitment is on hold they won’t need those really nice wages to attract pilots.
Ask your FOAG, if the agreement can be negotiated without your consent during hard times, they obviously were able to during good times and we could argue, the Dash op would’ve had bigger raises last time if they had any input before the benchmark exercise.
Speaking of your FOAG, how do they get to be part of that, do you vote or were they appointed by the company or some other method.
Labour code is useless if your negotiators agree to it.

If, or should I say when, recession hits, the ones that got hired recently within the last year or so are gonna get hit hard. Jazz will always have air canada, but Porter doesnt have anybody, watch their expansion turn into reduction overnight. Boys n gals, if you have a seat with a decent seniority, better hold on to that cause you have no idea whats coming. Porter guys, better get a union before it s too late, and for God's sake, get rid of that pilot-grooming business going on. Cant say i didnt warn ya

[pilotguy53]

What stops wage reductions is the Canada Labour Code. You don't need a Union and dues for that protection.

I would argue you do, have you ever voted on your “agreement” from, I believe you it call FOAG. Has anything ever been presented with, you have a vote on this! If the answer is no, the labour code cannot stop your unofficial labour group from forcing a concessionary agreement on you!
They can negotiate a lower wage on your behalf, you do not have a union that would face recall should they be too company friendly and a union would not negotiate reduced wages unless forced by bankruptcy.
Before you go all Jazz, blah blah blah, it was not concessions for the pilots on the property, it was lower starting wages which in theory would get fixed if recruitment was a problem, which it is not, if you exclude that almost none are immediately upgradable.
If Porter finds themselves with no growth and delaying or canceling orders, they will find themselves flush with Captains and realize they need to pay them less and since recruitment is on hold they won’t need those really nice wages to attract pilots.
Ask your FOAG, if the agreement can be negotiated without your consent during hard times, they obviously were able to during good times and we could argue, the Dash op would’ve had bigger raises last time if they had any input before the benchmark exercise.
Speaking of your FOAG, how do they get to be part of that, do you vote or were they appointed by the company or some other method.
Labour code is useless if your negotiators agree to it.

If, or should I say when, recession hits, the ones that got hired recently within the last year or so are gonna get hit hard. Jazz will always have air canada, but Porter doesnt have anybody, watch their expansion turn into reduction overnight. Boys n gals, if you have a seat with a decent seniority, better hold on to that cause you have no idea whats coming. Porter guys, better get a union before it s too late, and for God's sake, get rid of that pilot-grooming business going on. Cant say i didnt warn ya

DOOM AND GLOOM! World is going to end. The aliens are coming! Everyone quit Porter right now so you don't get slammed by the recession.

[cdnavater]

I would argue you do, have you ever voted on your “agreement” from, I believe you it call FOAG. Has anything ever been presented with, you have a vote on this! If the answer is no, the labour code cannot stop your unofficial labour group from forcing a concessionary agreement on you!
They can negotiate a lower wage on your behalf, you do not have a union that would face recall should they be too company friendly and a union would not negotiate reduced wages unless forced by bankruptcy.
Before you go all Jazz, blah blah blah, it was not concessions for the pilots on the property, it was lower starting wages which in theory would get fixed if recruitment was a problem, which it is not, if you exclude that almost none are immediately upgradable.
If Porter finds themselves with no growth and delaying or canceling orders, they will find themselves flush with Captains and realize they need to pay them less and since recruitment is on hold they won’t need those really nice wages to attract pilots.
Ask your FOAG, if the agreement can be negotiated without your consent during hard times, they obviously were able to during good times and we could argue, the Dash op would’ve had bigger raises last time if they had any input before the benchmark exercise.
Speaking of your FOAG, how do they get to be part of that, do you vote or were they appointed by the company or some other method.
Labour code is useless if your negotiators agree to it.

