no

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Doc
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no

Post by Doc »

Small word. "no". Some pilots don't seem to know the meaning of "no". Neither do some operators. Keystone?
That's all it takes. "no"
Women use it all the time. "no"
We'd really like you to overfly your fuel stop. "no"
If you let down another hundred feet, I'm pretty sure we'll get in. "no"
C'mon, it's just a couple of hundred extra pounds. "no"
I think we should all sit down and open an Oxford. Or a Webster's. Because we are really just not getting the meaning of.... "no"
We want you to go without the autopilot. "no"
It's not sinking in. Is it? "no"

End of rant.
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PopnChipper
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Re: no

Post by PopnChipper »

will you pay 10,000 for a promotion? "no"
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Re: no

Post by Liquid Charlie »

I know what ur saying :mrgreen: -- read your pm's lately ???
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Re: no

Post by Tubthumper »

Will you just go and live in YYZ for 36K/yr......'no'.
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Phileas Fogg
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Re: no

Post by Phileas Fogg »

Do you like beer? ....yes
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Re: no

Post by . ._ »

I'm considering never working as a Commercial pilot and just enjoying flying around on nice days when I want to. Every flight will be fun- with only my rustiness to kill me.

How's that for ya Doc?

-istp :smt017
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Four1oh
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Re: no

Post by Four1oh »

istp wrote:I'm considering never working as a Commercial pilot and just enjoying flying around on nice days when I want to. Every flight will be fun- with only my rustiness to kill me.

How's that for ya Doc?

-istp :smt017
and istp wins the award for totally-missing-the-point day!
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Re: no

Post by mrsbitchy »

Women use it all the time. "no"

Doc, please say it's not true :shock: You are not trying hard enough, no means maybe :roll:
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trey kule
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Re: no

Post by trey kule »

Another good thread Doc. Wonder how many will actually understand what you are trying to say.

And I am a little confused about "no" meaning "maybe". I thought it meant "buy me another drink"
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SAR_YQQ
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Re: no

Post by SAR_YQQ »

Excellent post Doc.

I only wish more aviators would use that simple two letter word more often.
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Rubberbiscuit
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Re: no

Post by Rubberbiscuit »

SAR_YQQ wrote:Excellent post Doc.

I only wish more aviators would use that simple two letter word more often.
Agreed!! Pilots need to draw the line in the sand at some point. There is "I am cancelling todays $50k charter cause one of my postlight bulbs is burnt out and if I take 4 hour or bigger delay I will be forced to fly illegally at night!".... then there is "I have to cycle my gear lever 6 times to get the gear to extend!" A littler bit of common sense will get you a long way.
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Re: no

Post by Love Me Sexy »

There is "I am cancelling todays $50k charter cause one of my postlight bulbs is burnt out and if I take 4 hour or bigger delay I will be forced to fly illegally at night!"....
Actually funny thing is that this has happened twice at my company... with the same pilot. Only it wasn't the nav/position lights, it was a strobe! Needless to say management wasn't happy and he's currently looking for work. :rolleyes:
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Doc
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Re: no

Post by Doc »

As long as he did have the legal lights required for night flight, the company is correct in being upset. There is a time when saying "no" is not in the best interest of all involved.

BTW, post lights have nothing to do with nav/position lights...but you did know that.
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Re: no

Post by Love Me Sexy »

Oh I know they're not the same as inst. post lights... :mrgreen: I just meant that it was similar to canceling a flight that was absolutely flyable.
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Re: no

Post by Wilbur »

A lot of the time, probably most, the pilot doesn't have to "draw the line in the sand." CAR's draw the line, the pilot only needs say no when someone wants him to step over.
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Re: no

Post by Hoov »

Pilots hate to say no

But women love to say "no" to me. I guess we could all learn from them.
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Re: no

Post by fougapilot »

Wilbur wrote:A lot of the time, probably most, the pilot doesn't have to "draw the line in the sand." CAR's draw the line, the pilot only needs say no when someone wants him to step over.
Wilbur,

I agree with you 100%.

