When you say.."Cleared for take off......"
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When you say.."Cleared for take off......"
Do you look outside? I've just got to ask in light of the accident in LEX?
Big difference in the way things are done at U.S. airports vs. Canadian airports. Here in Canada the aircraft has to be almost holding short of the runway before clearance to take off can be given (tower controllers feel free to correct me here), whereas in the U.S. they apparently don't have the same rules/procedures.
Apparently the CRJ was given takeoff clearance way before he even got near the runways. From what I understand, he was barely off the ramp when he got the takeoff clearance.
It's the same sort of thing with arrivals. Here in Canada cleared to land means there is no one in your way, either in the air or on the runway. This is very different then the U.S. where "number 5, cleared to land" is not uncommon.
Apparently the CRJ was given takeoff clearance way before he even got near the runways. From what I understand, he was barely off the ramp when he got the takeoff clearance.
It's the same sort of thing with arrivals. Here in Canada cleared to land means there is no one in your way, either in the air or on the runway. This is very different then the U.S. where "number 5, cleared to land" is not uncommon.
We're supposed to scan the runway when issuing take-off/landing clearances to make sure there aren't any obstructions (debris, animals, other aircraft....) on the runway. I hope the controller would notice the fact that there wasn't an aircraft where there should be one. However, people can and do make mistakes.
With the runway setup in LEX, the procedure is "probably" to call tower on the west side of runway 24, for departures on 22. This would make it easier when ground and tower are split, because there would be less coordination involved to cross 24. Tower would know where the holes are to cross, and would tell the a/c to cross rather than tell ground to tell them to cross, then switch them to tower freq.
That said, I skimmed the transcript this morning, and didn't see anywhere authorization to cross runway 24. I very well could have missed it, or maybe it isn't required in the US system. In Canada, a/c have to be either instructed to cross or hold short of any runway they will come to on taxi.
St Andrews has a similar situation, where the thresholds of 18 and 13 come close together. The a/c will call on the west side of 18 for departure on 13. The tower will tell the a/c to taxi across 18 to position 13, and then when they see them across 18 they will clear them for takeoff. They do it this way because of countless pilots who have taxied to position on 18 instead of 13.
But to answer your question, yes we do look out the window when giving takeoff clearance.
That said, I skimmed the transcript this morning, and didn't see anywhere authorization to cross runway 24. I very well could have missed it, or maybe it isn't required in the US system. In Canada, a/c have to be either instructed to cross or hold short of any runway they will come to on taxi.
St Andrews has a similar situation, where the thresholds of 18 and 13 come close together. The a/c will call on the west side of 18 for departure on 13. The tower will tell the a/c to taxi across 18 to position 13, and then when they see them across 18 they will clear them for takeoff. They do it this way because of countless pilots who have taxied to position on 18 instead of 13.
But to answer your question, yes we do look out the window when giving takeoff clearance.
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invertedattitude
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Nope.invertedattitude wrote:That being said, do you Tower controllers find it hard to get a readback from American pilots when telling them things like, Taxi via Alpha, Charlie, cross runway 36, delta hold short runway 27"
They all seem to read back their taxi instructions, for whatever reason.
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tower controller
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Doc in answer to your original post...
99 times out of 100 I'll look at the aircraft as I'm issuing Take off clearance, but sometimes due to workload, etc you can't watch everybody, and after reading the transcript and looking at the airport diagram I can see how this happened. From where the tower is in LEX I think it would be hard to tell which threshold the aircraft was on.
And to invertedattitude's question, the majority of our traffic is American, and we don't have any trouble getting readbacks of Hold Short from them, we have more trouble getting them from Canadian pilots.
99 times out of 100 I'll look at the aircraft as I'm issuing Take off clearance, but sometimes due to workload, etc you can't watch everybody, and after reading the transcript and looking at the airport diagram I can see how this happened. From where the tower is in LEX I think it would be hard to tell which threshold the aircraft was on.
And to invertedattitude's question, the majority of our traffic is American, and we don't have any trouble getting readbacks of Hold Short from them, we have more trouble getting them from Canadian pilots.
