AA in Jamaica
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Re: AA in Jamaica
Low approaches into those beach airports are quite beautiful but I always raise a brow when I consider the severity an overshoot could be when there is little more than a few meters to the ocean!
Re: AA in Jamaica
its not a good spot to overrun..not very soft...hopefully everyone makes it home for christmas.
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- Panama Jack
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Re: AA in Jamaica
While details on the American Airlines Boeing 737-800 overrun at Kingston remain sketchy, meteorological data shows poor weather conditions during arrival.
American's timetable shows flight AA331's scheduled arrival time is 21:10, but the carrier says the aircraft landed at 21:22CST, equating to 22:22 local.
Meteorological information from Norman Manley International Airport indicated heavy rain and possible thunderstorm activity at this time.
The airport has a single runway, designated 12/30, which has a length of 2,716m (8,910ft) but its virtually-offshore location - on a thin strip of land south of Jamaica - leaves little overrun margin at either end.
There is no confirmation of which runway the aircraft was using. While there is an instrument landing system for runway 12, the weather data indicates that this would have required landing with a tail wind.
NOTAM information, dated today, shows that the airport has restated the runway distances available to aircraft, and introduced a displaced threshold on runway 30.
American states that two of the 148 passengers were admitted to hospital for observation, but all others have been released. The jet, arriving from Miami, was also carrying a crew of six.
Damage to the 737 is substantial. Its fuselage has fractured aft of the wing, its right-hand CFM International CFM56 engine has separated and the left wing-tip has snapped.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... errun.html
Just wondering-- is that trash on the beach or airplane bits, pieces and interior piliffered by locals overnight?
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
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Re: AA in Jamaica
By the looks of the militaryesque folks standing in front on the aircraft surrounded by yellow ribbon, I hardly think it is remnants of pilfering locals.
Re: AA in Jamaica
Come on Jack, you had the "pleasure" of flying into this airport. Garbage and litter everywhere.
Kingston is a lot of things. Beautiful aint one of them.
arictaylor wrote:Low approaches into those beach airports are quite beautiful but I always raise a brow when I consider the severity an overshoot could be when there is little more than a few meters to the ocean!
Kingston is a lot of things. Beautiful aint one of them.
Re: AA in Jamaica
trash...its the east coast and the trades bring in huge amounts of garbage..you would be amazed how much plastic is floating in the oceans...
I fly into KIN all the time with a 737-300...the approach lights for 12 have been out for ages and we have been complaining about it but nothing is ever done...and the only ILS is to 12 I think...with the bulk of the weather to the SE of the airport at the time and the blue mountains just to the north... runway 12 would have been the best choice..pending what the winds were ofcourse, but it is common for Kingston to have 12 as the active even though the winds favour 30..I have no idea what the winds were at the time...but it would not surprise me that most arrivals last night were using the ILS to 12...I will also add that the runway lighting is also poor in my opinion...anyway I am just glad that everyone got out and there was no fire...
I fly into KIN all the time with a 737-300...the approach lights for 12 have been out for ages and we have been complaining about it but nothing is ever done...and the only ILS is to 12 I think...with the bulk of the weather to the SE of the airport at the time and the blue mountains just to the north... runway 12 would have been the best choice..pending what the winds were ofcourse, but it is common for Kingston to have 12 as the active even though the winds favour 30..I have no idea what the winds were at the time...but it would not surprise me that most arrivals last night were using the ILS to 12...I will also add that the runway lighting is also poor in my opinion...anyway I am just glad that everyone got out and there was no fire...
Re: AA in Jamaica
Not to nitpick, but Kingston airport is located on a peninsula of the south side of the island and the trades blow from the NE. The garbage is from the locals.CAL wrote:trash...its the east coast and the trades bring in huge amounts of garbage..you would be amazed how much plastic is floating in the oceans...
I fly into KIN all the time with a 737-300...the approach lights for 12 have been out for ages and we have been complaining about it but nothing is ever done...and the only ILS is to 12 I think...with the bulk of the weather to the SE of the airport at the time and the blue mountains just to the north... runway 12 would have been the best choice..pending what the winds were ofcourse, but it is common for Kingston to have 12 as the active even though the winds favour 30..I have no idea what the winds were at the time...but it would not surprise me that most arrivals last night were using the ILS to 12...I will also add that the runway lighting is also poor in my opinion...anyway I am just glad that everyone got out and there was no fire...
