Hope NDB Error
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Hope NDB Error
Last summer I was testing my avionics on a VFR flight from Vancouver to the interior. I was tracking B9 which goes from Hope NDB to Kamloops NDB, at 9500 feet. From Hope the track is 009deg, but while tracking it I observed that I was being led well to the west of the airway - just about up the Fraser Canyon. After doing that for a while I switched to Kamloops NDB, which was way more accurate, and I regained the airway. My ADF has been accurate everywhere else, so I suspect mountain effect in that area. Has anyone else observed this?
randall g =%^)> C-GTUM - 1974 Cardinal RG - CZBB
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Re: Hope NDB Error
Did you do anything to test that your ADF was actually trying to track the beacon? Ident signal, ADF test function?
Re: Hope NDB Error
Wasn't there a NOTAM out in the summer saying the Hope NDB was u/s? Maybe it still is 

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Re: Hope NDB Error
Hard to say in that specific instance.
But generally speaking an aircraft that is truly navigating using NDBs or VORs looks like a drunken sailor zig-zagging down the sidewalk after leaving the pub, as compared to someone flying a GPS track.
I've had /S aircraft gradually deviate 5 or 6 miles off-course, and when queried, they almost inevitably come back with "Well we're showing ourselves right on the centreline/"xxx" radial." GPS sure is phenomenal.
But generally speaking an aircraft that is truly navigating using NDBs or VORs looks like a drunken sailor zig-zagging down the sidewalk after leaving the pub, as compared to someone flying a GPS track.
I've had /S aircraft gradually deviate 5 or 6 miles off-course, and when queried, they almost inevitably come back with "Well we're showing ourselves right on the centreline/"xxx" radial." GPS sure is phenomenal.
Re: Hope NDB Error
Perspective: If VOR and ADF did not exist today, and
you attempted to have them certified for IFR ops,
you would get laughed out of Tower C.
As they say, if capital punishment was good enough
for my grandfather and father, it's good enough
for me!
you attempted to have them certified for IFR ops,
you would get laughed out of Tower C.
As they say, if capital punishment was good enough
for my grandfather and father, it's good enough
for me!

Re: Hope NDB Error
Automatic Direction Finderpilotbzh wrote:what's an ADF?![]()
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Re: Hope NDB Error
Do many pilots still use them for navigating?Automatic Direction Finder
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Hope NDB Error
I usually just use them as a cross reference to ensure Im where I think I am 

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Re: Hope NDB Error
SkyWolfe wrote:I usually just use them as a cross reference to ensure Im where I think I am
I usually just use them to listen to the hockey game!

son: Dad, when I grow up I want to be a pilot!
Dad: Son, i'm sorry, but you can't do both!
Dad: Son, i'm sorry, but you can't do both!
Re: Hope NDB Error
wait... are we talking about the AM radio receiver? i even have one that has a timer for, you know... timing things.
QUACK!
Re: Hope NDB Error
I shoot probably 4 or 5 NDB approaches a day.. using the GPS overlay of course..
Always amazed how far off center some of the beacons will put ya. But I still keep it on in case the gps decides to shit the bed
Always amazed how far off center some of the beacons will put ya. But I still keep it on in case the gps decides to shit the bed
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Re: Hope NDB Error
When it comes to accuracy on an approach I'll take the Radio Range over an ADF approach any day.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Hope NDB Error
aren't they normally used as aids such as GP Checks and step downs on IAP's ?. . wrote:Do many pilots still use them for navigating?Automatic Direction Finder
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Re: Hope NDB Error
I still prefer the cone of silence because it takes more skill to find it.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Hope NDB Error
It never ceases to amaze me how a simple observation and request for info attracts so many would-be TV gag writers.
On the other hand, it does give rise to a chuckle or two.
On the other hand, it does give rise to a chuckle or two.
If you don't know,ASK!
"Do or do not..there is no try"
"Do or do not..there is no try"
Re: Hope NDB Error
I tried this again last week, navigating B9 from HE to GABIN, at 9500', via the GPS and autopilot. MEA is 9000. This kept me bang on the track. While doing this I was watching my ADF tail swing back and forth from on track to about 30 degrees right. It was doing this quite quickly, sometime taking only a few seconds to move 30 degrees. This ADF works everywhere else so I am convinced there is serious mountain error in this area. And keep the wisecracks coming 

randall g =%^)> C-GTUM - 1974 Cardinal RG - CZBB
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Re: Hope NDB Error
My son is in the excavator business and I used to be an arms smuggler..we could get my son to dig some deep holes in those mountains and I'll get some nuclear weapons and we will bury them in those mountains and blow them to hell out of there...then you can fly that airway with your ADF and toss the GPS in the garbage.This ADF works everywhere else so I am convinced there is serious mountain error in this area. And keep the wisecracks coming
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Hope NDB Error
Why would you say that? Were you aware that the vast majority of GPS installations in aircraft today are "supplementary means"?Perspective: If VOR and ADF did not exist today, and
you attempted to have them certified for IFR ops,
you would get laughed out of Tower C.
Re: Hope NDB Error
The Hope NDB has a history of suspect reliability dating back over fifty years. The Hope NDB was cited as a possible factor in the TCA Northstar crash on Mount Slesse in 1956. The airliner was off course by several miles to the south, and commenced a pre-mature descent below the MOCA.
Re: Hope NDB Error
For LF airways/routes construction & design, the primary area for obstacle consideration is 4.34nm each side and parallel to the segment centreline. The secondary area is an additional 4.34 nm on top of the 4.34nm for primary. The system accuracy lines for primary are drawn 5 deg each side commencing at both facilities and for secondary it is 7.5 degrees . That is quite a bit of real estate to wander around in and still be accurate within the confines of the design criteria.
But as suggested, LF airways are 1950's steam driven technology...........................
But as suggested, LF airways are 1950's steam driven technology...........................
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Re: Hope NDB Error
My ADF wont spin the first digit, its stuck displaying 5 but is actually set to god knows what. I bet thats what happened to Amelia Earhart.
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
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Re: Hope NDB Error
Tracking outbound from Hope on the airway to YKA has never worked. In the pre GPS days....wait.... you young ones might want to cover your eyes now as we are about to talk scary grown up stuff
..... anyway after intially doing the Transport way of tracking half way by time and then switching over, I always ended up way off track so I ended up just switched right over to Kamloops as soon as I went by Hope. If you got a good pass over Hope and set up a heading with a bit of body english for the winds you very quickly got a good solid bearing to the TKA beacon. Ahh for the good old days.....may they never return
. I was just looking in my log book and near as I can figure Nov of 1994 was the last time I had to depend on the ADF alone without a GPS to assist. 



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Re: Hope NDB Error
I still long for riding the twilight zone of the range leg and as I get close to the transmitters narrowing it down to the steady hum and hitting the cone of silence...now that is aviating IFR in its purest form.
Anything else is just using a crutch.
Anything else is just using a crutch.

The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.