There is no requirement to read back the runway number when responding to a takeoff clearance. Under most circumstances just responding with your ident is acceptable, and preferred if the frequency is busy.also, when cleared to takeoff, do you absolutely have to read back the rwy #?
From ICAO Doc4444
".......
4.5.7.5 READ-BACK OF CLEARANCES
4.5.7.5.1 The flight crew shall read back to the air traffic controller safety-related parts of ATC clearances and instructions which are transmitted by voice. The following items shall always be read back:
a) ATC route clearances;
b) clearances and instructions to enter, land on, take off on, hold short of, cross taxi and backtrack on any runway; and
c) runway-in-use, altimeter settings, SSR codes, level instructions, heading and speed instructions and, whether issued by the controller or contained in automatic terminal information service (ATIS) broadcasts, transition levels.
Note.— If the level of an aircraft is reported in relation to standard pressure 1 013.2 hPa, the words “FLIGHT LEVEL” precede the level figures. If the level of the aircraft is reported in relation to QNH/QFE, the figures are followed by the word “METRES” or “FEET”, as appropriate.
4.5.7.5.1.1 Other clearances or instructions, including conditional clearances, shall be read back or acknowledged in a manner to clearly indicate that they have been understood and will be complied with.
4.5.7.5.2 The controller shall listen to the read-back to ascertain that the clearance or instruction has been correctly acknowledged by the flight crew and shall take immediate
action to correct any discrepancies revealed by the read-back.
4.5.7.5.2.1 Unless specified by the appropriate ATS authority, voice read-back of controller-pilot data link communications (CPDLC) messages shall not be required.
Note.— The procedures and provisions relating to the exchange and acknowledgement of CPDLC messages are contained in Annex 10, Volume II and the PANS-ATM, Chapter 14.
......."
".......
4.5.7.5 READ-BACK OF CLEARANCES
4.5.7.5.1 The flight crew shall read back to the air traffic controller safety-related parts of ATC clearances and instructions which are transmitted by voice. The following items shall always be read back:
a) ATC route clearances;
b) clearances and instructions to enter, land on, take off on, hold short of, cross taxi and backtrack on any runway; and
c) runway-in-use, altimeter settings, SSR codes, level instructions, heading and speed instructions and, whether issued by the controller or contained in automatic terminal information service (ATIS) broadcasts, transition levels.
Note.— If the level of an aircraft is reported in relation to standard pressure 1 013.2 hPa, the words “FLIGHT LEVEL” precede the level figures. If the level of the aircraft is reported in relation to QNH/QFE, the figures are followed by the word “METRES” or “FEET”, as appropriate.
4.5.7.5.1.1 Other clearances or instructions, including conditional clearances, shall be read back or acknowledged in a manner to clearly indicate that they have been understood and will be complied with.
4.5.7.5.2 The controller shall listen to the read-back to ascertain that the clearance or instruction has been correctly acknowledged by the flight crew and shall take immediate
action to correct any discrepancies revealed by the read-back.
4.5.7.5.2.1 Unless specified by the appropriate ATS authority, voice read-back of controller-pilot data link communications (CPDLC) messages shall not be required.
Note.— The procedures and provisions relating to the exchange and acknowledgement of CPDLC messages are contained in Annex 10, Volume II and the PANS-ATM, Chapter 14.
......."
From the CAR's
The notable exception would be an instruction to "hold" or "hold short", in these circumstances the controller is required to obtain an accurate readback of the instruction issuedCompliance with Air Traffic Control Instructions and Clearances
602.31 (1) Subject to subsection (3), the pilot-in command of an aircraft shall
(a) comply with and acknowledge, to the appropriate air traffic control unit, all of the air traffic control instructions directed to and received by the pilot-in-command; and
(b) comply with all of the air traffic control clearances received and accepted by the pilot-in-command and
(i) subject to subsection (2), in the case of an IFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received, and
(ii) in the case of a VFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received, when so requested by the air traffic control unit.
