Impressions of BCIT and its graduates?

[BigBlue]

this post is probably going to bite me in the ass somehow but here goes,

since BCIT is so much about image,... what image do I get to carry with me as a graduate of said school? I've heard not so good things

what I have to say:

well I grad from the AME-M program at BCIT in less then 3 weeks and there have been good times and I've learned a lot but overall I'd say it's adequate but crappy. I'm not going to get too specific but...

you know that shiny new campus? the doors break when its windy and the roof leaks when it rains etc. the tiny "gym" is being used as a storage closet (while we pay athletic fees and officially have access to a gym in Burnaby, on the other side of Vancouver) , there are lots of inconsistencies in the course material (imposable projects , questionable exams, conflicting information, we even skipped a project due to a special tool that was missing and we couldn't replace due to "budget constraints", right before plasma TVs went up in the cafeteria) words like "airworthy" still seem so distant and intangible and yet I'm about to graduate!.

most of the instructors are OK and some are great but there are a couple of bad eggs, and EVERYTHING is POLITICS, I don't think most students feel that the school is for students at all. Both students and instructors have declared war on the security guards at various times. and the aerospace campus feels like it would be better off if it were independent of BCIT, less of that remote control feeling... its bad enough that we have to deal with what TC thinks should happen, then on top of that we have to deal with Burnaby.

I guess we get to work on a lot of neat aircraft and being in the flight path at YVR is nice.

it seems like I went into school with such a good impression and so much optimism and now we are leaving with a bad taste for the school if not aviation its self and from what I can tell thats the last thing anyone in the industry needs. I know of a couple of bright guys who would have been excelled AMEs but they left early on because they felt the school was a ripoff. one went on to become a millwright apprentice and now we are all jealous. (hey I guess its a good thing that only the guys who really love aviation stick around hmh?)

I feel that me and my classmates are not going to miss the school or be particularly proud that we ever went there, maybe glad we did because its the gateway to the careers we want, I'm probably being too harsh, how rare is it for a student to have some dislike for his school hm? and there are instructors there, especially the older guys that make it almost worthwhile (Ross Bailey for example) and that helicopter guy that everyone hated finally left for greener pastures.

so yeah thats my 2 cents. tell us your impression of BCIT. and its grads. also what about E and S guys? pilots? etc.

also I cant WAIT to see what the REAL WORLD is like anyone out there want to hire an enthusiastic (if not particularly well educated) apprentice who particularly wants to work on M1 GA stuff? I'm dying for some experience here!

on a side note: if you have like 300 years of experience, lots of good stories to tell and you are tired of turning wrenches please consider being an instructor before you retire the world needs you.

[FastFlyBy]

Harsh....

That's too bad. I had the opportunity to visit the old campus a number of years ago with a friend who was going through the course, and the new one just a couple of weeks ago again as a visitor. I was amazed at how shiny, new, and professional everything looked in the new one. The classrooms with the rows of engines and parts neatly lined up. I thought what an improvement it was over the old cramped hanger.

[BigBlue]

Harsh....

That's too bad. I had the opportunity to visit the old campus a number of years ago with a friend who was going through the course, and the new one just a couple of weeks ago again as a visitor. I was amazed at how shiny, new, and professional everything looked in the new one. The classrooms with the rows of engines and parts neatly lined up. I thought what an improvement it was over the old cramped hanger.

yeah its not all bad but its certinly not as good as it looks.

we were the first class to work on those engines (if you mean TCM recips) they were ment for the new campus but ended up at the old campus when we were still in level 2 (of 8 ) with rushed and extremely poor project sheets. one of my classmates took it upon himself to completely re write most of the projects for those engines, I dont think the sheets he submitted ever made it though. but I hope they've smoothed things out... for all the headache level 2 was still my favorite because we had bailey and because I love recip engines. of course and I'm sure the projects have improved. maybe its just that our class had bad luck an has run into the most teething problems with all the changes (we are down to 8 people, I think we started with 17)

they also looked real nice and clean and lined up (we used string to line them up lol) but they were sometimes a mess inside, its OK though that the engiens were a bit messed up because we got to catch a lot of snags.

[dashguy]

Well you hit the nail on the head with that one, I had the exact sentiment when I left BCIT. I got a chance to see the new campus when I was through YVR a couple months back and was impressed with the facility but I don't think it will be a better place to learn. I found a majority of the courses were full of fluff and B.S. but left out the important stuff.

Glad to see Ross is still around, too bad the guy they made C.I. is still there, and there is one other short stout little man who yells a lot that needs to be taken care of.

