University of Western? or Seneca?

[Ashbringer]

Good day,
So back in December I applied to a total of 8 university and colleges for a variety of flight programs and two aerospace engineering programs because I wasn't sure what route in aviation I wanted to take. I was accepted to all the programs,and I i've narrowed down my choices to the flight program at Seneca or the Commercial Aviation Management Program at Western. (I was accepted to other college programs as well but I am interested in getting a degree). I've done some research and it looks like Seneca has the better quality flight training (correct me if I'm wrong) and they own all their own planes, where as Western just has a business degree with outside flight training tacked onto it. I'm interested in hearing your opinions whether you attended these schools or not, what are some good and bad things about these programs that you guys know of?
Thanks.

[North Shore]

My impression of the flight colleges is that you'll get an expensive (but well trained) CPL, and some assorted bits of paper that say 'Business Management' on them, but really don't amount to much. If you want to get a business degree, then go to a proper University and get one, and then do your flight training afterwards..

My $.02.

[Walker]

<--- This


go to a real university in a "real" program, and do your training at a mom and pop style outfit that has reasonable turnover at least one active class 1 and a 702/703 OC. Be at least an hour early for your flights (starting on day one.) Be courteous, curious, and professional. Treat each flight as a job interview, get to know people, stick around the flight school before and after flights, offer to help clean, fuel, etc. Ask questions, don't piss people off, get to know the owners, chief pilot, and CFI... Be an all around wholesome trustworthy gal/guy..... If they have an opining for a dispatcher jump on it, if you have to quit your $20/hr job to take the $10/hr plane fueling gig DO IT, even if its just on weekends; If you get a chance to ride in the back of Toms Luscomb, or get some back seat time in the Aerostar then all the better....
Then if you play your cards right they will be grooming you for that new class 4 position that's going to open up when Johny the class 2 gets the call for Borek and everyone moves up the ladder.


A 200hr pilot is a 200hr pilot and no one is going to give 2 ****** where you received your training (IMHO it may even be detrimental to put XYZ college on your CV.) If however that 200hr license was also a 200hr job interview for that first gig you will be light years ahead of the next kid with a business management degree from a marginally effective school.

Furthermore no one gives 2 ******* about an "aviation degree" or a BCOM unless your aviation degree is from here (http://www.ntps.edu) or your BCOM is from here (http://business.queensu.ca/)
And your not getting into the first school unless you have an undergrad in physics/math etc and your not getting into the second on unless you are running grades in the 90%+ range (PLUS extracurricular nonsense).... A degree is NOT a bad idea if you have the time/money for it. It will slow you down for the first few years of working, it "may" prove adventurous later on if your gunning for that elusive Cathay job but its not 100% needed.

If you want to do a degree don't take business, its a complete waste of time unless your trying to get into law school... Take a hard science or a basket weaving humanities program like Political science, psychology, etc... Economics may be an ok middle of the road program.

ask around and don't necessarily believe the first thing the man who wants to take your $40K says....


Edit:
Also Hobknob like there's no tomorrow, go out drinking with people (don't go home to play WOW), stay in contact and become everyone's best friend.... ALL the GOOD jobs are found via buddies...


Edit #2:
also CONSIDER (that doesn't mean do it, but rather CONSIDER) buying a plane; ripping through your training and then selling it....

[mcopolo]

I would say to go with Western's program since you will getting a regular business degree on top of your flight training. I consider you lucky to get accepted to Western's program since my friend and I are still waiting for acceptance from Western. Do you mind telling me what average did they accept you with, and what conditions did say you have to comply to in order to keep the acceptance?

From I have researched, Waterloo's Geography or Science degree with aviation is ok, but the aiport they use is very far away from the university, so you would have to cover your own expenses to get there. Myself, I am personally not interested or capable of going into any Science program, and Geography seems boring. So I came to a conclusion western's bussiness + aviation was the best option.

Seneca's flight training, I can't deny from what I have heard, is top notch, but is a college. I am not saying college can't get you anywhere but to find high paid jobs other than being a pilot these days, you would need at least a University degree to even have a chance. And even the standards are being raised for pilots, Airliners obviously will choose some with University degree + flight training over college degree + flight training.

[Thunderstrike]

Hey Ashbringer,

I can't speak for the Seneca program other than I know the flight training is pretty good there. I am a recent graduate (as of last week actually) of the Western program so I know a couple things about it.

PM me for details, but all I'm going to say here is that the education provided at UWO is top notch as is the flight training we receive. The aircraft are all pretty much brand new as well.

Cheers and good luck with your decision making,
TS

[eterepekio]

I flew with grads from almost every program. The best guys seem to come from Confederation for some reason.

