Back to work legislation opinions

[stickontheice]

Just curious if in theory the Government enacts Back to Work legislation on a group such as the FAs or Pilots is there usually an expiration date to that order or does it go on indefinitely? Assuming no contract is reached after as what happened with the CSAs?

[Norwegianwood]

Just curious if in theory the Government enacts Back to Work legislation on a group such as the FAs or Pilots is there usually an expiration date to that order or does it go on indefinitely? Assuming no contract is reached after as what happened with the CSAs?

Usually ends in a forced contract and very early on as the Gov. will appoint an arbitrator/mediator at the same time as the back to work order, so no expiration date required.........

[DrBoeing]

Does any one know when the CUPW is going to court to challenge their back to work legislation? This could be very interesting if the CUPW wins their case.

[YYZatcboy]

Would it be legal once legislated back to work to then "Work to Rule"? I imagine that would still cause disruption and would be bad for AC. (Not extending duty time... etc)

[DanJ]

Work to rule, by definition, is working according to the rules in place, so I can't see how that would be illegal.

[MackTheKnife]

Work to rule, by definition, is working according to the rules in place, so I can't see how that would be illegal.

Work-to-rule has been described as an "expression of malicious compliance as an industrial action"


Malicious compliance is the behavior of a person who intentionally inflicts harm by strictly following the orders of management or following legal compulsions, knowing that compliance with the orders will cause a loss of some form resulting in damage to the manager's business or reputation, or a loss to an employee or subordinate. In effect, it is a form of sabotage used to harm leadership or used by leadership to harm subordinates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_compliance

[DanJ]

Work to rule, by definition, is working according to the rules in place, so I can't see how that would be illegal.

Work-to-rule has been described as an "expression of malicious compliance as an industrial action"


Malicious compliance is the behavior of a person who intentionally inflicts harm by strictly following the orders of management or following legal compulsions, knowing that compliance with the orders will cause a loss of some form resulting in damage to the manager's business or reputation, or a loss to an employee or subordinate. In effect, it is a form of sabotage used to harm leadership or used by leadership to harm subordinates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_compliance

"Strictly following the orders of management" wouldn't be illegal though, unless of course, the orders are to break the law. If management doesn't want something done a certain way, don't ask for it to be done that way. Usually what happens is, workers tend to find their own way to accomplish a task easier or quicker. Management is usually onboard with that, but also won't hesitate to issue discipline for such a practice when it suits them.

[MackTheKnife]

Work to rule, by definition, is working according to the rules in place, so I can't see how that would be illegal.

Work-to-rule has been described as an "expression of malicious compliance as an industrial action"


Malicious compliance is the behavior of a person who intentionally inflicts harm by strictly following the orders of management or following legal compulsions, knowing that compliance with the orders will cause a loss of some form resulting in damage to the manager's business or reputation, or a loss to an employee or subordinate. In effect, it is a form of sabotage used to harm leadership or used by leadership to harm subordinates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_compliance

"Strictly following the orders of management" wouldn't be illegal though, unless of course, the orders are to break the law. If management doesn't want something done a certain way, don't ask for it to be done that way. Usually what happens is, workers tend to find their own way to accomplish a task easier or quicker. Management is usually onboard with that, but also won't hesitate to issue discipline for such a practice when it suits them.

It's now all academic anyway. Raitt will force the FA'S back to work just like she did the CAW and its all but guaranteed she will force the Pilots too.



http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Fe ... story.html

[Rockie]

But she said if the flight attendants strike, the government will introduce the back-to-work bill as soon as possible.

"We're doing this because it is the best thing for the economy, it's the best thing to do for the Canadian public and it's the best thing to do for the airline," Raitt told reporters Monday night

Not surprisingly Raitt didn't say it's the best thing for the employees.

[CAL]

why don’t the feds just abolish all unions while they are at it.....it’s interesting that the government is in its position because of a democratic vote but their actions to not allow a recognized union to exercise their rights under the 'law' is anything but democratic...I feel for organized labour in Canada and unless someone challenges this it will get worse. Maybe someone needs to remind the feds why unions were setup in the first place. Labour laws may work well for a 7-11 worker (nothing wrong with that by the way) but they do not encompass the required framework for flight crews...my thoughts anyway...very disappointed with the Canadian government on this one...

[LeadingEdge]

Handing 23,000 employees a paycut is really good for the economy. I guess the Harperites are hoping that Calin will spend his full $5MILLION BONUS...

What a bunch of idiots," you can force me back to work, but you can't force me to work". That will be the motto at AC from now on.

[rigpiggy]

forget any overtime, extra work, drafts, extensions etc.....

[stickontheice]

Feels like we live in the old USSR. A bigger question for me is if this Government won't let flight crews negotiate for a contract. How can we believe they'll let us all no matter what company you call home have an input on working conditions including Crew Rest?

[Rockie]

Minister Raitt was just on the CBC saying that the government is legislating unions back to work for the worker's benefit. She says workers want to be happy in their jobs, and removing their right to strike puts pressure on the union to conclude a deal thereby allowing workers to continue working and , presumably, continue being happy. She didn't even retch when she said it either.

It has to be very difficult talking normally with your mouth so full of pig shit.

[teacher]

I predict mass chaos as:

Rules are strictly followed to the letter
No draft, overtime or any extra work is done
The cabin takes a little longer to be secured and emergency exit row briefings are that much more thorough
Crew rest is stictly followed and not a second less

[yycflyguy]

Crew rest is stictly followed and not a second less

Unlikely. With the FAs they get draft pay on their entire pairing for extending their duty day and compromising their crew rest periods. Essentially they sold safety for a quick buck. This is culturally ingrained in CUPE and eagerly accept the draft pay in lieu of crew rest.