If, or should I say when, recession hits, the ones that got hired recently within the last year or so are gonna get hit hard. Jazz will always have air canada, but Porter doesnt have anybody, watch their expansion turn into reduction overnight. Boys n gals, if you have a seat with a decent seniority, better hold on to that cause you have no idea whats coming. Porter guys, better get a union before it s too late, and for God's sake, get rid of that pilot-grooming business going on. Cant say i didnt warn ya

DOOM AND GLOOM! World is going to end. The aliens are coming! Everyone quit Porter right now so you don't get slammed by the recession.

I don’t think anyone is saying quit, I think right now there is risk in moving to a new company, Jazz CEO is literally planning, quite likely hoping for a recession. Also, if you don’t see it coming, you are either blind or too young to have seen the thing coming.
The world banking authorities are trying to creat one to get inflation down, problem is, they always go too far and it’s always worse than predicted. Hang on to your seat, I would definitely be thinking about numbers below me wherever I am right now.
I’ve seen some Jazz guys with 8 years leave for Porter lately, each time I think to myself, you’re nuts!

[cjp]

Porter has 50 E2's on order, of which 14 are on the line with at least 1 or 2 arriving every month. My understanding to get the price they had to accept the aggressive delivery schedule. At this point we are understaffed on both fleets with no relief for the time being. We are one of the cheaper products on the market with decent margin.

It's likely we can weather a storm and it looks like they built that into the MMG going forward by reducing it to 75 instead of 80 should we have a general reduction in frequency.

Management knows any 'junior' pilots they layoff are likely gone. Laying off would be a death sentence, as would reducing wages. The more prudent response would be reducing ground schools and let the flightline run thinner as more jets are added.

The dynamic of this recession is very interesting. My feelings are towards a short pinch with a rapid swing upwards at the end. A change in government and shifting immigration policy may help to curtail a deeper sink.

[fish4life]

I’ve thought we are going to have a full blown economic meltdown for a while though but somehow the economy seems to just truck along

[cdnavater]

I’ve thought we are going to have a full blown economic meltdown for a while though but somehow the economy seems to just truck along

If I wanted to buy my house today, my monthly mortgage would be over 5000, not including property tax or other house expenses, just the mortgage. That’s more than twice what I pay now and mostly towards interest, when my low rate expires in about 18 months if the rates haven’t gone back down my monthly payment will go up about 1000, point is most people can’t afford that kind of increase and I’m 18 months away from it, plenty who are there already.
I’m reasonably certain I couldn’t sell my house for what it was valued at, so I’m delaying the planned move until things stabilize or I have to renew my mortgage anyway.
I’m with you though, not sure what’s taking so long, the BOC keeps trying and the people keep spending, but there were job losses and reasons for the BoC to raise the rate yet again. It’s coming and in my opinion the longer it takes to arrive the worse it will be.

[cdnavater]

Porter has 50 E2's on order, of which 14 are on the line with at least 1 or 2 arriving every month. My understanding to get the price they had to accept the aggressive delivery schedule. At this point we are understaffed on both fleets with no relief for the time being. We are one of the cheaper products on the market with decent margin.

It's likely we can weather a storm and it looks like they built that into the MMG going forward by reducing it to 75 instead of 80 should we have a general reduction in frequency.

Management knows any 'junior' pilots they layoff are likely gone. Laying off would be a death sentence, as would reducing wages. The more prudent response would be reducing ground schools and let the flightline run thinner as more jets are added.

The dynamic of this recession is very interesting. My feelings are towards a short pinch with a rapid swing upwards at the end. A change in government and shifting immigration policy may help to curtail a deeper sink.

Thing is, depending on the level of recession, all hiring will stop so not so sure it would be a death sentence if there’s no where for those pilots to go.
I don’t think a prudent company would just keep getting deliveries of aircraft they can’t use to save a few bucks, you either pay more later or pay for them to sit. Besides, again in a recession, aircraft manufacturers also hurt so unless there’s another customer wanting those aircraft, the price is negotiable.
You are also putting your stock in a company that shuttered it doors for what, two years, you think they wouldn’t reduce your pay and lay off the surplus, I don’t think I’d be so confident.
Last thing, a reduction in your MMG from 85 to 75 is one pilot per 8, not a significant savings, anyhow like I said before, now is the time to hold onto your seat, however if anyone senior to me wants to, I’m all for it.