It has the potential to be a great school. I found that even though I thought I got ripped off as far as quality of education goes I don't think it has hindered me too much. I was lucky to start work in this industry with some very knowledeable people who were willing to pass that knowledge on, if it weren't for that I don't know where I'd be today, and I pity the guy who gets stuck working under some wiseass who looks down on his apprentice because he doesn't know everything, nobody knows everything and as an apprentice you don't know much.

If you want things to change write exactly what you posted here on your exit review form they give you, maybe if enough people complain they will change, maybe not but at least you felt like you did your part to make things better for the future grads.

[jsmetalbashers]

I had a similar experience with BCIT. I don't think there was anybody in my class that was satisfied with the course. We wrote letters to the lead instructor and the dean and I think they could have cared less. But if you really want to work on airplanes and your enthusiastic, you will do fine.

[emoutal]

I feel the same way as you and it's good to know that we're not the only class that feels this way. Image is the only thing that matters to the administration. Too bad that no matter how nice the new building is and how many plasma TVs they can cram into it, their reputation will go down the toilet once employers find out about it.

I've made my opinion known to the administration and they pretend to care and listen but they are not going to do anything about it. The only thing is that at least most of the instructors care enough and will try to give a good education to those students who are interested despite what the administration does. However, those that are only interested in passing (as opposed to learning) won't get too much out of it.

And yes, level 2 was crap. We were the class right after you and you're right, nothing was changed. To top that off we had an instructor that had no clue what was going on. He's a good guy, but hadn't worked on piston engines in like 30 or 40 years, and only radials. How can you expect someone to teach something they aren't comfortable with. He tried his best. Whoever was writing the tests (the QA department) was often directly contradicting our textbook and instead quoting a book that hasn't been in print in 40 years (yet the school still puts it on our required textbook list).

I think I'm getting something out of the school, but only because I want to.

[BigBlue]

And yes, level 2 was crap. We were the class right after you and you're right, nothing was changed. To top that off we had an instructor that had no clue what was going on. He's a good guy, but hadn't worked on piston engines in like 30 or 40 years, and only radials. How can you expect someone to teach something they aren't comfortable with. He tried his best. Whoever was writing the tests (the QA department) was often directly contradicting our textbook and instead quoting a book that hasn't been in print in 40 years (yet the school still puts it on our required textbook list).

this is such typical stuff!!

BCIT seems to have a lot of AUX instructors who end up teaching things they are not specialized in at all, I donut know how many times I've heard words like "I wish they would give me my own course then I wouldn't have to put up with being ill prepared all the time" or "the last time I did this was at PVI" ok you are not a bad person for not having experience on floats, or recips, but please.....

I had a similar experience with BCIT. I don't think there was anybody in my class that was satisfied with the course. We wrote letters to the lead instructor and the dean and I think they could have cared less.

again typical of my experience, there seems to be an attitude that only students who are failing because they are idiots ever complain and they do it for revenge, I even had one (ex RAF) instructor say pretty much exactly that.

of course there are some crummy students but the school certainly does absolutely nothing to inspire them to do better. Instead they just blame your lack of enthusiasm on your generation. Say that we don't retain information because of music videos or the internet or some crap like that. Meanwhile the information we get is not only diluted with a bunch of crap but downright conflicting! The smart students with high grades now are not the ones who follow instructions and do everything by the book but the ones who kiss ass and cheat behind the instructors back. If you point out that a question is wrong you just get told that some other student had no problem with it, and meanwhile the only place they got the information from was the previous class. Students remember the bogus crap with no reference to anything, pass it on to the next class to spite the instructors then when it comes time to take the exam or do the assignment the instructor can say “aha only 15% of you can get this one!” and they keep the question because they think its one of those hard questions that weeds out the weak. When all it really does is weed out the honest.... I tried to explain this to an instructor once but all it did was make him pay more attention to me during exams to see if I was cheating....

is this what the industry wants? I think not.

But if you really want to work on airplanes and your enthusiastic, you will do fine.

I certinly hope so.

[dashguy]

I'm waiting for someone to make a good comment about the school, for that I have been waiting a long time.

[twotter]

I'm waiting for someone to make a good comment about the school, for that I have been waiting a long time.

dashguy, you will be waiting a long time. Back when it was PVI it was a place of higher learning. It is now just a puppy factory. So many of the instructors are washed up yahoos who couldn't find a job in the real world. Then you add the politics and they will chase out anyone who tries to make things better. No, I've never gone there or worked there and yes I've hired many of the grads, it just makes me sick when I find out how little these people are learning about what they really need to know.