When will the government recognize that there was already one union strike, a second is imminent and there are still 3 employee groups who have rejected TA's and are marching towards job action. The problem does not lie with the employees.

[teacher]

This doesn't mean much since it still has to go to a vote however.................

Air Canada, flight attendants reach tentative deal


An Air Canada flight attendant walks through the terminal at the Halifax airport on Tuesday, Sept. 20, 2011. (Andrew Vaughan / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

Date: Tue. Sep. 20 2011 4:07 PM ET

One day after Labour Minister Lisa Raitt threatened to legislate flight attendants back to work if they walked off the job, a tentative deal has been struck between their union and Air Canada.

The Canadian Union of Public Employees, representing 6,800 flight attendants, made the announcement Tuesday afternoon. Details of the contract won't be made public until the union ratifies the tentative agreement.

"It's business as usual and customers can continue to make their travel plans on Air Canada with confidence," Susan Welscheid, Air Canada's senior vice-president of customer service said in a statement.

The announcement comes after talks broke down late Monday night.

Union president Jeff Taylor said "the union's executive committee will recommend that its members accept this tentative agreement."

The union has to submit the contract to its members nationwide and meetings will be held in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal. The voting process will take at least one week, giving travellers a little time to breathe.

"The best agreement is always the one that the two parties can reach themselves so I strongly encourage the parties to continue to work together so the union can ensure ratification by the membership," Raitt said in the House of Commons shortly after the announcement.

"This is an agreement that is good for both the employees and the employers and as a result is good for Canada and all Canadians. The objective of the legislation that we put on notice yesterday has been achieved."

The union was in a legal position to strike Wednesday morning at 12:01 a.m.

The union has lifted the order to strike and has asked its members to respect their shifts and duties.

Raitt said she started preparing legislation that would force the flight attendants back to work if the two sides can't come up with an agreement that is ratified by the union members, and they walk off the job.

"The reality is we understand from the company that the disruptions on day one would result in 65,000 Canadians in a place that is not their home, quite frankly. They'll be at the other side of their journey and we want to make sure we minimize the disruptions to the travelling public as much as we can," she said.

Earlier this year, Raitt made a similar threat against Air Canada after customer service employees walked out. The move motivated unionized workers and employer to reach a deal and avoid government intervention. The Conservatives also legislated striking Canada Post workers back to the job in June.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... on-110920/

[cdnpilot77]

Great news...I am booked on AC vacations to go to Cuba this Saturday and was watching the developments very closely! Well done, hopefully it gets ratified quickly and can leave the mess of legislation out of it!

[Rockie]

Great news...I am booked on AC vacations to go to Cuba this Saturday and was watching the developments very closely! Well done, hopefully it gets ratified quickly and can leave the mess of legislation out of it!

Unless of course the TA is an unacceptable load of crap like the first one. Do you care if another group of Air Canada employees are saddled with years more of concessions and possibly the end of a pension for newhires as long as you get your vacation in Cuba?

Personally I think it's better to see what the new TA says before uncorking the champagne.

[HeadingAltitudeSpeed]

Only appropriate to send this from the ACA lounge......

[cdnpilot77]

Great news...I am booked on AC vacations to go to Cuba this Saturday and was watching the developments very closely! Well done, hopefully it gets ratified quickly and can leave the mess of legislation out of it!

Unless of course the TA is an unacceptable load of crap like the first one. Do you care if another group of Air Canada employees are saddled with years more of concessions and possibly the end of a pension for newhires as long as you get your vacation in Cuba?

Personally I think it's better to see what the new TA says before uncorking the champagne.

Even if thats the case, then as the union has put it, this will keep things moving for at least another week. So, when I spend my hard earned money on a vacation to Cuba that I have saved for, then yes I am glad there was enough common ground so that I can go on my vacation!

[cdnpilot77]

Further to that Rockie, you should be thanking me for wanting to use your airline and vacation service. I had the opportunity to travel on one of the charter carriers to the same resort at the same time for less money, but chose AC because I have generally been very happy with the service. I also could have just as easily cancelled and had my money refunded today and re-booked with your competitors. But you dont see the customers point of view do you Rockie, all you see is your diminishing pensions that most of us will never see a fraction of in our lifetime and think we should all be appreciative of what you have! I wish I had of known how valued my business was before I dropped all that money...don't worry though, I will remember that minor detail when I am booking 40 people to Jamaica in February for a wedding!

[Legacy]

An employee should have the right now to get screwed over still cdnpilot. You should be looking at it from both sides of the coin.

[cdnpilot77]

An employee should have the right now to get screwed over still cdnpilot. You should be looking at it from both sides of the coin.

My original post...

Great news...I am booked on AC vacations to go to Cuba this Saturday and was watching the developments very closely! Well done, hopefully it gets ratified quickly and can leave the mess of legislation out of it!

I was happy they came to an agreement so that I could enjoy my vacation that has been booked for a couple months. If its not a good deal, it wont be ratified and all the power to them, but I am happy that my vacation will not be cancelled and attempt a re-book 4days before I am set to travel. For someone that does not get more than 2 days in a row off over the course of a year it is a big deal to me! If you see my last line, its actually in support of the negotiating parties to leave the government out of it and understandin that there is still due process.

[Mig29]

For all of you that wish AC should go under, or think that some other airline will be able to pick up the slack in a short period of time, I suggest you look at this picture closely.

Impressive, don't you think?