[flyinhigh]

Quick everyone run for the doors, go to Flair as they have a Union which will protect you during a recession.

This goes to ANY company people, not just Porter. If there’s a mass economic down turn, every company will make cuts, period regardless of who is representing the pilots.

[Flyerone]

Although it Sounds like this expansion will be short lived and lay offs are inevitable, I think it might slow down a little bit but nothing too drastic. Porter is a regional airline and wont be hit as bad as charter companies. Some companies will fall and that would work out great for porter's advantage.
Besides, if Porter start laying off pilots, when things pick up again, they gonna have a hell of a tough time rehiring to staff their planes, unless of course, the owner decides to scrap the plan all together and sell the E2s, which will tarnish porter's image. If they have the funds to ride it out, they will. Do or die type of thing.

[cjp]

Porter has 50 E2's on order, of which 14 are on the line with at least 1 or 2 arriving every month. My understanding to get the price they had to accept the aggressive delivery schedule. At this point we are understaffed on both fleets with no relief for the time being. We are one of the cheaper products on the market with decent margin.

It's likely we can weather a storm and it looks like they built that into the MMG going forward by reducing it to 75 instead of 80 should we have a general reduction in frequency.

Management knows any 'junior' pilots they layoff are likely gone. Laying off would be a death sentence, as would reducing wages. The more prudent response would be reducing ground schools and let the flightline run thinner as more jets are added.

The dynamic of this recession is very interesting. My feelings are towards a short pinch with a rapid swing upwards at the end. A change in government and shifting immigration policy may help to curtail a deeper sink.

Thing is, depending on the level of recession, all hiring will stop so not so sure it would be a death sentence if there’s no where for those pilots to go.
I don’t think a prudent company would just keep getting deliveries of aircraft they can’t use to save a few bucks, you either pay more later or pay for them to sit. Besides, again in a recession, aircraft manufacturers also hurt so unless there’s another customer wanting those aircraft, the price is negotiable.
You are also putting your stock in a company that shuttered it doors for what, two years, you think they wouldn’t reduce your pay and lay off the surplus, I don’t think I’d be so confident.
Last thing, a reduction in your MMG from 85 to 75 is one pilot per 8, not a significant savings, anyhow like I said before, now is the time to hold onto your seat, however if anyone senior to me wants to, I’m all for it.

See what happens.

You are also putting your stock in a company that shuttered it doors for what, two years, you think they wouldn’t reduce your pay and lay off the surplus, I don’t think I’d be so confident.

Due to complete government mandated border closures. Porter accurately predicted early on there would not be a resumption in normal ops when the uneducated concesus was this'll blow by like SARS. Borders don't close in a recession.

It's easy to be pessimistic, as negativity is like junkfood, be careful how much you consume.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Although it Sounds like this expansion will be short lived and lay offs are inevitable, I think it might slow down a little bit but nothing too drastic. Porter is a regional airline and wont be hit as bad as charter companies. Some companies will fall and that would work out great for porter's advantage.
Besides, if Porter start laying off pilots, when things pick up again, they gonna have a hell of a tough time rehiring to staff their planes, unless of course, the owner decides to scrap the plan all together and sell the E2s, which will tarnish porter's image. If they have the funds to ride it out, they will. Do or die type of thing.

“Porter is a regional airline”?

Lol. Is that what west coast to east coast airlines are called these days.

It’s full steam ahead here. They have a delivery schedule.
20 by Oct 4. And supposedly 50 by early November 2024. It’s happening. Recession or not, I’ve said it before…. The money isn’t in ticket sales. They know what they are doing, and I have full confidence in Porter.

Edit: I accidentally hit submit before I finished my rant.

Ticket sales absolutely are a big part of the equation. But they will weather the storm. They made a bold move and managed to get some nice cash during the pandemic while not running the operation at all. And if they have to, they will burn a couple mil to keep this going.