So what do these poor students get for their money? Not much in my opinion. I would highly reccomend that anyone wanting to get into Aircraft Maintenance go to Northern Lights or Sait or Stevenson. Stay away from BCIT until they change and get rid of some of the dead wood that run the place.

Just my opinion, but I'm one of the guys who hires apprentices.

[NeverBlue]

Man...do we ever have a lot of experts out there with absolutley NO EXPERIENCE in ANYTHING!!


BigBlue...your student fees go to the Student Union whom YOU elected, not BCIT...a process you'll learn about in the "real world" when you grow up.

Has anybody ever been to any other aviation training school?? I think not because if you did there would be no contest.
BCIT's fleet is the biggest of any maintenance training school in all of North America idiot!
Do you know how much an airplane costs??

First of all...does anybody know that BCIT's Aerospace programs are audited by Transport Canada?... that they are the governing body of the programs? TC tells the schools what requirements they are not meeting...and the schools have no choice but to comply or lose their approval.

Imagine...a student re-writing Practical Projects...KNOW IT ALL!!...no wonder it didn't get anywhere...like BigBlue he probably couldn't spell the word impossible.
Isn't it always the case...the students want to tell the teachers how and what they should learn. Every college program I've ever taken has been the same.

Does anyone know that all Post Secondary Aerospace training is BASIC TRAINING only!!...maybe you should look up the term "BASIC".

This industry is a love/hate industry. The problem with most students today is that they want the job with the best money and don't even care if they really like it. ...a millwright...hmmm...challenging.

Here's a little secret...the students who left BCIT Aerospace because they thought is was a rip off find a "better" job actually got kicked out of the school and had no choice...tears and all...

Nice comment jsmetalbashers...post a dig at BCIT and then say "but if you really want to work on airplanes and your (again misspelled) enthusiastic, you'll do fine"
Do you realize that you've just c-o-n-t-r-a-d-i-c-t-e-d yourself?
Why on earth would you take the course if you're not interested in airplanes...Duh...LOL

Dashguy...I don't think you understand what "Apprenticeship" means...it means that you need a "Knowledgeable" (notice the correct spelling) certified engineer to work with you, supervise you, teach you, inspect you and your work...FOR 2 AND A HALF YEARS!!

Twotter...original name...If you have an opinion on how what BCIT should teach then why don't you show up to the Industry Program Advisory Committee meetings and volunteer, have some input...because it seems you also don't have any clue about "Basic Training".

Emoutal...QA doesn't create the exams...cirriculum developers do...qualified ones...didn't you listen in class? What does QA do? I bet you don't even know...and if you've ever read more than one book you would know that textbook authors don't know everything just because they wrote it down and published it...and yes they could be contradicted at times.
You should get your friend who re-wrote the Level 2 practical project...LOL...to write a textbook...but you would need to learn english grammar though...oh wait...didn't you learn that in elementary school??...those damn teachers!!..it must be their fault.


Well...that's my 2 cents worth...I've been with two maintenance schools in Canada as well four maintenance organizations and have seen half of a dozen more schools throughout the world.

Me thinks you all talk out of your ass's with a lot of hot air.

[BITEUINTHEASS]

BigBlue sir/madam,
This is definately going to bite you in the ass. You haven't even graduated yet and already you consider yourself an expert in what you should or shouldn't know. Nice!
You definately don't speak for me though and yet you have taken it upon yourself to say that I have "declared war on the security guards". Who are you? I have no problem with them. I certainly didn't give you the right to speak for me. You have no clue what you are talking about. The last guy was right. You have no experience about anything and you expect everyone teaching you to know everything.

Tell me this...how long have you been spelling? Judging by the fact you're in college, maybe 15 years at least? And you still can't do it right. Idiot.

Kettle black?

[mustanger]

Atta boy NeverBlue!

You've done a damn fine job of cutting everyone down without listening much to what they're saying.

BigBlue didn't claim to be an expert, he was just voicing his feelings about the school and the educataion his hard earned money has gotten him. Last I checked, that was still kosher with the laws of this country... free speech right?

Further more, for all your expertise, ie knowing all about other schools in North America, BCIT fees and program format, not to mention your good spelling (I got a gold star in grade school for mine), you lack alot of tact. Right or wrong, were do you get off slagging everyone?

We all know WE elected the Student Union, but if you think the aerospace campus and it's students are well represented, think again. And I'm pretty sure that if Burnanby students had to pay fees for things they'd never use, such as our really expensive airplanes, there'd have been a revolt by now.

