Tim Hortons co-founder reported to be OK after plane crashes

[bigsky]

THE CANADIAN PRESS
Published Sunday November 11th, 2007
FOX HARBOUR, N.S. - A private jet carrying Tim Hortons co-founder Ron Joyce crashed Sunday at the northern Nova Scotia golf resort he owns, though no one was seriously injured.

The Bombardier Global 5000, en route from Hamilton, ran into trouble while landing in high winds at the Fox Harb'r Resort's private airstrip around 2:30 p.m. local time.

The Mounties, who confirmed Joyce was on board, said it appeared the jet's wing hit the runway, causing the plane to spin before stopping near the end of the runway. There was no fire.

The jet was carrying two crew members and eight passengers, who were taken to hospital to be checked out but there were no major injuries.

Steven Joyce, Ron Joyce's son, was on the plane and said it was a rough flight before the crash.

"It's a pretty windy day, we were bouncing around a fair amount," Joyce said in an interview

"We've activated our emergency response plan. It's one of those things that you put together and you never really think you're going to use it."

He said the jet's landing gear "folded up" during the crash.

"It looks like a plane lying on its stomach in the grass," said Joyce.

It was a brand new jet, delivered to the resort last month.

Officials with the Transporation Safety Board were sent to the scene Sunday evening.

Spokesman John Cottreau said the board would assess the crash and determine whether a full investigation is neccessary.

"We investigate to learn lessons if we see something that bears further looking at to learn lessons that might avoid it in the future," said Cottreau.

The Mounties set up a mobile command post at the resort as they continued their own investigation, said Const. Paul Calder.

"We're quite happy that we don't appear to have any major serious injuries," he said.

Calder said the provincial Environment Department has also been contacted because the jet is still carrying aviation fuel.

Ron Joyce, 77, who grew up in Tatamagouche, N.S, started the iconic Tim Hortons (TSX:THI) doughnut chain with NHL defenceman Tim Horton in the 1960s.

Joyce announced in 1995 that he was selling Tim Hortons to the Wendy's fast-food chain.

[bald seagull]

The Mounties, who confirmed Joyce was on board, said it appeared the jet's wing hit the runway, causing the plane to spin before stopping near the end of the runway. There was no fire.

Doing donuts on the runway - how ironic!

.........

[Justwannafly]

The Mounties, who confirmed Joyce was on board, said it appeared the jet's wing hit the runway, causing the plane to spin before stopping near the end of the runway. There was no fire.

Doing donuts on the runway - how ironic!

.........

LOL

[bobcaygeon]

Will there be more pilots looking for work????

I seem to recall some firing going on when there was bent metal in YHM a few years ago.

[xsbank]

It must have been pretty ugly there to bust a Global - I think that's the very first, certainly the first 5000. Another one over-ran a runway but didn't do any damage. That captain was fired and the copilot was sent to assertiveness training 'cause he kept saying "I don't like this" "I think we're too high" I think we're too fast" instead of saying "GO AROUND!" or "REJECT!" Great having CVR, eh?

There will be a lot of gnashing of teeth over this one.

Why did the Mounties set up a 'command post' for a landing accident where no one was injured? Curious how the filthy rich are treated differently than the rest of us.

[Old fella]

Oh well............ another 2 cent increase on a "double - double" to recover costs on salvage/write off/insurance/lawsuits/counter-suits/lost golf games/ skivvies changes/scared chalet owners/media hounding/TSB,TC and Nav Canada……………

[bald seagull]

Why did the Mounties set up a 'command post' for a landing accident where no one was injured? Curious how the filthy rich are treated differently than the rest of us.

Are you kidding? Of course the cops would set up shop near a Tim Hortons! Free apple fritters.....mmmmmmm

[Sampson]

Hmmm, are we seeing a pattern here or what? Remember the Astra a few years ago that clipped some treetops going below minimums in IMC. Apparently "the man" was quite adamant that the crew get him there no matter what. Now this. Makes you wonder how much pressure the crew was under to get their precious cargo to destination. I feel sorry for crews that have to compromise safety for the sake of their bosses. Sooner or later it catches up with you no? Glad to hear everyone walked away.
Now all of this is based on what I have heard (from reliable sources of course) so feel free to correct if I'm wrong.