Don’t forget how much AC was burning a day during the pandemic

[CaptDukeNukem]

Porter has 50 E2's on order, of which 14 are on the line with at least 1 or 2 arriving every month. My understanding to get the price they had to accept the aggressive delivery schedule. At this point we are understaffed on both fleets with no relief for the time being. We are one of the cheaper products on the market with decent margin.

It's likely we can weather a storm and it looks like they built that into the MMG going forward by reducing it to 75 instead of 80 should we have a general reduction in frequency.

Management knows any 'junior' pilots they layoff are likely gone. Laying off would be a death sentence, as would reducing wages. The more prudent response would be reducing ground schools and let the flightline run thinner as more jets are added.

The dynamic of this recession is very interesting. My feelings are towards a short pinch with a rapid swing upwards at the end. A change in government and shifting immigration policy may help to curtail a deeper sink.

Thing is, depending on the level of recession, all hiring will stop so not so sure it would be a death sentence if there’s no where for those pilots to go.
I don’t think a prudent company would just keep getting deliveries of aircraft they can’t use to save a few bucks, you either pay more later or pay for them to sit. Besides, again in a recession, aircraft manufacturers also hurt so unless there’s another customer wanting those aircraft, the price is negotiable.
You are also putting your stock in a company that shuttered it doors for what, two years, you think they wouldn’t reduce your pay and lay off the surplus, I don’t think I’d be so confident.
Last thing, a reduction in your MMG from 85 to 75 is one pilot per 8, not a significant savings, anyhow like I said before, now is the time to hold onto your seat, however if anyone senior to me wants to, I’m all for it.

Our MMG was not 85. It’s 80. But I get your point. It was reduced yes. However, it’s still a raise. The second one in 6 months. we have gotten improvements in regards to pay, and some alignment with other sections in the contract.
What had jazz done?
We’re doing 24 E2 pilots a month. Not to mention the dash operation.
Edit: “it was 80 MMG, overtime at 85. Now it’s 75.”
Who cares. Every one can easily get to 85 right now. Trainers basically unlimited.

[CaptDukeNukem]

What stops wage reductions is the Canada Labour Code. You don't need a Union and dues for that protection.

I would argue you do, have you ever voted on your “agreement” from, I believe you it call FOAG. Has anything ever been presented with, you have a vote on this! If the answer is no, the labour code cannot stop your unofficial labour group from forcing a concessionary agreement on you!
They can negotiate a lower wage on your behalf, you do not have a union that would face recall should they be too company friendly and a union would not negotiate reduced wages unless forced by bankruptcy.
Before you go all Jazz, blah blah blah, it was not concessions for the pilots on the property, it was lower starting wages which in theory would get fixed if recruitment was a problem, which it is not, if you exclude that almost none are immediately upgradable.
If Porter finds themselves with no growth and delaying or canceling orders, they will find themselves flush with Captains and realize they need to pay them less and since recruitment is on hold they won’t need those really nice wages to attract pilots.
Ask your FOAG, if the agreement can be negotiated without your consent during hard times, they obviously were able to during good times and we could argue, the Dash op would’ve had bigger raises last time if they had any input before the benchmark exercise.
Speaking of your FOAG, how do they get to be part of that, do you vote or were they appointed by the company or some other method.
Labour code is useless if your negotiators agree to it.

If, or should I say when, recession hits, the ones that got hired recently within the last year or so are gonna get hit hard. Jazz will always have air canada, but Porter doesnt have anybody, watch their expansion turn into reduction overnight. Boys n gals, if you have a seat with a decent seniority, better hold on to that cause you have no idea whats coming. Porter guys, better get a union before it s too late, and for God's sake, get rid of that pilot-grooming business going on. Cant say i didnt warn ya

Jazz has AC?? Recent events have shown otherwise. Blatant contract violations, an absolute hard stance on giving more to attract and retain pilots, signing another CPA with a new company. To name a few.

If anything, if I was at jazz, and typed on anything that porter flies, I’d be climbing out the hatch of the Q4, or blowing the slide of their E1s.