That student that re-wrote the practical project, that was at the instructors' behest. And the students BigBlue said left, because they thought BCIT was a rip off, left of their own accord. I knew these guys, and can tell you they were not tossd out. Did you know them? Who's the know it all after all?

But if anyone is going to judge me and all that hot air I'm talking out of my ass, you'd be my first pick. Your head seems to be so far up your ass, you're well qualified to judge.

[NeverBlue]

Very good Mustanger,
Although I don't recall ever judging YOU at all. Did the rest of the guys/gals pick you because you can spell better?
... Another one that hasn't got a clue...7 people left on their own accord eh?( I read Eric's letter as well)

I'm just trying to stand up for the industry that's employed me for over twenty years and to listen to people that haven't even experienced a job yet comment on what they think they need to know just blows me away.

"It's was crappy but I guess it was adequate", what the hell is that? How the hell does he know if he's been well educated or not...he's still in school.

Find someone who's been working for 5 years or more and then ask them if their school was enough given the time they had.
Show me someone who's been in more then one school and ask them which one was better.

Their arguments have no merit

There are more BCIT graduates working in BC Aviation then any other school period...I've hired many...some good, some not...but that's up to me to decide and it's not hard these days.
You see I realize how much they don't know when they get out of school
...I realize that 18 months is nothing when most of them don't know how an airplane even flies when they start
...I realize that they are considered adults when they start school and that they are responsible for they're own learning
...and I realize that their tuition only covers about 1/3 of the cost of their schooling and my bloody tax dollar for the last thirty-five years is covering the rest!

Who care's whether their proud or not that they went to BCIT...they don't even realize what they have....they just want...

...and if an instructor is asking a student to write a project for the class then that is a problem with the instructor not the school...

[BigBlue]

Man...do we ever have a lot of experts out there with absolutley NO EXPERIENCE in ANYTHING!!

of course not I am a student and thats why I'm asking what other people think (yeah I do go a little off into the deep end with my own opinions, being outspoken runs in my family for at least 3 generations)

BigBlue...your student fees go to the Student Union whom YOU elected, not BCIT...a process you'll learn about in the "real world" when you grow up.

the student union might not be BCIT proper but its still part of the picture and yes I'm not entirely sure where exactly all the fees go but I do know we get a bum deal compared to Burnaby campus. also the student union does what it can and I respect that...

Has anybody ever been to any other aviation training school?? I think not because if you did there would be no contest.
BCIT's fleet is the biggest of any maintenance training school in all of North America idiot!
Do you know how much an airplane costs??

no because otherwise we wouldn't be at BCIT... but I have taken an equivalent program for another field and though the school was relatively under funded compared to BCIT here was a lot less bullshit, FURTHERMORE I can compare BCIT to BCIT its self because the program is broken up and some parts are more refined then others so its obvious when the quality varies from good to bad (yes I love aviation so much that when I found out you had to take a TC approved course to be an AME I went back to school! Maybe I should have done correspondence but then BCIT had such a good image.....)

I have a pretty good idea what most of BCIT's aircraft would cost in real life, I have no clue what the school paid for them but I'm sure it was still quite a lot, I know how much that campus costs, and I also know that the tool we needed to do the projects that were pencil whipped to please the auditors is less expensive then the plasma TVs in the cafeteria. I think the high cost is part of the problem, to get that kind of money the school needs to keep up a certain image and please a lot of people, and they forget about the students. also how does my school's big fleet make me an idiot? just because BCIT has the biggest penis does not make it the best school.

First of all...does anybody know that BCIT's Aerospace programs are audited by Transport Canada?... that they are the governing body of the programs? TC tells the schools what requirements they are not meeting...and the schools have no choice but to comply or lose their approval.

yes I did mention TC's expectations and I'm glad they set standards. but standards only mean so much. I've seen projects pencil whipped so that they would go through the audit even though we did not do them because we did not have the proper tools due to a budget freeze (read the part about plasma TVs) what I meant to say was that on top of TC's expectations BCIT has its own way of doing things that have nothing to do with TC or aviation and it complicates the issue.

