"Unable, due to traffic" at 12,500

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YACdirect
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"Unable, due to traffic" at 12,500

Post by YACdirect »

Hello

Flying VFR at 12,500 I entered the area 60 out from Red Lake (Class B) - I called Center for flight following. They advised "unable due to traffic." That's all well and good since they aren't obligated to offer flight following - I suppose my question is "does class B start at 12,500 or 12,501?" If I can't get ATC clearance to operate in Class B (due to traffic) and it were to start at 12,500, would the highest useable westbound VFR altitude be 10,500?

The reason I ask is that I have found "12,500 and above" and "Above 12,500" in descriptions for class B airspace. Thoughts appreciated.

Still-in-YXL
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Aeros
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Post by Aeros »

From the trusty AIM:
2.8.2 Class B Airspace

All low level controlled airspace above 12 500 feet ASL or at and above the MEA, whichever is higher, up to but not including 18 000 feet ASL will be Class B airspace
If you want to get really fancy, we can look at the CARs:

CAR601.02(1):
The class of any controlled airspace of a type referred to in subsection 601.01(1) is one of the following, as specified in the Designated Airspace Handbook:

(a) Class A;
(b) Class B;
(c) Class C;
(d) Class D;
(e) Class E;
(f) Class F Special Use Restricted; or
(g) Class F Special Use Advisory.
Now, this doesn't say much, but it does tell us that the Designated Airspace Handbook is the source that will define the classes of airspace. It says:
Class B*
All low level controlled airspace above 12,500´ ASL or from the MEA, whichever is higher, to below
18,000´ ASL. TCAs and associated primary CZs may also be classified Class B airspace.
Looks like 12,500 is NOT Class B
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Post by Cap'n P8 »

I personally wouldn't use 12500 underneath the base of Class B, you only have one foot to go to a violation.
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YACdirect
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Post by YACdirect »

Thanks for the info

As for the highest useable altitude I neglected to mention it was with regards to the 13,000 unpressurized cabin limit not VFR limits.

As for the violation, I will usually be in contact with Center when that high; but I am pretty sure NC wouldn't be so petty as to write me up for somethign like that... but I suppose I should never assume anything...

Thanks!

s.i.YXL
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Post by flyinhigh »

Cap'n P8 wrote:I personally wouldn't use 12500 underneath the base of Class B, you only have one foot to go to a violation.
Exactly, also now if you are not talking to center maintaining this vfr at 12,500 and NO higher, you may have someone at 13K coming at ya, now I don't know about you but I wouldn't want someone 500 feet above me coming at unless I knew they were there.
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Post by YACdirect »

I always monitor Center whenever I am "mixing it up" with the IFRs - even if not talking I am always hearing things like "JV361 traffic 12 oclock six miles, opposite direction, type unknown 6,500 unverified at 205 knots" - meaning they know about me and I know about them. I know that doesn't mean they will ALWAYS know about me but I am surprised how often I am in some kind of conflict when I monitor or talk to CTR that coincidentally doesn't happen when calling my arse off on 126.7 & 122.8...
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