Unions can’t protect against pilot reductions. If the company needs to lay off, it happens. At best, the way it layoffs and recalls gets handled is structured.

[Flyerone]

Although it Sounds like this expansion will be short lived and lay offs are inevitable, I think it might slow down a little bit but nothing too drastic. Porter is a regional airline and wont be hit as bad as charter companies. Some companies will fall and that would work out great for porter's advantage.
Besides, if Porter start laying off pilots, when things pick up again, they gonna have a hell of a tough time rehiring to staff their planes, unless of course, the owner decides to scrap the plan all together and sell the E2s, which will tarnish porter's image. If they have the funds to ride it out, they will. Do or die type of thing.

“Porter is a regional airline”?

Lol. Is that what west coast to east coast airlines are called these days.

It’s full steam ahead here. They have a delivery schedule.
20 by Oct 4. And supposedly 50 by early November 2024. It’s happening. Recession or not, I’ve said it before…. The money isn’t in ticket sales. They know what they are doing, and I have full confidence in Porter.

Edit: I accidentally hit submit before I finished my rant.

Ticket sales absolutely are a big part of the equation. But they will weather the storm. They made a bold move and managed to get some nice cash during the pandemic while not running the operation at all. And if they have to, they will burn a couple mil to keep this going.

Don’t forget how much AC was burning a day during the pandemic

Yes you are right. The money isnt in ticket sales, it s in selling the E2s as soon as they are delivered. At the end, they wont even own one E2. If things gets bad, they will just cut the lease and call it a day.

[TPP]

Although it Sounds like this expansion will be short lived and lay offs are inevitable, I think it might slow down a little bit but nothing too drastic. Porter is a regional airline and wont be hit as bad as charter companies. Some companies will fall and that would work out great for porter's advantage.
Besides, if Porter start laying off pilots, when things pick up again, they gonna have a hell of a tough time rehiring to staff their planes, unless of course, the owner decides to scrap the plan all together and sell the E2s, which will tarnish porter's image. If they have the funds to ride it out, they will. Do or die type of thing.

“Porter is a regional airline”?

Lol. Is that what west coast to east coast airlines are called these days.

It’s full steam ahead here. They have a delivery schedule.
20 by Oct 4. And supposedly 50 by early November 2024. It’s happening. Recession or not, I’ve said it before…. The money isn’t in ticket sales. They know what they are doing, and I have full confidence in Porter.

Edit: I accidentally hit submit before I finished my rant.

Ticket sales absolutely are a big part of the equation. But they will weather the storm. They made a bold move and managed to get some nice cash during the pandemic while not running the operation at all. And if they have to, they will burn a couple mil to keep this going.

Don’t forget how much AC was burning a day during the pandemic

Yes you are right. The money isnt in ticket sales, it s in selling the E2s as soon as they are delivered. At the end, they wont even own one E2. If things gets bad, they will just cut the lease and call it a day.

You sure sound like a Jazz pilot that's deeply confused why all of your colleges are leaving, mainly to Porter.

With a massive hangar being built in CYOW for E195 maintenance, and St Hubert airport expansion starting soon, selling off new planes Porter just acquired is probably the last thing they want to do.

Recession will slow down the economy but will not bring it to a hault like covid did.

With how much Porter saved during the pandemic while every other operator burned millions a day I suspect they have lot more free cash to burn then other operators that are still trying to slowly pay off the mountain of debt they acquired during the pandemic.

[twa22]

Wasn't the world supposed to crumble from a recession this year? How did that go?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.therin ... son-furman

[cdnavater]

Porter has 50 E2's on order, of which 14 are on the line with at least 1 or 2 arriving every month. My understanding to get the price they had to accept the aggressive delivery schedule. At this point we are understaffed on both fleets with no relief for the time being. We are one of the cheaper products on the market with decent margin.

It's likely we can weather a storm and it looks like they built that into the MMG going forward by reducing it to 75 instead of 80 should we have a general reduction in frequency.

Management knows any 'junior' pilots they layoff are likely gone. Laying off would be a death sentence, as would reducing wages. The more prudent response would be reducing ground schools and let the flightline run thinner as more jets are added.