Imagine...a student re-writing Practical Projects...KNOW IT ALL!!...no wonder it didn't get anywhere...like BigBlue he probably couldn't spell the word impossible.
Isn't it always the case...the students want to tell the teachers how and what they should learn. Every college program I've ever taken has been the same.

he did a very fine job and collaborated with the instructor because unlike the person who wrote the original projects he actually touched the engines. this has nothing to do with students telling the teacher what to do at all and I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. the student who re wrote the sheets did so under the direction of our instructor and really all he did was make new sheets that did not include what the instructor had told us to N/A and a few other changes (I call it a complete rewrite there were PAGES OF N/A in level 2)

Does anyone know that all Post Secondary Aerospace training is BASIC TRAINING only!!...maybe you should look up the term "BASIC".

your mom.
actually from what i've heard and this is from more then one instructor is that employers find students dont know the basics at all. I am not asking them to tell us how to overhaul a trent engine, infarct the SCOPE of the program is not bad at all, if anything its too broad, I just wish hey would be consistent in what the DO teach us.

This industry is a love/hate industry. The problem with most students today is that they want the job with the best money and don't even care if they really like it. ...a millwright...hmmm...challenging.

if that were true in my case I'd be a rig pig.

Here's a little secret...the students who left BCIT Aerospace because they thought is was a rip off find a "better" job actually got kicked out of the school and had no choice...tears and all...

actually not only did the instructor give him a "we need guys like you" speech but he was still on the class list in the next level and since we knew his student number we all saw his marks, they were fine.

Nice comment jsmetalbashers...post a dig at BCIT and then say "but if you really want to work on airplanes and your (again misspelled) enthusiastic, you'll do fine"
Do you realize that you've just c-o-n-t-r-a-d-i-c-t-e-d yourself?
Why on earth would you take the course if you're not interested in airplanes...Duh...LOL

aviation starts with A and some people are too lazy to go through the whole alphabet when choosing a career (I know people like this who are passing with decent marks and will probably make OK AMEs some day if they stick with it or maybe the interest will sink in?) and then their parents are paying for the program (nothing wrong with that my parents are still helping me) and they don't expect you to fail or drop out so you carry on, finish the program and look for a cushy job in Vancouver. Besides the way BCIT markets the program you'd think it was a great choice. and its not like the course is too hard or something the real concern is who is going to hire us after that? (some bits are tough but others are waaaaaay too easy (GRASBY IF YOU ARE READING THIS I AM TALKING ABOUT LEVEL SEVEN WHAT A JOKE)

Emoutal...QA doesn't create the exams...cirriculum developers do...qualified ones...didn't you listen in class? What does QA do? I bet you don't even know...and if you've ever read more than one book you would know that textbook authors don't know everything just because they wrote it down and published it...and yes they could be contradicted at times.

well I know the instructors don't want be be embarrassed by bogus exams so it does not make sense that they are responsible for them, THEY blame QA when ever a question comes up that has problems with it. apparently the process for changing exams involves QA people going over it to make sure it still complies with whatever requirements. Sometimes they even warn us ahead of time or just tell us what answer to put down. And thats nice. Really old exams are not usually a problem because they've been fixed but some of the newer ones are, they seem to take a long time to get fixed because the class before and after me will have the same problem. Currently though I cant complain much about the level 8 exams. And yes I know all about textbooks.. thats why its good to have an instructor who knows what hes talking about. (and really most do) when you get a combination of an instructor who is unfamiliar with the material and a bogus exam sometimes they go with whatever the exam says even though we were were taught something completely different and that is a problem. You cant blame the 30 years on heavy jets guy if one day they tell him he's teaching floats but its a real pain in the ass. and stuff like that happened to my class far too often.

since this is now a pissing err I mean spelling contest: the correct spelling is “curriculum”. Also “absolutely”

"It's was crappy but I guess it was adequate", what the hell is that? How the hell does he know if he's been well educated or not...he's still in school.

I just said it was a guess, I can only hope 5 years from now I will look back and say that it wasnt so bad after all. and any idiot can see when you are being taught conflicting information or pencil whipping a project that TC says you should do.


also to "BITEUINTHEASS" (you a student or an instructor?) I WAS a bit out of line on the security thing, I was referring to an incident where one instructor said something that I wont repeat (not profanity just don't want to get too specific) probably because he was locked out of something and to another where an unknown student used a "projectile" "weapon" (quote: BCIT propaganda leaflet) against a security guard ( the weapon was a kiwi )

I don't expect everyone teaching me to know everything but it would be nice if they knew what was on the exam.

the correct spelling is also "definitely", and this is an Internet forum not an essay contest. but I suppose pedantry is actually a good thing for an AME.

its good to see someone with a better opinion of the school even if they cant say anything positive.
at least neverblue pointed out that we have some nice aircraft to work on.

you know I really expected someone to say they had a good experience as a student at this school.
will someone stand up for BCIT or just talk about how bad I am for expressing my opinion and feelings without without paying much attention to spelling and grammar?