[Ashbringer]

I would say to go with Western's program since you will getting a regular business degree on top of your flight training. I consider you lucky to get accepted to Western's program since my friend and I are still waiting for acceptance from Western. Do you mind telling me what average did they accept you with, and what conditions did say you have to comply to in order to keep the acceptance?

From I have researched, Waterloo's Geography or Science degree with aviation is ok, but the aiport they use is very far away from the university, so you would have to cover your own expenses to get there. Myself, I am personally not interested or capable of going into any Science program, and Geography seems boring. So I came to a conclusion western's bussiness + aviation was the best option.

Seneca's flight training, I can't deny from what I have heard, is top notch, but is a college. I am not saying college can't get you anywhere but to find high paid jobs other than being a pilot these days, you would need at least a University degree to even have a chance. And even the standards are being raised for pilots, Airliners obviously will choose some with University degree + flight training over college degree + flight training.

I got my acceptance to the CAM program in early April, and along with the acceptance letter came a sheet that listed all the averages required to be accepted to various programs. The CAM program was listed as accepting people if they had an 81% average or better in the pre reqs as well as other 4 U or M courses. This surprised me because I thought your marks would need to be higher to get into this program.

As for Seneca and the degree issue,
as I was saying, I am interested in getting a degree, and the Seneca program is a four year program that gives you a Bachelor Degree in Applied Technology - Flight. So both programs give you a degree.

[gustind]

Seneca's flight training, I can't deny from what I have heard, is top notch, but is a college. I am not saying college can't get you anywhere but to find high paid jobs other than being a pilot these days, you would need at least a University degree to even have a chance. And even the standards are being raised for pilots, Airliners obviously will choose some with University degree + flight training over college degree + flight training.

What are you basing this on since it is so obvious.

[mcopolo]

Seneca's flight training, I can't deny from what I have heard, is top notch, but is a college. I am not saying college can't get you anywhere but to find high paid jobs other than being a pilot these days, you would need at least a University degree to even have a chance. And even the standards are being raised for pilots, Airliners obviously will choose some with University degree + flight training over college degree + flight training.

What are you basing this on since it is so obvious.

I base it on the fact that 2 of my uncles that work for Cathay Pacific in Hong Kong at a high management level, and they say the same thing. Plus go www.flyuwo.com and read the Jan news letter thing. Alot of the grads there succeeding in all parts of the world, I rmb one of them getting hired by Cathay Pacific right now and is training in Australia as of now....

so what do u think?!!!?

[pilotman15]

Seneca's flight training, I can't deny from what I have heard, is top notch, but is a college. I am not saying college can't get you anywhere but to find high paid jobs other than being a pilot these days, you would need at least a University degree to even have a chance. And even the standards are being raised for pilots, Airliners obviously will choose some with University degree + flight training over college degree + flight training.

Plumbers, Electricians, Carpenters, etc apparently are not "high-paying jobs"..............but wait..... pilot is?

[mcopolo]

Nope, I don't actually mean that. Ofcourse, those jobs earn alot of money. Even garbage men earns more money than pilots sometime. Can these workers ever reach the role of CEO in a company? NOPE, unless they start their own busienss. But the fact of the matter is, no job is a stable job. One economy crisis can wipe you out in a matter of seconds. To have a back up plan (A university degree) I think is more useful in the future, and ofcourse is my own opinion.
I am entitled to my own thought, and speech right?

[Hedley]

I am unsure as to why anyone would go to university to get a degree in welding, driving a bus, operating a bulldozer, or a crane, or an aeroplane.

Such a degree is an academic farce. All of the above are useful skills, but they might be better taught at some specialized vocational institution which might award some sort of diploma or industry certification (such as a TCA CPL).

As mentioned above, if you want a degree, get a "normal" degree in engineering, science, commerce, languages, history, etc. Something interesting to you, and hopefully useful in the real world, with possibly (but not necessarily) some overlap with your aviation interests.

[gustind]

.

[mcopolo]

I am entitled to my own thought, and speech right?

Actually no you are not. I am sure a university education would explain why. Hint: CCRF

WRONG. I am taking grade 12 law right now..lol

Fundamental freedoms (section 2), namely freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of thought, freedom of belief, freedom of expression, freedom of the press and of other media of communication, freedom of peaceful assembly, and freedom of association.

[TopperHarley]

Your giving those of us with an education a bad name man, so just stop it now!

I went to the UWO program. It's a good school with great training, and I would definetly recommend it. It's expensive, but you'd pay the same thing going to university on your own terms and doing your flying on the side.