[GilletteNorth]

I've driven in my car enough that I know what I can and can't do alot of different situations. I've mostly been a conservative driver. If a representative from Ferrari walked up, threw me the keys to their F1 racer and told me I could be their driver in the next formula one race, I'd laugh in their face. That's because I am also familiar with the limits of my driving ability. I bet the pilots of that Global 5000 are familiar with the limit of their flying ability. I doubt they thought their ability would be exceeded during the landing or they would not have attempted it. So pressure to land shouldn't be an issue. An unfortunate gust at the last moment perhaps? Rhetorical question: pilot's don't bet the lives of their passengers just to keep their jobs... do they?

[flyinphil]

Hmmm. Their insurance premiums must be getting pretty high.
Caravan crash in the river at Arnprior. Gear down.
Astra SPX off the runway at Truro. Landed on wrong runway.
Astra SPX hit trees at Fox Harbour.
Astra SPX off runway in Hamilton.
Global 5000 runway accident Fox Harbour.

All this within the last 10 years. That is a horrible record, certainly the worst I have ever seen.

[boxcar]

I remember the Caravan crash it was near Fitzroy Harbour while landing to drop kids off at the Tim Horton's camp. I didn't realize it was their aircraft. Great work by the fishermen off Quyon Quebec they got all the kids off safely.

[Inverted2]

Isnt the runway only like 4000' at Fox Harbour? With the wet snow yesterday that would have been somewhat difficult in a Global Express.

[Navajo-dude]

CFS says 4,885' x 75'

[gasper]

Wow this aircraft was a very recent addition to the Jetport Fleet, and registered only a few days ago (Oct 19/2007)!

___________________________________________________________

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activepage ... urrent.asp

***Current Information, directly from the Official Canadian Civil Aircraft Register database.***

Aircraft Information

Mark: C-GXPR
Common Name: Bombardier Model Name: BD-700-1A11
Serial No: 9211
Basis for Eligibility for Registration: Type Certificate - CAR Standard 507.02 (1), 507.03 (3) - A177
Category: Aeroplane Max take-off weight: 39780 kgs
Engine: 2, Turbo Fan
24-bit address: 110000001000001011111100
Regional Office: Toronto
Base of Operations: CANADA , Ontario, Hamilton

Manufacturer Information

Manufacturer: Bombardier Inc.
Country of manufacture: CANADA Year of Manufacture: 2006

Registration Information

Type of Registration: Commercial
Owner Registered Since: 2007-10-19
Latest Certificate of Registration Issued: 2007-10-19

Last Registered Owner Information

Name: Jetport Inc.
Address: 520 - 9300 Airport Road
City: Mount Hope Province/State: Ontario
Postal Code: L0R 1W0 Country: CANADA
Region: Ontario

[invertedattitude]

Off the runway in Truro.... considering there's no airport in Truro I can understand that. Debert

[Siddley Hawker]

The weather was pretty duff down there yesterday. They had 20-some cm of snow in Halifax and snow in Sydney and Charlottetown, with some pretty stiff winds.

CFS says 4,885' x 75'

We used to go into Bathurst with the G1 when it was 75 feet wide. There's not a lot of room for error if there's a crosswind or the runway surface is contaminated.

[DowneastGuy]

The SPX landed on the wrong (short) runway in Trenton, NS, not Debert. It was around 2500', since closed.

[xsbank]

Funny, I thought I posted that the Global wingspan is 94', plus some other mindless speculation? Oh well.

"The wingspan of the Global is 94'; sounds like there will be some interesting repercussions from this which we are not likely to hear... the crew were probably right out of Type school and must have only had a couple of hours on her. The Global can also have a Vref of less than 100 knots - I'd sure like to hear more about this."

I hear there has been a Challenger crash somewhere too.... I'm looking.

Seems there are more than one thread about this accident.

Edit - some doorknob journalist is calling it a Challenger Global Express.

[CID]

Edit - some doorknob journalist is calling it a Challenger Global Express.

Well that's just inexcusable!

[hazatude]

I'm glad everyone was ok.

[flyinphil]

Yes inverted, it was Trenton, my mistake.

I couldn't agree more Haz, but, it is time for the regulatory body to examine the operator. The numbers are far too high for coincidence. Time to examine the safety and operational culture. After all, they are right next door to TC.

Problem is, deep pockets scare people, especially regultory pions when numerous politicians, judges and appeals judges sit on boards and have "spousal" franchises. Hmmm, bought and paid for!