to anyone who thinks this is just random BCIT bashing from a disgruntled student you are either missing the point a little bit or I havent made myself clear. I AM pissed off and I know its going to sound like backpedaling but so be it. I don't really mean to say its a COMPLETE waste of time I just feel there is huge room for improvement and there MIGHT be better options, it saddens me when I hear people talk about how much better PVI was or other schools are like SAIT or northern lights (not just twotter btw). I wouldn't go so far as to call BCIT a “puppy farm” (thats too insulting to me as a student) but its pretty hard to believe that it represents what all aviation schools are like... Around level 6 (helicopters, not too bad a level BTW despite what I was told throughout all the previous levels) I lazily searched a couple of Internet forums and I found MUCH more bad then good and now that I'm graduating I am a bit worried about what people think. Now obviously I've done nothing to promote my own image as a BCIT student but I wanted to hear some more opinions.

also I might not be an EXPERT in the field at all but I do know when I've learned something and when I have not learned anything, its hard to comment on the quality of what I've learned but I can comment on the quality of how well its being taught.

Kettle Blue!

[NeverBlue]

Thank you BigBlue for your honest words.

Finally someone who can call me on my spelling...but seriously "imposable???"
Alright I admit...I wrote most of it with a dictionary in my lap BUT AT LEAST I WAS LOOKING THEM UP! Isn't that what you learn in AME basic Training "Look it up!"

...ok so speaking out runs in your family...but speak out to someone who can make a difference...with your program...M program...one of many programs at BCIT Aerospace...don't bash it all...and everyone...people make their living there.

The student union handles the students activities and again, bashing BCIT Aerospace because you don't have an excersise room is not fair.

I truly don't believe that you would be anywhere else in Canada than BCIT if you had a choice but that's just from my experience.
You can't compare other programs because they don't fall under the restrictions of TC...and believe me...there are many restrictions...again, which you only have a very slight glimpse of...wait until you've dealt with TC for a couple of years or so...

BCIT can't afford any of the aircraft it has at fair market value I'm sure. They rely on donations...from industry...that wouldn't donate anything if they thought it was all for not...
Do you realize how many times your class size would have to take the course to pay for that 737 in the hanger? Do you think Westjet would donate it to BCIT if they thought BCIT was a crappy program. This comes from hard working people at BCIT and Westjet that are working for you the student to try and make it a better program.

I'm sure when you get out there you'll understand a little more how things work but... do you think that any business that is regulated to some extent by the government is going to do any more then is required by the regulations just out of the goodness of their heart? Enough said.

I do understand your frustrations with regards to the tooling though. If you could only see how much aviation everything costs apposed to civilian everything you would understand that one students entire tuition is required to replace that lost, stolen or broken tool.

In no training institution have I ever seen an instructor get a student to write a project for which they will be graded on. I hope you understand that if this is true you have put your "favourite instructor" in a very bad position. If any BCIT employees read this forum he/she could be called out for it. Do you understand that BCIT may be their family source of income? The way bills get paid like the mortgage?

Your right about that employers don't think the students know the basics. It's because some of the employers don't even know what the basics are. I had one collegue complain that "these graduates can't be trusted to go out on their own on a job" Again...I digress..."apprenticeship". That's where you learn everything. That's where I learned 99.9% of it...and over 2 decades later I'm still learning.

If it is true that you're there for the love of aviation...you'll have no problem...I know it's scary in the beginning because you don't have a job yet...you just have to work hard and not wait for anything.

As for the guy that left for another job...I really can't open my big mouth on that one any further because I don't know...but I do know that a lot of students get kicked out and very few withdraw...probably because they got kicked out first...and if he left for something better...then how is that bad...something he likes.

Aviation starts with "A"...nice...your right and TRUST ME...if you've got the right "A" you can do whatever you want in this industry...but you can't do anything without "Basic Training"...whether you like it or not.

Curriculum...bah...I always get that one wrong...damn it...

Let me just say...if a guy has spent 30 years in the industry...he has something to offer...try and find that in the course...I'm sure he didn't sit on his ass the whole 30 years...
Passing isn't that hard and you'll never convince me that it is...I've done it...learn how to get out of it what you can...I've never had an instructor in my life that has not made some sort of "positive" impression on me...whatever it was...something.
You have to learn how to use the resources you have(troubleshooting rule).

You must be female...cause no self respecting man would compare airplanes and penis envy... for that matter no self respecting man would call it a Penis when he's on the offensive either...