It has been a couple of years since i flew into KIN but is it still a DME arc to the ILS and do they have functioning radar now?
Re: AA in Jamaica
No your right mostly but when I say trades I generally mean easterly...we have a huge problem here in the Caymans with garbage floating in, but knowing Kingston it may very well be 'local' garbage as you say.
In regards to the arc to 12...dont think so we are always straight in(well its an offset)...I have been flying the route for only 3 years..they do have radar yes and I am assuming it works as we sometimes get vectors for traffic...I am guessing things have changed a bit since you were last in KIN? dont think you are missing much:)
In regards to the arc to 12...dont think so we are always straight in(well its an offset)...I have been flying the route for only 3 years..they do have radar yes and I am assuming it works as we sometimes get vectors for traffic...I am guessing things have changed a bit since you were last in KIN? dont think you are missing much:)
Re: AA in Jamaica
This should give you an idea of the IAPs.
http://kingston.vatcar.org/mkjpcharts.html
NOT to be used for real life flying!!!
http://kingston.vatcar.org/mkjpcharts.html
NOT to be used for real life flying!!!
Timing is everything.
Re: AA in Jamaica
Your garbage in GCM is probably coming from Jamaica!
You are right, been awhile, and nop, I sure don't miss it.
Back to the accident.
METARS for MKJP
2009/12/23 03:00
MKJP 230300Z 32008KT 3000 +SHRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 21/20 Q1014 RETSRA
2009/12/23 04:00
MKJP 230400Z 32014KT 11500 +SHRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT028 BKN090 21/18 Q1013 RERA
Definitely a tailwind for RWY 12 but probably under 10kts.
You are right, been awhile, and nop, I sure don't miss it.
Back to the accident.
METARS for MKJP
2009/12/23 03:00
MKJP 230300Z 32008KT 3000 +SHRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 21/20 Q1014 RETSRA
2009/12/23 04:00
MKJP 230400Z 32014KT 11500 +SHRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT028 BKN090 21/18 Q1013 RERA
Definitely a tailwind for RWY 12 but probably under 10kts.
Re: AA in Jamaica
Some good pictures from Twitter:
http://twitpic.com/uspc6
http://twitpic.com/usp7k
http://twitpic.com/usp5k
http://twitpic.com/usozt
http://twitpic.com/uspc6
http://twitpic.com/usp7k
http://twitpic.com/usp5k
http://twitpic.com/usozt
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Re: AA in Jamaica
As someone who flew off that runway every dayedit/Lil I'm actually surprised it's taken this long for someone to mess it up, saw too many near misses in my time there.
stl
stl
Re: AA in Jamaica
Morgan's Harbour is 'jus down de road nah' (Where Bond took Felix and met Quarrel while looking for Dr. No)
Re: AA in Jamaica
Ok. If they were on the ILS 12 how could they end up on the beach? Maybe the airport diagram I am looking at is not that descriptive, but would they not have to be landing on rw30 to overrun onto the beach?
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Re: AA in Jamaica
Yes, also heard interesting stories from my colleague about trying to make it to work amist a shoot-out between the local middle-class neighborhood and the Constabulary. When I was in Toronto or when I am in Hounslow it makes me think of Kingston (without the more pleasant weather). I honestly don't understand why people choose to vacation in Jamaica. Even more bizarre is the white girls with their rent-a-dreads vacation boyfriends.Come on Jack, you had the "pleasure" of flying into this airport. Garbage and litter everywhere.
In any case, New Years Eve 2000 was a lot of fun in Ocho Rios and taught me some very interesting dancing with the local girls-- very friendly, close-in type of stuff-- as close as one could get to sex while being fully dressed.
Merry Christmas amigo.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
Re: AA in Jamaica
arictaylor,
The diagram is very misleading, both thresholds are very close to water, but the Kingston Harbour side is coloured blue, the Caribbean side is white, an unfortunate misprint. The aircraft crossed the Old Palisadoes road which is like a narrow breakwater that runs northeast separating the harbour from the sea until arcing west to Kingston. About 200 feet from the road is the "beach".
