Valid flight simulator time for PPL

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FenderManDan
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Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by FenderManDan »

The CAR notes
(a) An applicant shall have completed a minimum of 45 hours private pilot flight training in aeroplanes under the direction and supervision of the holder of a Flight Instructor Rating - Aeroplane. A maximum 5 of the 45 hours may be conducted on an approved aeroplane simulator or flight training device.
FTU, that I am training in (TAL on Buttonville), has one but I don't know if it is "approved". I have seen students doing IFR navigation on it for the most part. I am flying on the Piper however the simulator setting looks like Cessna. Does it matter, I mean I have to do a spin lesson in c-172 anyways?

Cheers

Dan
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by AUGER9 »

Just ask the school if it's approved. I doubt they would have one if it wasn't. Plane doesn't matter- You can do your PPL on as many different aircraft as you would like.
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by KK7 »

It's unfortunate that the school didn't already provide you with this information. Anyways, the main use of simulators in the PPL training is towards the instrument training that occurs towards the latter part of the PPL training. It doesn't take much to have an approved simulator so I would be surprised if the school was operating one that wasn't approved.

Ask your instructor or the CFI how the simulator can be incorporated into your training.
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by Shiny Side Up »

All it really takes to get a Sim approved is time and patientce. If you're worried about the validity of the Sim it should have a certificate and a registration number, ask to see them. Mine's right on the wall beside the sim. Aside from the style of DG and AI there is usually no difference what type of single engine four seater fixed pitch airplane the sim is representing for your purposes. Since you won't be able to see out the window to see if you're wings are on top or below, it won't trouble your mind (unless you have a particularly high end sim - unlikely at PPL level) There are essentially three lessons for PPL to use the sim. Basic sim introduction and basic full panel practice. Navaid practice. And partial panel. Note that partial panel isn't required for the PPL, but it is useful to see what might go wrong - even to help you trouble shoot should stuff look funny when you're out and aboot VFR.
Does it matter, I mean I have to do a spin lesson in c-172 anyways?
Slightly OT, but what model of Cherokee are you flying? Most of them are approved to do spins. In fact if its approved for it, I'd reccomend doing spins in it, they tend to give you a better one.
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FenderManDan
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by FenderManDan »

Shiny Side Up wrote:Aside from the style of DG and AI there is usually no difference what type of single engine four seater fixed pitch airplane the sim is representing for your purposes. Since you won't be able to see out the window to see if you're wings are on top or below, it won't trouble your mind (unless you have a particularly high end sim - unlikely at PPL level)
Yes it it's a simple one Cessna style cockpit with three big screens stationary. I have seen students loading a single and multi engine sim and flying one engine out in the cloud type sim.
Shiny Side Up wrote:Slightly OT, but what model of Cherokee are you flying? Most of them are approved to do spins. In fact if its approved for it, I'd reccomend doing spins in it, they tend to give you a better one.
It's actually '79 and '82 p-28-161 Warrior II. POH specifies that are not spin certified. I asked what is the technical reason as a question and my instructor gave me an answer, however I can tell he was not sure. I'll ask the Piper tech again. Piper seems to be ok in getting back to all my questions.
KK7 wrote:t's unfortunate that the school didn't already provide you with this information. Anyways, the main use of simulators in the PPL training is towards the instrument training that occurs towards the latter part of the PPL training. It doesn't take much to have an approved simulator so I would be surprised if the school was operating one that wasn't approved.
Yeah, I know. In the orientation class (ground school) CFI mentioned it briefly but sad nothing about how to use it and when. I just did have a chance to inquire again since I had a very decent weather pattern so I was using it for flying lessons. Just another day, the weather was not cooperating due to the windy conditions and I did not fly. I figured it might be a good chance to do something on it since it counts 5 hours toward totals. My instructor mentioned it counts toward instrument time and it is used near the end of instruction for the PPL.

Thanks again

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Dan
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by Shiny Side Up »

It's actually '79 and '82 p-28-161 Warrior II.


Hershey bar or tapered wing?
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

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Tapered.
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

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With manual flaps 10-25-40
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by Shiny Side Up »

FenderManDan wrote:Tapered.
Odd. The warriors (with the tapered wing, and some without) I've seen have been cerified for it, though notably the Archers haven't (180 hp warrior) Though its often tough to tell since Piper played around with a ton of names and follow ons to the standard PA-28.
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by Deltawidget »

The PA28-151 and 161 are Warriors. All have tapered wings.

The PA28-140,150, 160 and 180 are all "Cherokees" and all have the hershey bar wing.

PA28-181 is the Archer and has the tapered wing

There might be some confusion when piper added in the 3rd row of windows Cherokee 180 in around 1972. From 1972 to about 1975, the "Cherokee", still with the hershey wings had a 3rd window. In 1976, they lengthened the frame 6 inches, changed the wing to tapered and renamed it the "Archer"

No Warriors are spin certified, but the Hershey bar cherokees are.

The reason, from what I remember, is that during certification, it was unable to recover within the prescribed limits (I believe 2 full rotations?) - The Warrior was only able to in 2.5, or something very close.
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by Shiny Side Up »

The PA28-151 and 161 are Warriors. All have tapered wings.

The PA28-140,150, 160 and 180 are all "Cherokees" and all have the hershey bar wing.

PA28-181 is the Archer and has the tapered wing
Not quite as cut and dried as that since I've seen hershey bar Warriors and Archers before. The late production Cherokee 160s were also tagged "Warriors", to add confusion were marketed as "Cherokee Warrior" until sometime into the switch to the 161 tapered wing where they dropped the Cherokee part from their name (and badging on their factory paintjobs). The same happened with the Cherokee 180 whhich seen a few name changes (and paint badging) from "Cherokee 180" to "Cherokee D" and eventually to "Cherokee Archer", shortly after the switch to the tapered wing (and model designation). Further complicating things, There was a factory kit to change the Cherokee 140 to upgrade it to 151, with the change of the engine (to the O320 D2A if I remember rightly) and the re-installation of the rear seats to sell them as 2+2 seating. Some of these were 140 airframes converted at the factory new - since a two seat cherokee didn't sell as well as they had hoped.

In general though, the hershey bar wing is spinnable (except on the retractable arrow) the tapered wing not.
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Re: Valid flight simulator time for PPL

Post by D_Thissen »

FenderManDan wrote:The CAR notes
(a) An applicant shall have completed a minimum of 45 hours private pilot flight training in aeroplanes under the direction and supervision of the holder of a Flight Instructor Rating - Aeroplane. A maximum 5 of the 45 hours may be conducted on an approved aeroplane simulator or flight training device.
FTU, that I am training in (TAL on Buttonville), has one but I don't know if it is "approved". I have seen students doing IFR navigation on it for the most part. I am flying on the Piper however the simulator setting looks like Cessna. Does it matter, I mean I have to do a spin lesson in c-172 anyways?

Cheers

Dan
Yes it is approved...
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