I just want to close by saying that... no, you don't know what you've learned and what you haven't learned. That was one of my biggest mistakes when I left school. I was rudely awakened...you will be too...

NeverBlue

[jsmetalbashers]

Wow, someone can't take a little whining and snivelling from some proud BCIT students. I'm a grad actually, in 96 and I do know what I'm talking about and there are not many grads spreading the word about your wonderful school. There are many with the same complaints as I have and we aren't (sorry that may not be the proper way to spell that duh) making this stuff up. Northern Lights seems to be putting out better prepared newbies... sorry. Most of the guys in my class didn't know what they wanted to do when they took the course, but the guys that did, got jobs and made a go of it (about 5 of the 12). I know how much those airplanes cost, you didn't pay market value for the 737 did you? that must have cost a fortune lol. Have a good day blue.

[BITEUINTHEASS]

Metal Basher sir/madam,
Unbelievable. You've been in the industry for 12 years and you still don't realize that without your basic training you would not be there. If it was so bad how did you get where you are today ( that is if you are in the industry)?

I understand what neverblue feels. You don't call me and my friends yahoos and expect nothing back.

Someone had to say something...

[BITEUINTHEASS]

I don't expect everyone teaching me to know everything but it would be nice if they knew what was on the exam.

BigBlue sir/madam, I guess madam,
In the "real world" one has to solve problems based on what they have. One does not have the luxury of being told in advance of the problems that will arise.
There was a time when all AME's had to pass goverment exams and there were no teachers to tell you what was on the exams so you could pass it.

Unbelievable!

[427wedge]

Gotta throw my $.02 in. I went to PVI/BCIT many moons ago. Started in PVI graduated from BCIT. The course was okay in retospect. Most of the instructors were decent but like all quarters of life there are those that are unemployable anywhere else. That being said, could it have been better? Yes, but it got me to my first job where I realised that I really didn't know shit. Good engineers are good engineers. I've had apprentices that I turned loose after 6 months. They did good work and more importantly identified when they fucked up.
I've also worked with 20 year engineers that I wouldn't let change the spark plug in my lawn mower.

Neverblue, you make good points but you come across as an asshole. Also if you are going to be the spelling/punctuation/grammar police you should at least know that an expression like "You are correct" that the contraction of "You are" is "You're" not "your" as you have repeatedly done.

You're welcome!!

[openendwrench]

Back in the late 80's I did the 12 month program at Centennial College. I thought is was great.
If i recall , about 45-50 started the course and after everything was said and done about 20 finished. We all worked hard to finish.

The best thing about it,.....it gave me a possible in for whatever aviation job was available. That's it. From then on you had to prove yourself. Works the shifts, get the jobs done, study and pass the exams, get the license and still prove yourself.
Nothing is, and should be handed to you on a plate. With 20+ plus years in this industry I have been thru slow downs, recessions, budget cut backs and still managed to survive.
And, keep in mind, booms can kill you also.

I'm certain there are BCIT students and grads who have the the same approach and will be a benefit to this industry.

I drive by ther new spot everytime I'm in YVR. The B737 sure beats the crap I learned on.

[Helicopters]