UWO is a recognize university and you get a "real" degree. People who have done the degree without the flying option are doing quite well. You can double-major in economics, branch off into accounting, etc. Useful skills for flying an airplane? Maybe not, but it could open up some doors down the road.

Look, going to university is NOT going to automatically get you an awesome flying job right out of school. To the vast majority of small companies, your education will not count for anything. In some cases, it could hinder you. Once you start applying to the majors, it will help out. But it won't get you the job. Networking, flight time, previous work experience, and your attitude will still determine whether or not youre hired. So having a fancy degree from a nice university will not do you any good if you are a dickhead who nobody wants to fly with.

You will learn a lot while in school and probably have a lot of fun. But you will learn a lot more once you're out in the real world. Having an education with real world experience will make you a well-rounded and very marketable pilot. One, without the other, is not very useful to any company.

[mcopolo]

Is funny how I try the say the same thing and I get hated....

I am also just saying a University degree will help u in the long run......

Wow...talk about hate...

And to clear up some hate....

I am not saying College is worse or better than university since they are different...

College is more hands on, University is more theories and such. That is the difference, if they were the same then why don't they call everything Universities? There is reasons why there are two names for different types of education, just choose the one fits you best.

The UWO CAM program COMBINES a REGULAR BUSINESS PROGRAM with Flight training so you can save a little bit of money (they get discount since is a school) and lots of time. You are multitasking instead of doing your degree first then getting your flight training after. OSAP will also borrow money to you because is University.

My point of view is that if I DO GET LAID off from being a pilot, at least I can change routes and go the business way with a University degree with a chance to become CEO of some company (you can rarely reach the level of CEO with a college degree). Without a back up plan, I think I would be sleeping on the streets or working at McDonald's making min wage if I do get laid off as a pilot. The Economy is not stable......

So if you guys still are misunderstanding me, and want to hate. Go ahead. I am just trying to put my 2 cents. Isn't this the whole reason why people post on forums, to get other opinions and help? No need to pick fights or hate on anybody on the internet, come on, is just the internet...everybody..take it easy...

[hamstax]

The UWO program is a great way to go. I'm just finishing up my 3rd year. Western is great and DFC is amazing as well. I would suggest you stop by DFC and take a look at some of the airplanes and talk to people and maybe then you can get a better idea of what the CAM program is all about.

PS: Everyone who went to a college will say it is the best and everyone who went to a university will say it is the best... just the way it goes on avcanada. See past this and it will allow you to come to the correct decision, that being CAM

[mattedfred]

decide what your goals are

decide the best way to achieve your goals based on your resources and current knowledge

a degree is a poor fall back position for someone that wishes to become a commercial pilot

a trade or similar skill would be way more beneficial in my opinion

if you just want a degree so you can tick the box on an airlines application then figure out the least expensive way to get one

attending a subsidized flight school while taking university courses online would seem to be the least expensive and most efficient use of ones time in my opinion

if it were me i would go to confed if lakehead gave me credit for some of the confed courses and they offered distance learning

i couldn't imagine making $5/hr right seat on a metro II after having spent tens of thousands of dollars on a university degree and all of my flight training

[Slats]

I am also just saying a University degree will help u in the long run

As someone who is (presumably) still in highschool, how do you know this? I'm not saying you're wrong but it seems to me that the hardest part of being a pilot is at the start when you have no time and a degree or diploma doesn't mean a thing. I'd say take whatever route is the most affordable, gives you the best training, and gets you trained and into the workforce in the shortest possible amount of time so you can get out and start logging (preferably) PIC time and plenty of it. In my opinion a good chunk of PIC time acquired under a variety of situations trumps any degree any day of the week for most employers.
I know those big jets are awfully shiny, but don't lose sight of the fact that you are going to have many steps between where you are now and your end goal. Do what makes sense now. Take it one step at a time and enjoy the journey along the way. You just might find you end up somewhere you never expected and happy about it.

[SuperchargedRS]

<--- This


go to a real university in a "real" program, and do your training at a mom and pop style outfit that has reasonable turnover at least one active class 1 and a 702/703 OC. Be at least an hour early for your flights (starting on day one.) Be courteous, curious, and professional. Treat each flight as a job interview, get to know people, stick around the flight school before and after flights, offer to help clean, fuel, etc. Ask questions, don't piss people off, get to know the owners, chief pilot, and CFI... Be an all around wholesome trustworthy gal/guy..... If they have an opining for a dispatcher jump on it, if you have to quit your $20/hr job to take the $10/hr plane fueling gig DO IT, even if its just on weekends; If you get a chance to ride in the back of Toms Luscomb, or get some back seat time in the Aerostar then all the better....
Then if you play your cards right they will be grooming you for that new class 4 position that's going to open up when Johny the class 2 gets the call for Borek and everyone moves up the ladder.


