Vancouver VTA procedures

[Panama Jack]

It has been a very long time since I flew VFR in the Vancouver Terminal Area. A few questions:

1) Is transiting traffic (not arriving or departing CYVR) expected to limit movements to the VFR Routes depicted on the VTA Chart?

2) If not, is it feasable for VFR flights to get routings between Vancouver Island and the Mainland by routing on the VFR Checkpoints "Gabriola" DCT "Gary Point"/"Pajos" DCT "King George"? If not what is the closest routing that can be reasonably expected?

3) What is the maximum VFR cruising altitude that can be expected on this route?

4) As far as VFR checkpoint accuracy goes, how close does Terminal expect an aircraft that is routing to/from "Gabriola" to pass over that exact point over the south side of the island?

Thanks, in advance, for all helpful answers.

[Apollo]

Let me see if I can help you out with these... I'll answer as best as I can.

1. From what I've heard, if you're transiting through YVR's airspace, you'll get in shit if you're not planning a published route, as one controller has put it "They're there for a reason."

2. Below 3,000 - not likely, above not sure.

3. Depends on the day - today Vancouver terminal is short-staffed, and not allowing any VFR traffic above 2,500. Most of the time we're asked to descend if we're above 4,500 feet.

4. They gave me shit earlier today for 0.1 mi off

[RVgrin]

As far as I know, Vancouver Terminal has no expectations beyond the expectation that aircraft in its airspace follow the rules.

To enter their Class C airspace you'll need a clearance and are expected to fly according to it or any accepted instruction. Outside of their airspace you are not their problem. Same thing goes for the other controllers in the area (Vancouver Tower, Boundary Bay Tower, Vancouver Center, Victoria Terminal, etc.).

Note that there is a requirement for a Mode C transponder in the general area, so even if you aren't talking to anyone they know where you are at their boundaries, including vertically, e.g. when flying below their airspace.

For the safest and most convenient VFR flight between the mainland and the island it makes sense to talk to someone who can point out traffic and give you an altitude sufficient to glide to shore, if that fan in front of your plane ever stops turning. Terminal controllers aren't that scary. They are there to help you.

Call them up and tell them who you are, where you are, and what you want (altitude and destination, usually). If you are professional they will often give you a direct routing even if there is a NOTAM saying that their services are restricted due to capacity. (You did check the NOTAM, didn't you). It usually depends what runway is in use at YVR and how much traffic is around.

As far as proximity to VFR points is concerned, the answer is "it depends". If the point is adjacent to YVR or nearby IFR traffic they might complain if you are a off by a few hundred feet, but if you are the only plane around and cutting the corner of East Point en route to YYJ you probably won't get spanked. You might find it helpful to program the VFR waypoints' lats/longs (on back of VTA) into your GPS before you fly the area.

If they ask you to go somewhere you don't know, admit it ("unfamiliar") , and ask for a vector while you check the map. Don't accept a clearance to somewhere you aren't sure you can find.

Enjoy!

[dieselbro]

Heres is some input from my experiences, hope it helps!

1) I would say it mostly depends on the time of day and traffic in the vicinity as well as the amount of staff available at the control centre.

2) I would generally take a look at the VTA routes and compare them to your intended route and possibly expect something that roughly resembles the published VFR route if there is limited traffic that is out of the way.

3) Once again it depends on the time of day/traffic/etc. Coming back to the lower mainland one night just past midnight I was allowed to cross from Gabriola direct to Boundary Bay and further east at 7500'. Runway 08 was active and a CX plane was vectored to final below me at 3000' so no conflict. Other times during the day looking to go west direct Tofino from the VOR I would be limited to 4000' for a few miles and then cleared higher when no conflicts existed.

4) For me it depends on the checkpoint. In the case of Gabriola Island I have not been yelled at for being a little off, say over the middle of the island. However I would think that with different points like Oak Bridge etc. where the landmark is smaller you can be more accurate.

[PanEuropean]

For the safest and most convenient VFR flight between the mainland and the island it makes sense to talk to someone who can point out traffic ... Terminal controllers aren't that scary. They are there to help you. Call them up and tell them who you are, where you are, and what you want (altitude and destination, usually).

