Tail plane Icing Video

[lilfssister]

Yes, it's on page 3 or 4 of the flight 3407 thread, but well worth its own thread since people may miss it there.

[imfsub12]

well sense we are on icing there is a NASA ground course on icing..

A Pilot's Guide to In-Flight Icing

http://www.myaviationschool.com/free-aviation-products

[Morav]

A missed approach with junk out, low altitude in heavy icing could further accelerate the onset of a tail plane stall. I wonder if it would be wise to retract the flaps before adding max climb power to get out of it???? Keeping in mind that you do have enough air speed and power to maintain level flight while you do this maneuver...

A missed approach seems have some of the ingredients to onset a tail plane stall. I.e. Adding power and pitching the nose up.


Now that I think of it, it would probably be a better idea to not be flying, and holding an MDA past the MAPW is a bad idea as well.

[MUSKEG]

Pitching the nose up will lessen the chance of a tail plane stall.

[magyar]

Since the pilot cannot see the horizontal stabilaizer ice builup from the cockpit, would it not be a good idea to put some kind of thin ice detection strip on the leading edge of the H-stab that could give an indication and readout in the cockpit?
something along the line of mabe a weight build-up(ice has weight) detector strip or an irregular airflow indicator that deviates from smooth or normal flow(kind of like the string in the NASA video).


what do you guys think?

[black hole]

Maybe a vidio camera would be handy????


BH

[magyar]

video camera would be suceptable to condensation buildup/lens fog up, especially in clouds and humidity....

[Morav]

Pitching the nose up will lessen the chance of a tail plane stall.

Wouldn't pitching the nose up require more lift from the tail plane, thus there is a more of a likely hood of it stalling, because of it's increased angle of attack??

I do, however, understand that holding the control column aft and reducing power is the recovery after a tail plane stall.

[Lurch]

Pitching the nose up will lessen the chance of a tail plane stall.

Wouldn't pitching the nose up require more lift from the tail plane, thus there is a more of a likely hood of it stalling, because of it's increased angle of attack??

I do, however, understand that holding the control column aft and reducing power is the recovery after a tail plane stall.

The Tail Plane is "upside Down" compared to the wing, it's lifting forces are downward

[Morav]

The Tail Plane is "upside Down" compared to the wing, it's lifting forces are downward

Yes, I understand that. When pitching the nose up isn't the tail plane forcing its self downward...

[_dwj_]

Would it not be better to just not use flaps if there is any significant ice buildup?

[Dragshute]

Some aircraft don't require any form of anti-ice on the tail, like the Dassault Falcon 20. The design and angle of the tail make it unlikely it will pick up any significant amount of ice. The CRJ doesn't have tail A/I either. They demonstrated that it would fly with a full load of ice on the tail. I believe the 737 = no tail anti-ice either... not sure of other aircraft... as far as training,the tail stall was not part or the curriculum in the sim. Although next time I would certainly like to see it demonstrated, somewhere safe like in the sim.

[LAX]

This is a great video. Thanks for posting.

[ftp]

A video Camera to view the tail would definitely have an almost permanent MEL.

I liked the video, I found the closing summary pretty good.

[KAG]

Great video, should be part of annual winter ops training.

[. ._]

I saw that video when I was at Sault College, but seeing it again jogged my memory.

Good post, EngineGuy! Could be scary stuff in real life.

Let's fly safely out there, folks!

-istp

[MUSKEG]

Stall is induced when excessive angle of attack causes lift seperation. On a wing that usually happens in a nose high attitude. On a tail plane that happens in a nose low attitude. If you have Dehaviland experience introducing flaps pushes the nose down and the tail up, increasing the angle of attack on the tail. It happens on any downforce tail but the T/0 is a prime example. Flaps also disturb the air flow over the tail and that is when you are most susseptable to tail stall.

[Highflyinpilot]

Thanks for the xplanation muskeg, I was kind of understanding what morav was saying and was trying to run it through my head. But with the explanation you just gave it is all clear now, I can can see how the AOA is grrater on the tail plane when nosing down.

I'll try and explain it in my words(maybe), and please correct me if im wrong, but in a way the the top of the horizontal stab is actually like the bottom of th wing, when you nose over the top part of the horizontal stab(which is like the bottom of the wing) is exposed to more direct windflow(i guess you could say) hence the greater AOA.


Please correct me if im wrong.