[the_professor]

The SPX landed on the wrong (short) runway in Trenton, NS, not Debert. It was around 2500', since closed.

What? An Astra on a 2500' runway? How did that happen?

Greg Warren mistaking a drag strip for a runway in a Lear is one thing, but someone landing a jet on 2500'?

[Snowgoose]

A few more details.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20071112 ... lane_crash

FOX HARBOUR, N.S. - Tim Hortons (TSX:THI - news) co-founder Ron Joyce, who survived a jet crash at his northern Nova Scotia golf resort over the weekend, compares the harrowing experience to being in a car wreck, saying there was little time to think before it was over.

"It's a little more spectacular with airplanes, but it's like a motor vehicle accident," Joyce said Monday, with his brand-new private jet lying on its belly in the distance.

"We don't know, I don't know what happened. ... I am just happy to be standing here talking to you. It scared the hell out of me."

The Bombardier Global 5000, en route from Hamilton, crashed Sunday afternoon while landing in high winds at the Fox Harb'r Resort. There were no major injuries among the eight passengers and two crew members on board, though one of the pilots was still in hospital.

It wasn't yet clear what caused the crash, but investigators with the Transportation Safety Board revealed more about what happened as they opened a full investigation into the mishap.

It appears the aircraft landed just short of the runway, hitting a small lip before the pavement. The impact caused the landing gear to collapse, sending the plane spinning on the runway and skidding to a stop about 300 metres away.

"Whether they can repair it or not, I don't know, but it will be a long time before it's flying again if it can be," said Joyce, 77, himself a pilot.

"This is an absolutely marvellous airplane. I'm heartbroken because I was looking forward to doing a lot of travelling with it, and it's good for the business we're involved in."

Yves Jolicoeur, who is heading the Transportation Safety Board's investigation, said the federal agency would be looking at a wide range of potential factors.

"We're going to look at all aspects, the weather conditions, and we'll look at the operation, the training of the pilot, everything," he said.

The aircraft's flight data recorder has been sent to Ottawa for analysis, and Jolicoeur said investigators expected to have more information from the device in the coming days.

The jet was delivered to the resort only last month, and Jolicoeur said the aircraft had logged fewer than 100 hours of flying time.

The plane was operated by Hamilton-based Jetport, a charter flight company that is also controlled by Joyce.

Bombardier (TSX:BBD.B - news) has also been asked to assist investigators, and the Montreal-based company sent its own staff to the scene.

"It's an aircraft problem and of course the Canadian Transportation Safety Board will open an investigation on this," said Bombardier spokesman Marc Duschesne. "We have Bombardier aircraft representatives that are on site helping with the investigation."

Joyce, who grew up in Tatamagouche, N.S, started Tim Hortons in the 1960s, partnering with NHL defenceman Tim Horton.

He sold the company to the Wendy's fast-food chain more than 10 years ago.

The Fox Harb'r Resort is an exclusive, private gated community located along the Northumberland Strait. It features a golf course, skeet shooting, a deep water marina and a secluded beach.

[xsbank]

That means the TSB will blow through the training department like Katrina - I hope the instructor kept good records.

Landed short and tore of the gear

Would be more interesting if the a/c had belonged to Joyce personally, then the CBAA would have been involved, and I've not seen what that means.

Widow, how does this investigation compare to the one done on 'your' accident?

[Widow]

Gee xsbank. Five "nobodies" died in "our" accident, in an old "we already know everything that can go wrong with" DHC-2. They did not take the fuselage for examination, or any parts thereof. When we recovered the engine, they took a few parts and sent the rest back to me (although they told us they would hang on to it until engineering tests were complete in case they needed to look at something else). There is a part they want from the fuselage. We sent them what we thought was the part, but apparently it wasn't. So now I've got to organize my life and kids around someone else who might know what it looks like to take an hours drive (each way) to the storage container and try to find said part. Nobody at TSB gave a rats ass about the quality of the operation (or operational control). I'm not even gonna talk about weather. Witnesses, of course, are unreliable. There has never been a coroner's report either (pathology report yes, coroner's report no).

Nobody "important", not in a location of "high visibility, not a fancy new a/c ... nothing can be learned from our accident.

I guess the TSB figure they can save lives by figuring out why this one happened ...