Day trip schedules

[Stable_Approach]

Was wondering how fatiguing day trips are? I would be about 75 mins on average from base. Spending a day flying then having to shit traffic home with consecutive work days. Is it that demanding and how do you manage?

[the_new_guy]

Was wondering how fatiguing day trips are? I would be about 75 mins on average from base. Spending a day flying then having to shit traffic home with consecutive work days. Is it that demanding and how do you manage?

If you are joining in the future, your relative seniority would mean you wouldn't hold very high credit day trips for a while, so any day trip would be doable with the drive from and to your home. There's also a good possibility you would be able to hold early multiday pairings should you prefer that. It's easier on your schedule in the sense that you don't have to drive daily and also easier on your wallet with today's gas prices.

And then in the future, when you'll be able to do higher credit day trips, it could be tiring but you'll end up working far less often when that time comes so more time home to do your things and relax.

I would ask though where is it that you live? This could impact the sort of flying you get.

[Stable_Approach]

YHM. Would apply for YYZ base.

[330heavy]

Doesn't Flair have a YKF base? Better traffic for same amount of time or less from YHM, assume there's opening there.

[Stable_Approach]

I heard they don’t do much flying out of there do they plan on growing that base? It just seems if something went south that would be the first base to close.

[the_new_guy]

YKF is a smaller base, however it's good business for Flair and growth in the coming years include growing ykf.

It would be easier for you and if you join as an FO there will be plenty of flying. I'd definitely look into it were I in your position. Hope this helps a bit.

[Stable_Approach]

YKF is a smaller base, however it's good business for Flair and growth in the coming years include growing ykf.

It would be easier for you and if you join as an FO there will be plenty of flying. I'd definitely look into it were I in your position. Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks for the info. Any idea how long reserve is now for new hires?

[Smilin' Jack]

Management has openly talked about launching a Southern Ontario base that would combine flying from YKF and YYZ. Transportation to and from either airport would then be up to the pilot. If they can get away with a Southern Ontario I would bet that YKF will close as a crew base. If it remains profitable for flying, they will continue to operate aircraft there. Abbotsford and Ottawa are two bases that we have closed because we can't staff them but flying still works from there. Kitchener could easily be next.

Currently, YKF is doing a ton of flying out of YYZ. Like way too much. Most YKF crew are in YKF because they don't want to be in YYZ. The good news is that ground transportation is being provided for now. We can't staff either base with the competition out here. We are choosing to bury our heads in the sand instead of making any attempt to compete with other airlines for crew. Apparently there is talk of negotiations with the company however, management has said no changes until after May. By then it will be too little, too late. We just can't grow a base that we can't staff.

Couldn't tell you how long everyone is sitting on reserve. We can't staff any base so probably not long. Crew Sched is quite fond of topping up block holder's schedules with random blocks of reserve and reserve holders with pre-assigned flights. You have no way of avoiding mixed blocks so if you don't like it, too bad.

Also, less than 25% of our flying is day trips. Most of our flying is max duty day so you'll either leave home early in the morning or come back late at night. How that impacts your fatigue levels is only a guess. Are you a morning person or an evening person? Until you can hold the block you want, it can be pretty tiring. I know a few YKF pilots drive from London or Niagara and they find it necessary to rent a hotel room when they have red eye flying, early mornings or reserve.

Is the drive fatiguing - it certainly can be.

[FurHat]

Management has openly talked about launching a Southern Ontario base that would combine flying from YKF and YYZ. Transportation to and from either airport would then be up to the pilot. If they can get away with a Southern Ontario I would bet that YKF will close as a crew base.

Swoop tried to do this with a YYZ-YHM "dual base" which would have pilots scheduled for pairings starting at either airport, with transportation being their responsibility. Transport Canada found out and shut it down so they had to split the base.

[rudder]

Management has openly talked about launching a Southern Ontario base that would combine flying from YKF and YYZ. Transportation to and from either airport would then be up to the pilot. If they can get away with a Southern Ontario I would bet that YKF will close as a crew base. If it remains profitable for flying, they will continue to operate aircraft there. Abbotsford and Ottawa are two bases that we have closed because we can't staff them but flying still works from there. Kitchener could easily be next.

Currently, YKF is doing a ton of flying out of YYZ. Like way too much. Most YKF crew are in YKF because they don't want to be in YYZ. The good news is that ground transportation is being provided for now. We can't staff either base with the competition out here. We are choosing to bury our heads in the sand instead of making any attempt to compete with other airlines for crew. Apparently there is talk of negotiations with the company however, management has said no changes until after May. By then it will be too little, too late. We just can't grow a base that we can't staff.