The dynamic of this recession is very interesting. My feelings are towards a short pinch with a rapid swing upwards at the end. A change in government and shifting immigration policy may help to curtail a deeper sink.

Thing is, depending on the level of recession, all hiring will stop so not so sure it would be a death sentence if there’s no where for those pilots to go.
I don’t think a prudent company would just keep getting deliveries of aircraft they can’t use to save a few bucks, you either pay more later or pay for them to sit. Besides, again in a recession, aircraft manufacturers also hurt so unless there’s another customer wanting those aircraft, the price is negotiable.
You are also putting your stock in a company that shuttered it doors for what, two years, you think they wouldn’t reduce your pay and lay off the surplus, I don’t think I’d be so confident.
Last thing, a reduction in your MMG from 85 to 75 is one pilot per 8, not a significant savings, anyhow like I said before, now is the time to hold onto your seat, however if anyone senior to me wants to, I’m all for it.

Our MMG was not 85. It’s 80. But I get your point. It was reduced yes. However, it’s still a raise. The second one in 6 months. we have gotten improvements in regards to pay, and some alignment with other sections in the contract.
What had jazz done?
We’re doing 24 E2 pilots a month. Not to mention the dash operation.
Edit: “it was 80 MMG, overtime at 85. Now it’s 75.”
Who cares. Every one can easily get to 85 right now. Trainers basically unlimited.

I’m not trying to get our pissing match going again, just pointing out the elephant in the room, your non union group seems to have no accountability, nobody has answered how they get in that position yet.
I thought you were 85 before your last benchmark and it went to 80, then this more recent one it went to 75, if I wrong I had wrong information. If this is the case, they’ve been planning for a reduction for at least that long.
As for the other point I’m making, yes the border closed but they shuttered the entire operation not just the trans border, they didn’t pivot, they didn’t do anything except look for financing, all employees to the curb. Does this sound like a company that wouldn’t cut the fat to survive. They might run a little fat for the first bit but, they certainly have set precedent on how they handle a slowdown.
For flyinghigh, I’m not saying go anywhere, in fact I’m saying the opposite, stay put to ride it out. I’m not sure I would go to AC at this point, the BOC is hellbent on crashing the economy. I have a line of credit that I used for pretty much anything, buy a motorcycle, boat, side by side or whatever without having to go to the bank, before the interest rate hikes I was paying about 3%, just looked the other day it’s almost 9%. Completely tied to the prime rate, I wouldn’t go today to buy anything that requires a loan, I also wouldn’t have bought half the stuff if I knew I’d be paying 9% interest down the road, now I’m just working at paying it down. Mission accomplished, I won’t be participating in discretionary purchases, how does this affect the economy?
We also normally take a trip in the winter, this year has been canceled, how does this affect the airlines? I’m one person, I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one. I read an article yesterday, Canadians have burned through their savings and credit card debt is up. The house of cards is teetering, it will fall, do as you wish but putting your head in the sand is not a good option.

[cdnavater]

Wasn't the world supposed to crumble from a recession this year? How did that go?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.therin ... son-furman

Great article, however you realize that Canada is a separate country right, also they are basically saying it still could happen. You know what’s different in the US, when you get a mortgage, your rate doesn’t change unless you want it to, you get a 30 year mortgage at 3%, it stays at 3% unless you sell and buy a new house, then your new mortgage is at the new rate.
In Canada, we have this hodgepodge mixture of 1,2,3,4,5 year variable or the same in fixed rate but at the end of your term you renew for whatever the going rate is, first that’s fucken bullshit and should be abolished, second how many people can afford a 6% interest rate on a million dollar house, 6571/mth for the current 5 year fixed, much higher for shorter term.I know I’d be fucked if that were me, after Trudeau takes his pound of flesh, I don’t have much more than that left over every month.
Prediction is the BOC will raise it again, we are truly fucked and if you can’t see that, well, not my problem I guess.

