FNT Temporary suspension?

[North Shore]

Just listening to NCI (I know...) this morning and caught the middle and end of a news report stating that FNT out of CYGM has been shut down by Transport effective July 5(?) due to paperwork issues. Sounded like a temporary suspension, according to the radio: fix the paperwork, get the OC back. Other complications, though (according to the radio), are a lack of TCAS, and so they might be gone for longer yet...
(The TCAS issue begs a question about the proactiveness of management and maintenance - IIRC the TCAS issue has been coming down the pipe for a while..)

[Widow]

Winnipeg Free Press - PRINT EDITION

First Nations Transportation banned from flying
20 people laid off while airline fights suspension
By: Lindsey Wiebe

9/07/2009 1:00 AM

A Gimli-based airline has been grounded and more than 20 employees laid off after Transport Canada suspended the company's air operator certificate last week.

First Nations Transportation serves eight remote communities on the east side of Lake Winnipeg, including St. Theresa Point and Garden Hill First Nations, which are also major shareholders. The freight company runs an estimated 10 flights per week to deliver 68,000 kilograms of supplies.

General manager Fred Petrie said Transport Canada suspended the aircraft operator certificate July 2 over alleged "deficiencies in our documentation." Petrie said he expects to have those issues cleared up by next week. But he said First Nations Transportation will be grounded for the summer over a new government requirement that planes be equipped with "collision avoidance systems," a type of safety equipment. The requirement was announced in 2007 and took effect July 1, Transport Canada said. Petrie said he initially thought his older planes weren't included, but later learned otherwise. A request for more time was denied, and it will take until August to get the new equipment.

"We're working diligently to meet Transport Canada's requirements," Petrie said. "We're working very hard to save the company at all."

Transport Canada spokeswoman Andrea Rudniski said the department suspended First Nations Transportation's certificate after a recent inspection and the company's "history of non-compliance." She said an inspection in January found "deficiencies" in the company's operational control system, which makes sure a company follows day-to-day safety requirements in areas such as training and dispatching.

First Nations Transportation addressed those issues and was allowed to fly again, she said, but an inspection in June found deficiencies in the same area, as well as in its quality-assurance program.

"The safety deficiencies in both systems were quite significant, which resulted in our suspension," she said.

Rudniski said she couldn't discuss specifics of the suspension since the company can appeal it.

She said hypothetical deficiencies could include failing to keep records of training or aircraft maintenance.

Petrie said his planes, a 1940s Curtiss C-46 Commando and a trio of DC-3s, might be older, but are still safe. They're the only aircraft that can handle the short gravel runways in remote communities, he said. The planes are worth $250,000 each, but he said the new equipment will cost upwards of $100,000 per plane.

Even if the company comes up with a plan to tackle the problems that led to the suspension, the planes won't be able to fly again without the new safety equipment or submitting a new request for an exemption, Rudniski said.

An earlier request was rejected because it didn't meet the criteria, including an outline of how the company would mitigate safety risks, she said.

First Nations Transportation does most of its business with the North West Company, which owns the Northern Stores that sell groceries in some northern communities. A spokesman said the stores are using another carrier and it's business as usual.

Petrie said his company has appealed the January suspension, and is awaiting information from Transport Canada requested in February.

"It's all been very high-handed and unreasonable," said Petrie, who thinks cash penalties are tough enough. "There are other ways to do things without putting people out of business."

Petrie said he has hired consultants to examine the company's regulatory compliance. The company might take legal action against the transportation department, depending on the findings.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... 47287.html

[Cat Driver]

First Nations Transportation addressed those issues and was allowed to fly again, she said, but an inspection in June found deficiencies in the same area, as well as in its quality-assurance program.

"The safety deficiencies in both systems were quite significant, which resulted in our suspension," she said.

In over fifty years in this business I see nothing has changed.

[The Old Fogducker]

Way 'ta go CBA Winnipeg ... long, long overdue.

No, I won't elaborate.

How long before the sympathetic posts start ... "oh, they were just a bunch of great guys trying their best to do a great job with great equipment and along comes the big bad Transport jerks and shuts down a wonderful company flying classic 70 year old airplanes."