Couldn't tell you how long everyone is sitting on reserve. We can't staff any base so probably not long. Crew Sched is quite fond of topping up block holder's schedules with random blocks of reserve and reserve holders with pre-assigned flights. You have no way of avoiding mixed blocks so if you don't like it, too bad.

Also, less than 25% of our flying is day trips. Most of our flying is max duty day so you'll either leave home early in the morning or come back late at night. How that impacts your fatigue levels is only a guess. Are you a morning person or an evening person? Until you can hold the block you want, it can be pretty tiring. I know a few YKF pilots drive from London or Niagara and they find it necessary to rent a hotel room when they have red eye flying, early mornings or reserve.

Is the drive fatiguing - it certainly can be.

Can you explain again why pilots choose to work at Flair?

[the_new_guy]

YKF is a smaller base, however it's good business for Flair and growth in the coming years include growing ykf.

It would be easier for you and if you join as an FO there will be plenty of flying. I'd definitely look into it were I in your position. Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks for the info. Any idea how long reserve is now for new hires?

For FOs basically none you'll most likely get a full flying bloc pretty much from the get go

[Smilin' Jack]

Can you explain again why pilots choose to work at Flair?

Home every night, quick upgrades, industry leading pay and working conditions.

Honestly, I don't know any more. Type rating and 500 hours on type to get the Air Canada application in I guess. If you're a Captain and looking to go overseas, you'll get PIC time on the 737 which will open a ton of doors. Come for good time; not a long time should be our motto.

[lament]

Home every night, quick upgrades, industry leading pay and working conditions.

Don't forget working where you live (but we just closed two bases)

[Stable_Approach]

Home every night, quick upgrades, industry leading pay and working conditions.

Don't forget working where you live (but we just closed two bases)

Which bases closed?

[Michel Myers]

CYXX closed and unfortunately the YXX crews have to commute to YVR
The CYOW base closed but became a pilot port with the addition of CYUL (which is plus for the CYUL commuters) so no pilots need to move for now Anyway…awaiting a LOU regarding ports which was supposed to come out a month ago.

[co-joe]

Was wondering how fatiguing day trips are? I would be about 75 mins on average from base. Spending a day flying then having to shit traffic home with consecutive work days. Is it that demanding and how do you manage?

Knowing that the goal of the company is to do out and back flying (or so we thought before November 2023), I would think that living that far from the airport would be extremely fatiguing especially when you are junior. That said, we have lots of pilots that live more than an hour from check in.

For reserve callout, you have to be able to check in, in 90 minutes which would be fine, and for duty rest there is no requirement for the pilot to live close. Rest starts when you get home and ends when you get 10 hours uninterrupted, so you'd always be having to remind the night dispatchers of the start of your duty rest. They use google maps average drive times to determine how tightly they can schedule you. 3 Months ago I'd have said our goal is all single day pairings, but the past few months the route planning department has F'd that up completely, now nobody knows what next month will look like. We have multiple multi day overnights, out of base reserve shifts, single day turns, reserve, and everything in between.

If you're looking at YYZ and YKF bases, or the YOW/YUL ports whenever that LOU materializes (they have said those ports will be open bid to everyone possibly OTS included because there aren't enough YOW pilots to fully cover them), they are short FO's thanks to better opportunities at PD and AC, so likely your seniority will move up quickly at first, and you'll get a decent amount of flying.

PS try to shit at the airport, having to go in traffic is really unpleasant.

[co-joe]

Can you explain again why pilots choose to work at Flair?

No, go troll somewhere else.

[cdnavater]

Can you explain again why pilots choose to work at Flair?

No, go troll somewhere else.

Wow, I’ve seen it all now, calling rudder a troll!

[rudder]

Can you explain again why pilots choose to work at Flair?

No, go troll somewhere else.

Not really a troll question.

An active Flair pilot described the state of affairs at Flair in terms of WAWCON. So asking that question seemed reasonable.

FWIW - there other carriers where the question is equally valid. Where I work I would have a tough time answering the same question.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Does the 90 minute report call out time include the walk from airway center across a highway while dragging your bags thru snow to the terminal?

[Smilin' Jack]

90 minutes from call to the gate.

[Canadaflyer46]

90 minutes to report and also out of base reserve? Who the hell agreed to this garbage?