The diagram is very misleading, both thresholds are very close to water, but the Kingston Harbour side is coloured blue, the Caribbean side is white, an unfortunate misprint. The aircraft crossed the Old Palisadoes road which is like a narrow breakwater that runs northeast separating the harbour from the sea until arcing west to Kingston. About 200 feet from the road is the "beach".
Re: AA in Jamaica
A good view of where the 737 ended up here in the video:
http://www.kens5.com/news/AA-sends-team ... 79962.html
.. rather lucky it was raining and there was no fire nor any fatalities
http://www.kens5.com/news/AA-sends-team ... 79962.html
.. rather lucky it was raining and there was no fire nor any fatalities

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Re: AA in Jamaica
KINGSTON, Jamaica December 25, 2009, 01:38 pm ET
Offshore lights that guide pilots into Jamaica's main airport had been knocked out for more than a month when an American Airlines jet landed in driving rain and overshot the runway, injuring most of the 154 people on board, officials said Friday.
An underwater electrical fault in November disrupted the 1,300-foot (400-meter) stretch of white lights on a sandbar stretching into the Caribbean Sea, according to Norman Manley International Airport operations director Stanley Smith. Pilots have been regularly advised about the outage, and the runway itself was fully lit, he said.
"The airport has been fully operational since (the outage) ... so we wouldn't presume that would be a cause. But clearly the investigation is still preliminary," airport vice president Mark Williams told The Associated Press.
American Airlines Flight 331 skidded off the runway as it landed in heavy rain Tuesday night, arriving from Washington's Reagan National Airport by way of Miami. The Boeing 737-800's fuselage cracked open, the left main landing gear collapsed and the nose was crushed as the plane lurched to a halt at the ocean's edge.
All 154 people aboard survived. Ninety-two were taken to hospitals, with no injuries considered life-threatening. The U.S. State Department said 76 of the passengers were Americans.
Jamaican and U.S. authorities are continuing their investigation, including whether the pilot could have avoided the accident by aborting the landing and circling for another attempt.
The Kingston airport has one runway with two designations, depending on the direction of a plane's approach. Lights leading to the other end of the runway were functioning, but wind conditions made that approach less desirable, Smith said.
The approach lights are not expected to be operating again until next month. Large planes began arriving at Norman Manley again on Thursday after being diverted to Montego Bay for two days.
Smith said there have been no other incidents of landing problems since the approach lights went out in November.
American Airlines spokeswoman Martha Pantin declined to comment on runway conditions because the investigation is still being conducted. The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board's press office was closed for Christmas.
Jamaican officials expect the probe to be concluded by Sunday, though Civil Aviation Authority director general Oscar Derby told Radio Jamaica he did not know when its conclusions would be released.
Re: AA in Jamaica
Edit-Lil The first half of 06L in Montreal had basically nil braking whenever it got wet, and several safety reports were written on it before they actually looked into it. They ended up resurfacing that part of the runway to fix the problem.
I've never been to Kingston, but is it possible that runway suffers the same problem?
I've never been to Kingston, but is it possible that runway suffers the same problem?
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Re: AA in Jamaica
Rockie wrote:Edit-Lil The first half of 06L in Montreal had basically nil braking whenever it got wet, and several safety reports were written on it before they actually looked into it. They ended up resurfacing that part of the runway to fix the problem.
I've never been to Kingston, but is it possible that runway suffers the same problem?
Rockie,
Edit-Lil when I lived there the runway seemed to be just fine in terms of grip, and has plenty of length with BA bringing in their 777 on a regular run and a number large military aircraft as well. The way the winds play there you often get an offshore wind coming across the harbour and many seem to accept a tail wind on landing when arriving over the island from the North, nothing unusual there. The occasions of witnessing long landings/rollouts were all in the dry and hot sun. I have no idea if the runway surface has changed any since that time, it was a while ago now.
stl
Re: AA in Jamaica
Edit-Lil
Back to the thread. Glad there was no post fire and only broken bones and some bruises in this one. Everyone was lucky it wasn't more tragic.
Back to the thread. Glad there was no post fire and only broken bones and some bruises in this one. Everyone was lucky it wasn't more tragic.