Fog

[Mr. North]

Glad to see someone at TC is doing their job.

[cmadude]

Actually, for commercial operations, you are not allowed to fly in RVSM airspace without TCAS II after July 1/09 (in canada). You can fly in RVSM airspace with TCAS I privately. USA RVSM you can still use TCAS I, even though TCAS isnt required there.

Wait until Dec 31, 2010. All twin turbine aircraft (metros i, twin otters,b100, etc) will be grounded if the manufacturer cannot come up with numbers for the aircraft to be able to complete 2nd stage requirement after take-off..Heard from TC that its a hard date for that.

crappy

[BusDriver]

CMAdude, I really don't think FNT's aircraft would ever come close to RVSM airspace. From what I remember they didn't get much above the tree tops.

[North Shore]

Actually, for commercial operations, you are not allowed to fly in RVSM airspace without TCAS II after July 1/09 (in canada). You can fly in RVSM airspace with TCAS I privately. USA RVSM you can still use TCAS I, even though TCAS isnt required there.

Wait until Dec 31, 2010. All twin turbine aircraft (metros i, twin otters,b100, etc) will be grounded if the manufacturer cannot come up with numbers for the aircraft to be able to complete 2nd stage requirement after take-off..Heard from TC that its a hard date for that.

Petrie said his planes, a 1940s Curtiss C-46 Commando and a trio of DC-3s, might be older, but are still safe.

And what Fluck said... Half the time those 'planes don't climb, the Earth curves away beneath them

[just curious]

Anyone ever figure out how to search the TC site for anything, let alone "coming into effect"?

[The Old Fogducker]

And what Fluck said... Half the time those 'planes don't climb, the Earth curves away beneath them

But these are modern times North Shore. Safe commercial operations require more information than in the good old days before flying was dumbed down .... when pilots had a plentiful number of groundcrew to supply them with fur-lined wheelbarrows to carry their balls out to the airplane.

Now they need performance charts to show how the earth's curvature results in a specific climb gradient to clear those 3 or 4 hundred foot high Manitoba obstacles 45 miles down range after takeoff.

Further, the charts need to show the tradeoff between max permissible load and number of functioning cylinders.

Still, for aspiring pilots who envision themselves as potential members of "The Black Sheep Squadron" TV show but were born too late, this is a good spot to play out the role. You'll even get to cannibalize other WW2 wrecks on the field for spare parts.

Fog

[123]

Transport was there performing the phase 4 SMS validation, which will be done for all 705 operators this year.

FNT had 4 years to show some progress towards SMS, and have a reasonably running system in place. Maybe they thought SMS was still a myth, or still something that was going to fail at Transport's level. Guess what, SMS is here for 705, and it is going to be here for 703/704, so suck it up and start learning how it works, and how it can improve your company.

If done properly, SMS will improve the safety at your company, AND improve efficiency and profitability.

FNT dropped the ball big time, and has one one to blame but themselves.

[Cat Driver]

If done properly, SMS will improve the safety at your company, AND improve efficiency and profitability.

It is the " If done properly " bit that is going to be the interesting part.

My bet is the serial rule breakers will quickly learn how to pencil whip the paper work and 703 / 704 land will continue to operate the same as ever....well hang on while I think about this for a millisecond....

......I'm back after only half a millisecond of thinking about this and have come to the conclusion that things will get worse in the serial rule breaking companies as there will be less oversight and paper will rule.

Thankfully I'm no longer in the business.

[Cat Driver]

This is the interesting part.

The company might take legal action against the transportation department, depending on the findings.

[Sasquash]

Congrats Cat, you basically summed up the basic principle of SMS in two short and sweet paragraphs. Right on !!

[Cat Driver]

Congrats Cat, you basically summed up the basic principle of SMS in two short and sweet paragraphs. Right on !!

Here is the long version by the old fogducker, he puts it into its true state by describing how it really works.

Oh, and nobody has said it yet, but if you attempt to operate legally, your boss will most likely fire you after ... or during ... a temper tantrum that would be worthy of a display of an escapee from a mental institution and is without psychoactive medication, ......or a spoiled four year old child that fails to get his way when he wants an ice cream cone.