I think that RVgrin hit the nail right on the head. I fly a 19 passenger twin, with TCAS, Mode S Enhanced, and the whole works, but I still do exactly what RVgrin suggested as soon as I get handed off from the (usually Victoria) tower frequency. On my first call-up, I tell the terminal controllers where I want to go, and ask them to recommend a routing and altitude that will keep me out of their way. The terminal controllers have always been very helpful and easy to work with.

If you tell them that you are flexible with your routing and willing to accept their recommendations for routing / headings / altitude, they usually will thread you through their zone in the most efficient manner, often far more efficiently than following the paths on the VTA. Occasionally, things are really busy, and they will ask you to 'take the long way around', but hey, that's life. They are also quite alert to the fact that the pilots of single engine planes might want to fly a bit higher over the water than those of us in twins, and on many occasions I have heard them offering higher altitudes to aircraft.

Michael

[beaverbob]

The first four answers missed the most important steps.
1: Get a VTA chart and read it in advance.
2: Call anybody else on the radio first and ask for a code to enter Vancouver airspace.
Harbour clearance on 125.35, Campbell River radio on 122.0, Nanaimo Radio on 122.1. If you don't already have a code YVR contollers will just tell you to stay clear of the zone. If above 2500 feet call terminal on 125.2. If over Gabriola then look at the chart for altitude but it will be Victoria terminal first. Vancouver starts to the north of the gulf islands.
From Gabriola you might get cleared to garry point and up the river, or the coal pile and then Boundary Bay tower, Or to the North west and over to the Harbour controllers. Anything that crosses the approaches to or from the YVR runways will likely be at 700 feet.

[RVgrin]

beaverbob makes a good point. Things will go much easier if you already have a unique squawk code. Additional ways to get one include:

- "flight following" with Vancouver Centre or another agency if coming from far away.
- by telephone 1-888-987-2633 (888-YVR-CODE), particularly if leaving from YYJ.
- if coming from the west call CYXX, CYNJ or (as a last resort) CYPK or CZBB.

Flying over the city is fun. Ask for a "City Tour" and expect to be handed to Harbour Tower if it's during their operating hours. (Broadcast on same frequency at night).

Flying over YVR is also fun and saves some time on many flights. On the VTA you will find YVR transit procedures, which, IIRC, are all at 2500'. You can ask for "Over the Top of YVR" and Terminal will usually* guide you in and pass you to Vancouver Tower.

I don't remember if the practice area frequencies are listed in the VTA, but you should know them if you plan to be anywhere nearby. Best to avoid that particular Gong Show if you are weary of experiencing the country's only significant risk of a mid-air collision, but if you are brave and decide to venture in it is not a bad idea to learn some landmarks to announce your position and understand others' announcing theirs.

---

* Vancouver Terminal once surprised me by clearing me to descend into CZBB through YVR space without talking to YVR; must of had them on the hotline. [ Speaking of which, does anyone know the internal procedures involved when they do that? What are the legalities from a VFR pilot's perspective if we get a clearance from one ATC agency into another agency's airspace and someone messes up? Is a clearance a clearance? Is ATC ATC?]).

[cyeg66]

* Vancouver Terminal once surprised me by clearing me to descend into CZBB through YVR space without talking to YVR; must of had them on the hotline. [ Speaking of which, does anyone know the internal procedures involved when they do that? What are the legalities from a VFR pilot's perspective if we get a clearance from one ATC agency into another agency's airspace and someone messes up? Is a clearance a clearance? Is ATC ATC?]).

It's called a "point out" and we gives those to each other all the time, all day long. If the controller receiving the "point out" call has no traffic in the vicinity, and the plane will transit thru the area quickly, it's just quicker (and one could argue, the lazy way) to not speak to the plane. Between a terminal and tower, these need to be done over a hotline, but between 2 radar positions, there's the option of doing a point out using the radar. Simply put, the plane will start flashing on the receiving controller's scope (along with a brief description of what the plane is doing if the initiating controller takes a moment to type them in) and he'll "accept" the point out by clicking on it.

edit: Btw, if, as you asked, an "oops" occurred in another controller's airspace, most likely the blame would lay on the receiving controller's shoulders. As with all incidents, however, an investigation would reveal who said what and what may or may not have been clearly communicated. The blame would surely not rest on the pilot's shoulders (unless he/she did something unexpected, naturally.) You can't protect for stupidity, unfortunately.