[twa22]

Wasn't the world supposed to crumble from a recession this year? How did that go?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.therin ... son-furman

Great article, however you realize that Canada is a separate country right, also they are basically saying it still could happen. You know what’s different in the US, when you get a mortgage, your rate doesn’t change unless you want it to, you get a 30 year mortgage at 3%, it stays at 3% unless you sell and buy a new house, then your new mortgage is at the new rate.
In Canada, we have this hodgepodge mixture of 1,2,3,4,5 year variable or the same in fixed rate but at the end of your term you renew for whatever the going rate is, first that’s fucken bullshit and should be abolished, second how many people can afford a 6% interest rate on a million dollar house, 6571/mth for the current 5 year fixed, much higher for shorter term.I know I’d be fucked if that were me, after Trudeau takes his pound of flesh, I don’t have much more than that left over every month.
Prediction is the BOC will raise it again, we are truly fucked and if you can’t see that, well, not my problem I guess.

I didn't say we're going in the right direction, I'm just saying that it won't be the end of the world like some are claiming... If history has showed us anything, it's usually the US that gets hit worst, and Canada has generally followed the US but has always been hit less, or was "shielded" more.

One thing I personally think, the public won't stop flying, not from a recession. The world has changed, flying and traveling is more important now then ever before. The new gen continues to travel at unprecedented rates, and it will continue in the globalized world we live in now

[cjp]

Thing is, depending on the level of recession, all hiring will stop so not so sure it would be a death sentence if there’s no where for those pilots to go.
I don’t think a prudent company would just keep getting deliveries of aircraft they can’t use to save a few bucks, you either pay more later or pay for them to sit. Besides, again in a recession, aircraft manufacturers also hurt so unless there’s another customer wanting those aircraft, the price is negotiable.
You are also putting your stock in a company that shuttered it doors for what, two years, you think they wouldn’t reduce your pay and lay off the surplus, I don’t think I’d be so confident.
Last thing, a reduction in your MMG from 85 to 75 is one pilot per 8, not a significant savings, anyhow like I said before, now is the time to hold onto your seat, however if anyone senior to me wants to, I’m all for it.

Our MMG was not 85. It’s 80. But I get your point. It was reduced yes. However, it’s still a raise. The second one in 6 months. we have gotten improvements in regards to pay, and some alignment with other sections in the contract.
What had jazz done?
We’re doing 24 E2 pilots a month. Not to mention the dash operation.
Edit: “it was 80 MMG, overtime at 85. Now it’s 75.”
Who cares. Every one can easily get to 85 right now. Trainers basically unlimited.

I have a line of credit that I used for pretty much anything, buy a motorcycle, boat, side by side or whatever without having to go to the bank, before the interest rate hikes I was paying about 3%, just looked the other day it’s almost 9%. Completely tied to the prime rate, I wouldn’t go today to buy anything that requires a loan, I also wouldn’t have bought half the stuff if I knew I’d be paying 9% interest down the road, now I’m just working at paying it down. Mission accomplished, I won’t be participating in discretionary purchases, how does this affect the economy?
We also normally take a trip in the winter, this year has been canceled, how does this affect the airlines? I’m one person, I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one. I read an article yesterday, Canadians have burned through their savings and credit card debt is up. The house of cards is teetering, it will fall, do as you wish but putting your head in the sand is not a good option.

So what's happening is many people, mostly the middle generation that extended themselves on home ownership or dug deep into their line of credits are hurting with the jump in interest rates. Some will likely pull back a bit on spending. The big driver saving us from what you are reading in your articles is the Baby Boomer generation who are now mostly retired, with mortgages paid, giant pensions and savings accounts to fund their lifestyles.

It sounds like you are hurting, perhaps seek some debt counselling?

I don't think anyone is putting their head in the sand, arguments have been made both for and against, and looking critically at the operation there is no reason at this stage of the game for Porter to think about slowing down prematurely - loads for my next pairing are near or at 100% both directions.

Suggesting people wait in their seats out of fear - like at Jazz - could be construed as incredibly poor advice considering Air Canada's current stance on one of their longest running regionals.

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