If he doesn't fire you then and there, you'll just be left on the ground to starve for a few weeks between trips "to teach you a lesson," and then only be assigned the flights that go into crappy places in lousy weather to runways that are better suited to hosting mud wrestling events. Most likely you'll be in the most flogged out airplane in the fleet with another overload "to see if you've learned anything yet."

You will be certain the dispatcher is trying to kill you.

When you finally move on to another employer, your current boss will bad-mouth you far and wide as ..... "having a bad attitude" or a subtle variation on theme would be .... "he just didn't have what it takes to make it in commercial aviation."

Should you ever decide to take a job with Transport to attempt to protect pilots and the travelling public from undue managerial pressure, you will be labelled as "somebody who couldn't make it in the real world."

Lord help you if you should have an accident and someone is hurt ... because that's when the previous statements of "don't worry kid, we'll stand with you. You're in good hands" will evaporate .... your employer will drop you so quickly, you'll think they'd picked up the red-hot end of a fireplace poker ........ saying something along the line of "we have a Transport Canada Approved Operations Manual and a guy like this comes along, and once he goes over the horizon, there's no telling what the little weasel will do despite our finest efforts."

You'll be sold down the road so fast your head will be spinning.

I will just add one more comment:

Forget going to TC or anyone else to get help because the system has been like this forever.

Money drives the commercial side of aviation.

Power drives the regulatory side.

When they are in bed together you are the sandwich between them and your asshole is going to get sore.

[SmokinJoe]

When they are in bed together you are the sandwich between them and your asshole is going to get sore.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Liquid Charlie]

The company might take legal action against the transportation department, depending on the findings.

-- work for Carl for years --

Every one is beating SMS to death - well I got to say it's nice to work for a company that has totally embraced SMS and is determined to make it work --

So what are the issues with FNT -- if they are not complying absolutely they should be shut down -- if TC is going after them because of the type of equipment -- that's another story. No way an old piston popper should need to have TCAS and such unless they mandate it to all aircraft -- yes including the guy with his J-3 -- how crazy does that sound --

Of course the other side of the coin is that the provincial governments were very short sighted when it came to planning airports in the north. The rules and the carriers are needing more - until you can get a runway long enough to handle more "modern" equipment you leave a need for the C-46 and DC-3 -- give a progressive company the tools and they will seize the opportunity and then companies like FNT will be forced to compete or fold.

[glorifiedtaxidriver]

All 705 aircraft in canada were required to have TCAS installed by July 1st I believe it was. Not sure, but I would assume that the DC3 is operated under 705 rules. I could be wrong, never having worked with them.
I heard that it was maintenance related and they had not addressed concerns that TC had brought up with them in the past. Also, that what they need to do get their OC back is cost prohibitive for their operation.
This is all rumour of course and not known fact. So take it for what its worth.

[North Shore]

Anyone got any updates?

[Vortex_driver]

whose doing there runs? with what?

[AME 283]

TC does not suspend with out a reason. Alas most companies get the employees that they pay for. Most of what TC does has a lot of Bull, particularly in the west, and I agree a lot of the TC laws are out of date and not in touch. TC management is also bankrupt in PNR and Pacific and HQ. If you really want to know what is going on do an access to information request.

Aviation survives in spite of TC !!!!

[Buschpielot]

Is there anything new with this story?

[definenormal]

Now I know that TC doesn't exactly have a huge fan club here on Avcanada.....and no doubt for very good reasons in some cases...

But....

......Sorry guys, but in this perticular case they were absolutley right. This shutdown was WAY long overdue; trust me, FNT was an accident waiting to happen.

[xsbank]

That's probably true, but a DC3 is limited to 'maybe' 15,000' with a good supply of oxy, what the hell does it need TCAS for? Another reason to shut them down, but TCAS?

[Vortex_driver]

If I'm not mistaken,

as of july 1st, all 705 operations must have a TCAS... since the DC3 is being operated under 705 regulation because of it's weight, then they must comply with the regs... They had 2 years to save money to install it, and didn't do it... too bad, DC3 is a great airplane...