The problem is that there seems to be a trend in pilots in this country. They don't know the CARs! How often do you see questions asked on this forum about very basic thing that even my "I couldn't care less about aviation" wife could find in the CARs. It is very difficult for a pilot to enforce the "no" that the CARs impose upon him/her when he/she can't find the reference in the book! It becomes easy to roll over and play dead...

Personally, I think the CARs are well written (compare to the old ANOs) in the sense that they remove a lot of "gray" areas as to what is :smt023 versus what is not.

I know Hedley will not like me saying this but; THE CARs ARE YOUR FRIENDS!!!!! Know them!!! They WILL save your life one day.

My hardest "No" was in a Challenger 601. I was sitting in London UK, talking to the "secretary" (she had other unspeakable duties...) of a Russian "Businessman" who was on the phone with his wife. I kept telling them I could go to Moscow because we had no alternate airport (when the fog rolls in over Europe, it rolls in everywhere...). But the Russian was on the phone with his wife who was telling him the weather was good in Moscow and he insisted I go. The decision not to go was easy, the CARs made it for me. The spine to hold my own in front of the Russian "businessman", his "secretary" and his Bodyguard was a complete story. However, we stayed in London. Truth be told, at our Moscow ETA, the fog had rolled in (as per the TAF) and the weather was woxof...

My 2 cents,

F
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pontius
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Re: no

Post by pontius »

Fouga Pilot said "(when the fog rolls in over Europe, it rolls in everywhere...)."


No, it doesn`t.
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Re: no

Post by husky »

If you say "no", will somebody else take your job and say "yes"? YES!

We have a long way to go before that ever changes...
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Re: no

Post by Over the Horn »

husky wrote:If you say "no", will somebody else take your job and say "yes"? YES!

We have a long way to go before that ever changes...
If you lose your job by saying NO then was it such a great job to begin with?

If the Pilot that says YES instead of NO fucks up and is sentenced to 2years in jail how many more will be ready to say YES all the time?

Saying No will start with one pilot at a time, being a pilot is not getting paid to fly, but getting paid to "Know When Not to Fly"
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Re: no

Post by trey kule »

If you say "no", will somebody else take your job and say "yes"? YES!
It does not matter, what somebody else does..You do the right thing.
Is that so really hard to understand these days? Or is "somebody else" a good excuse to set aside your ethics?
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Widow
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Re: no

Post by Widow »

It doesn't excuse the pilot for saying "yes" when he should have said "no".

But it does shed light on the fact that an environment in which someone else WOULD have said "yes", if he had said "no", DOES exist, and is just as inexcusable.
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Doc
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Re: no

Post by Doc »

Aw yes Widow, but you must be the pilot with the guts to say "no". You have "no" control over the other guy. You never will.
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Re: no

Post by Widow »

Isn't part of the CP's job to ensure the pilot knows when to say "no"? Isn't part of the OP's job to ensure everyone under the operation does the job safely? Isn't part of the regulators job to ensure that everyone has the tools to do their job safely?
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Re: no

Post by Doc »

Widow, there you go leaning on everybody else. The pilot must know when to say "no". I don't know why this is so difficult. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to know when to say "no". You have no idea what the CP's agenda is. There's no sense in pussy footing around, blaming the "regulator"....he is NOT there to babysit the pilot. He is not standing there checking out the weather. He's not there loading the airplane. He's not there checking the fuel load. In fact, the "regulator" has his head so far up his own ass, he's the very last person I'd want to have any say over when, where, and why I say "no".

Widow, the "regulator" has been regulating the same way for so many years, he's forgotten which side his bread is buttered on. You can do all the jumping up and down you want, you'll never change anything. You won't live long enough! And while you're waiting for help from the "regulator" many more pilots are going to have many more accidents, simply because they will not say "no".
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