A 200hr pilot is a 200hr pilot and no one is going to give 2 ****** where you received your training (IMHO it may even be detrimental to put XYZ college on your CV.) If however that 200hr license was also a 200hr job interview for that first gig you will be light years ahead of the next kid with a business management degree from a marginally effective school.

Furthermore no one gives 2 ******* about an "aviation degree" or a BCOM unless your aviation degree is from here (http://www.ntps.edu) or your BCOM is from here (http://business.queensu.ca/)
And your not getting into the first school unless you have an undergrad in physics/math etc and your not getting into the second on unless you are running grades in the 90%+ range (PLUS extracurricular nonsense).... A degree is NOT a bad idea if you have the time/money for it. It will slow you down for the first few years of working, it "may" prove adventurous later on if your gunning for that elusive Cathay job but its not 100% needed.

If you want to do a degree don't take business, its a complete waste of time unless your trying to get into law school... Take a hard science or a basket weaving humanities program like Political science, psychology, etc... Economics may be an ok middle of the road program.

ask around and don't necessarily believe the first thing the man who wants to take your $40K says....


Edit:
Also Hobknob like there's no tomorrow, go out drinking with people (don't go home to play WOW), stay in contact and become everyone's best friend.... ALL the GOOD jobs are found via buddies...


Edit #2:
also CONSIDER (that doesn't mean do it, but rather CONSIDER) buying a plane; ripping through your training and then selling it....

Hit the nail of the friggin' head there!

[mcopolo]

I am also just saying a University degree will help u in the long run

As someone who is (presumably) still in highschool, how do you know this? I'm not saying you're wrong but it seems to me that the hardest part of being a pilot is at the start when you have no time and a degree or diploma doesn't mean a thing. I'd say take whatever route is the most affordable, gives you the best training, and gets you trained and into the workforce in the shortest possible amount of time so you can get out and start logging (preferably) PIC time and plenty of it. In my opinion a good chunk of PIC time acquired under a variety of situations trumps any degree any day of the week for most employers.
I know those big jets are awfully shiny, but don't lose sight of the fact that you are going to have many steps between where you are now and your end goal. Do what makes sense now. Take it one step at a time and enjoy the journey along the way. You just might find you end up somewhere you never expected and happy about it.

I know all this because to be honest, I am actually 20, all my friends is either finished college or in 3rd year university. And as of now, my friends who graduated from college are sitting on their butt all day at home doing nothing, I asked them why, they told me they couldn't find a job. They grad from George Brown and Seneca. While My friends at university are getting internships, one of my friend is in London, england studying and working, while an other is working at Qualcomm in the U.S. I got more examples if you like....

[Slats]

Your circle of friends is a miniscule percentage of college/university grads and may not be representative of the whole. Again, I'm not trying to nitpick or bug you, just to point out a different point of view. It's great that your university friends are gainfully employed, but how many of them are flying airplanes? I still maintain that the hardest job to get in aviation is that first flying gig and no amount of higher education will assist in getting it. That is in no way meant to imply that you should not get a degree if you want one. Best of luck to you.

[mcopolo]

Hey, Thank you for actually respecting my opinon.

And yes I do agree with you, that my circle of friends are only a very small percentage of the grads from college and university.

I am not saying gettinga University Degree is a must on your resume when you apply to airlines, heck, the min requirement for the most airlines is high school grad. But I am saying any degree would do a world of good as a back up plan. So you don't have to be jobless if something happens with your pilot job.

I apologize if I made any comments regarding that airlines will mosty hire pilot with university degrees over college degrees....

Ofcourse, experience goes over any university degree for being a pilot....

But how about for people who has no experience flying a commercial aircraft, what do airlines look for?

I think they look for first, your passion for flying, your experience, and if you don't have experience, the level of education you have attended. (Flight schooling is a must for everyone that wants to be a pilot so you no advantage over over people cause everyone is same as you)...that is why I am saying a degree in anything puts you ahead of others.

[Lurch]

I base it on the fact that 2 of my uncles that work for Cathay Pacific in Hong Kong at a high management level,

I am taking grade 12 law right now..lol

I know all this because to be honest, I am actually 20

Quit feeding the troll

Lurch

[mcopolo]

I base it on the fact that 2 of my uncles that work for Cathay Pacific in Hong Kong at a high management level,

I am taking grade 12 law right now..lol

I know all this because to be honest, I am actually 20

Quit feeding the troll

Lurch

Right.....Answering questions that others asked me is trolling....

Don't know how I become a troll....just trying to help

Alright...whatever...