cost to train a new recruit?

[newlygrounded]

I've head from some friends it costs upwards of $1 million to train a new controller. This sounds like an Insane number. Even a start to finish ATPL with type ratings is a quarter of that at most. How accurate is the value, and what causes it to be so high?

[wordstwice]

Approximately $1.2 million for IFR controller

Approximately $900k for FSS,

Vast majority of that is labour but lots of other costs.

[digits_]

Approximately $1.2 million for IFR controller

Approximately $900k for FSS,

Vast majority of that is labour but lots of other costs.

I'm really curious how they calculate that number. If it's mainly labour, 1.2 million is over 5 year of full time employment that would be spend on one controller? Seems a bit high. I can hardly imagine a controller needs 5 year of 1 on 1 training.

[wordstwice]

Where do you get 5 years from?

People tend to think of just instructors salary but add in the entire training team from IPS, TDI, MALD, LQS, IDS, OTS just to mention a few, then the figure grows quickly.

I’m not here to substantiate the figures though, just posting what Nav Canada claims to be the cost. Believe it or not, your choice.

[digits_]

Where do you get 5 years from?

People tend to think of just instructors salary but add in the entire training team from IPS, TDI, MALD, LQS, IDS, OTS just to mention a few, then the figure grows quickly.

I’m not here to substantiate the figures though, just posting what Nav Canada claims to be the cost. Believe it or not, your choice.

1.2 million divided by a training controller's annual salary (200k?) and a bit of a buffer. Very rough numbers of course.

I have no doubt they end up with that number somehow, just curious as to how they determined it.

It could be a case of: we can train 10 for 12 million dollars (1.2 each) or 15 for 15 million, since we have all the infrastructure already. Or it could cost 10 million to only train one because we had to build an expensive sim.

I have a suspicion that the answer to the question will highly depend on who's asking it.

[nvcatc]

Don't forget a lot of it is paid at OT rates now. Instructors in specialty are pulled from the floor for however many months a course takes, and those classes generally are quite small per specialty. If a course needs to be rebuilt and new sims created because of airspace/procedure changes, that's a controller off the floor for however many weeks that takes. If there aren't enough controllers around to release people on straight time, you have to back-fill those slots with OT.

Students are also paid and given benefits, so that has to be factored in - on top of the salaries and benefits of all the other training support people already mentioned.

Factor in that the success rate for training is low. If 30-50% of students make it, add to them the cost of the ones who don't.

[newlygrounded]

Approximately $1.2 million for IFR controller

Approximately $900k for FSS,

Vast majority of that is labour but lots of other costs.

I'm really curious how they calculate that number. If it's mainly labour, 1.2 million is over 5 year of full time employment that would be spend on one controller? Seems a bit high. I can hardly imagine a controller needs 5 year of 1 on 1 training.

Maybe it's the cost of all the washout candidates tied in, like for every 10 trainees 1 gets through but you have to add the cost of the 9 for the average?

[newlygrounded]

Where do you get 5 years from?

People tend to think of just instructors salary but add in the entire training team from IPS, TDI, MALD, LQS, IDS, OTS just to mention a few, then the figure grows quickly.

I’m not here to substantiate the figures though, just posting what Nav Canada claims to be the cost. Believe it or not, your choice.

Sorry to ask but what are all the acronyms?

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Where do you get 5 years from?

People tend to think of just instructors salary but add in the entire training team from IPS, TDI, MALD, LQS, IDS, OTS just to mention a few, then the figure grows quickly.

I’m not here to substantiate the figures though, just posting what Nav Canada claims to be the cost. Believe it or not, your choice.

Sorry to ask but what are all the acronyms?

- IPS: IFR Program Specialist (Teach the IFR Course)
- RTS: Regional Training Specialist (Teach the VFR Tower Course)
- TDI: Temporary Duty Instructor
- MALD: Manager of ATS Learning Delivery (Usually the Manager for Learning in each FIR. There are also higher-up training managers at the National Level in Ottawa).
- LQS: Learning Quality Specialist (Assist trainees with helping with study habits, developing individual training plans, liase with the operational unit/OJI to assist if the trainee encounters any struggles).
- IDS: I'm not sure on that one. Maybe Instructional Design Support? (Develop lesson plans, other admin stuff).
-OTS: Operational Training Specialist (They run the simulators for complex tower and/or IFR SIM's. Only basic VFR Tower SIM's are voice-regognition. For YYZ, there are at least 4 or 5 OTS's "acting" as the airplanes and moving them around the airport environment in the SIM for any given SIM run).
- OJI: On-The-Job Instructor (Actually teach the trainee when controlling live traffic. I wouldn't count their salary in the final number as they'd be working whether there was a trainee or not. I would tend just to count the OJI premium which is a bonus that is only paid while actively teaching during live traffic).

[nrgxlr8tr]

Where do you get 5 years from?

People tend to think of just instructors salary but add in the entire training team from IPS, TDI, MALD, LQS, IDS, OTS just to mention a few, then the figure grows quickly.

I’m not here to substantiate the figures though, just posting what Nav Canada claims to be the cost. Believe it or not, your choice.

1.2 million divided by a training controller's annual salary (200k?) and a bit of a buffer. Very rough numbers of course.

I have no doubt they end up with that number somehow, just curious as to how they determined it.

It could be a case of: we can train 10 for 12 million dollars (1.2 each) or 15 for 15 million, since we have all the infrastructure already. Or it could cost 10 million to only train one because we had to build an expensive sim.

I have a suspicion that the answer to the question will highly depend on who's asking it.

That's not necessarily the case. There's generally two components to training: theoretical and practical.

Theoretically, the theory component could be taught to a near unlimited number of people. You could probably have a university-style auditorium and deliver theory to 500 people to the level where they'd pass a written exam (80% is the pass threshold). That doesn't mean you can graduate 500 controllers. The hardest part is the practical simulator, which for students to succeed requires lots of one-on-one time. That just isn't possible without more instructors, who are all controllers, who are busy working the floor. And that's just generic. Specialty instructing is even more short-staffed.

Everyone in the company has lots of opinions on how to better run training. But everyone agrees on one thing - there are not enough instructors even for the current number of students.