Here are my 2 cent's worth. You might not see it the way I do. I would ask however that you give me the benefit of the doubt, if only because I have so many years in the business.
I graduated from BCIT(PVI back then) a long time ago, and I've been in aviation obviously longer than the age of some of you out there. I'm not that far from retirement assuming I can find a job as a greeter at Wal-Mart to keep paying my bills.
If I could give anyone a word of advice now, it would be to choose something else while you can. Get into automotive repairs, or heavy duty mechanics, anything but this pathetic business we're in now. We all wanted in because we loved aviation, but as a result we (AME's) support countless loosers that mother nature was not allowed to deal with from the start. We support them because they either failed as AME's or just thought they were better than us, but they can't run any operations out there without us doing the dirty work we enjoy so much.
Let's get one thing clear here: I am not associated with BCIT in any way shape or form.
I graduated with honours at BCIT even if that DOES NOT mean anything in this business, because no one cares how you got there, as long as they can take advantage of you if there is one iota of mechanical aptitude in your bones.
In retrospect BCIT gave me a great introduction to aviation but only from a mechanical point of view. The instructors were no bullsh**t kinds of people as well. It was simple then, you shaped up or you shipped out. You learned to love the technology and you enjoyed the classes, free for the most part of dim witted loosers with more money than brains, or just plain stupid. You made it work and you succeeded.
It isn't like that anymore, but it isn't necessarily the fault of the instructors. Sure, some don't belong in a teaching environment but there are cons everywhere you look nowadays, especially in aviation, more so in management obviously.
While we touched on just a bit of everything at BCIT, those of us that weren't weeded out from the start graduated and got jobs. Some it turns out were smarter and got into other trades. With things having changed so much now, anyone entertaining the idea of even getting into aircraft maintenance should do the same thing.
Your instructors for the most part are restrained by idiotic rules and regulations which do not permit them to control the student population and kick some ass when required. They have to deal with imbeciles "upstairs" who tell them what to say and how to act in front of you. If they don't they could loose their job over the smallest of things simply because this is how ridiculous it has become. They can't tell you too much about what the real world is like. Someone might be frightened enough to file a complaint after all.
Granted, some of the instructors aren't as sharp as they once were, but that happens to anyone who stays away from active work. It does come back if the teacher leaves.
The reality is that BCIT isn't the only training school in the West and it needs the revenue badly, so it is more than willing to accept anyone, even if that student doesn't even know what a wrench is, and even if it means making some retarted student (I can say that, but a teacher can't) go though the whole program knowing that NO ONE in the business will ever consider him or her as a potential employee. It's money in their pocket afterall. (We won't talk about Transport Canada here, they are inept without getting help from BCIT's management because they too are run by uninformed people out of touch with reality)
With these not so funny regulations, it is very difficult to get rid of inept students even though it should be a law. But everybody knows that laws in Canada are meant to look after the criminals more than the victims. Inept students can drag a whole class down and this business is all about safety, no one should ever forget this. Inept students are bad for morale, and bad news for aviation. (I am convinced, based on years of observation, that inept students who miraculously end up in aviation go on to make fine inept corporate management material, the good ones get out of it.)
These are sad facts in the disfunctional society we live in. The problem of course is much worse than this.
Talk to people in places like ACRO, Helipro, Heli-One, MTU, and CHL in Edmonton and get a feel about how happy people are in there. The reason I suggest these places is because you're chances of being hired are better fresh out of school there than anywhere else, and each of them will quickly make you think twice about your career choice before it's too late.
In the helicopter world Alpine Helicopters is the exception to all this, they run a great ship.
So, if you think BCIT is bad, wait until you get into the real world of aviation. If you have any smarts at all, you will end up thinking those instructors were indeed geniuses after you hear about the seriously challenged individuals who run the bigger aviation companies around the lower mainland. These people know less than nothing about aviation, nor do they care, but they sure like their fat pay cheques. Of course, if you are an investor you too will loose your shirt with them eventually.
By the time share values have tanked and people have left like rats on a sinking ship, these fine inept corporate management material types will have collected huge severance packages and moved on to screw somebody else's life.
As an example, ACRO's former head bean counter stole millions of dollars that were NEVER recovered.
Ask yourself who destroyed Canadian Airlines, and finished off Air Canada in Vancouver. Similar people are now busy trying to do the same thing in other places. Some will be doing it by stealing like ACRO's former bean counter, or by buying and trading in bogus aircraft parts while others do nothing about it.
Once again, just my two cent's worth. I am not saying it's better in other trades, but if you have real standards, you might not be as sick of seeing what's happening to this business as I am.
And it isn't getting any better.

[longjon]

Heli, what class no. were you? Less than class no. 40?

[twotter]

Neverblue, a little advice for you. If you want to sway peoples opinions, don't insult them right away and don't make a complete jackass of yourself with your first post!

While I have never attended any of the schools I mentioned, I have visited the facilities and "checked them out". They certainly seem a lot more in touch with what is happening in the real world than BCIT. They also don't have the same problem with "Deadwood". I remember one resume I was given many years ago where the newbie had attached a letter of recommendation from an instructor who is still there. This letter was a joke, it was the instructor trumpeting himself while hardly mentioning the student. Many times over the years I wish I'd kept it.

As part of our interview process now, we require newbies to do a practical. You would be amazed at some of the stuff I've seen on that! These kids come out of school and can't even put in a cotter pin properly. You can't blame that on the student, that is the instructors fault, how do they pass without having this very basic ability?

I will continue to suggest people go to other schools until BCIT gets their act together. This will require a complete overhaul starting at the top.

BTW, your Industry Program Advisory Committee don't make their meeting very well known. You probably need to be a member of PAMEA to be notified or something equally rediculous.

[chowda]

hey twotter, did you hear about the apprentice our neighbours just canned? was checking tire pressure by touching the sidewall with the tire gauge

Apparently had no clue how to do it. Guess where he got his training....

[twotter]

And why doesn't that surprise me..