(CNN) -- Air travelers usually are prepared for the occasional hectic and overcrowded flight. But all are hoping they'll at least be able to sit down.
Arthur Berkowitz, 57, stood for the length of his US Airways flight in July after a fellow passenger occupied half of his seat. The non-stop flight from Anchorage to Philadelphia lasted seven hours.
"I didn't fly from Alaska to Philadelphia," Berkowitz said on consumer advocate Christopher Elliott's blog, Elliott.org. "I stood."
CNN recently reported on the extensive flight delays that travelers experienced during last month's snowstorm. JetBlue has begun reimbursing those customers for their eight-hour tarmac waits, and Berkowitz feels US Airways should do more to address the issue of his extended standing.
He initially had an empty seat next to him on Flight 901, but a late passenger sat there and took more space than he paid for.
"His size required both armrests to be raised up and allowed for his body to cover half of my seat," Berkowitz said.
The man was very polite and expressed regret over the situation, said Berkowitz, who notified the flight crew that he was unable to fasten his seat belt and asked if he could move to business class.
As the flight was filled to capacity, and as passengers are not permitted to sit in the flight attendants' jump seats, Berkowitz found himself strolling through the cabin for hours. Flight attendants apparently asked him to remain seated and fasten his seat belt, but he said the co-passenger was seated on his seat belt fastener, making this impossible.
That meant that, though he did manage to wedge himself into his seat for the takeoff and landing, he was unable to comply with the requirement that his seat belt be fastened at those times.
Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen told CNN that it also is against regulations to stand for an entire flight and that passengers are always encouraged to remain in their seats.
US Airways issued a statement saying it recognizes the inconvenience of the situation. "We all understand how sensitive a subject passengers of size can present, but we should never compromise safety and we need every passenger to help us ensure that every flight operates safely by complying with those crew members' instructions."
When the plane landed, Berkowitz said, he immediately contacted a US Airways agent who referred him to the company headquarters in Phoenix. Though the airline offered him a $200 voucher for his trouble, Berkowitz said, he did not accept it.
After months of unsuccessful communication, he said, he went to the FAA, which notified him that US Airways considered the matter closed. CNN could not independently confirm the details.
Although he is disappointed at the amount he was offered, Berkowitz said, his motivation for speaking out now is not financial.
"My reason for bringing this up is strictly and solely for the airline to look at their safety procedures," he told CNN.
Although US Airways expresses regret over the situation, the airline does feel the matter has been resolved and that Berkowitz's concerns have been noted.
"We have attempted to address this customer's service concerns, but offering increasing amounts of compensation based on a threat of a safety violation isn't really fair -- especially when the passenger himself said he didn't follow the crew members' instructions and fasten his seat belt," US Airways said in a written statement. "If there was a safety issue -- we will address that professionally and with the proper attention toward preventing it from happening again. We have already provided feedback on the service issues with the team involved, and thank Mr. Berkowitz for making his concerns known."
Some airlines have policies in place to handle issues with "passengers or customers of size." According to its website, Southwest Airlines requires customers who do not fit in their seats (which are 17 inches wide) to purchase an extra seat before boarding, but will refund them for the seat if the flight is not full. AirTran, which is being purchased by Southwest, has the same policy. Continental and United require passengers to be able to lower their armrests and fasten their seat belt with no more than one seat belt extender. Delta requires that passengers lower their armrests and fasten their seat belt with no extenders. Passengers may be required to purchase an additional seat if they fall outside of this protocol.
US Airways has a policy that allows for extenders, or booking the passenger on a later flight. If neither is possible, the passenger may be charged for an additional seat. Berkowitz's grievances extend to the gate crew members who didn't do more to follow this policy.
Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
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Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/25/travel/pa ... +Recent%29
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Interesting issue. My wife and I had a flight last winter to the Carribeans and one of the passager was grossly overweight in the 737-600. He occupied an aisle seat and required a seat belt extension. The passenger in the middle seat was in the same situation as the above fellow. After take off, this large individual ended up standing in the aisle for the majority of the flight. Unfortunatly my wife had the aisle seat opposite to him and had a rear end by her face for 5 hours. I was going to make an issue but we decided not to push the issue and spoil the beginning of our holidays. It bring out a sensitive issue however, if you are that big, should you be required to advised the carrier and-or have the courtesy of buying a second seat??? what`s the policy with carriers??
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
This can be a real problem as society bulges outward. A female Calgary lawyer "of size" sucessfully sued airlines so she would not have to buy 2 seats even though she is so big that she cannot sit in one seat.
One airline I was involved with for a short period raised the question about people in wheel chairs and the company developed a policy not to sell them a ticket because we were not able to properly accomodate them but that was done at point of sale and TC signed off on it because it was a safety of flight issue. We were not able to purchase the required equipment because it was not made.
Now here is a question that came up. Suppose a wheel chair passenger came to your airline that flies Metros or Beech 1900's and your procedure is to wheel the passenger out to the airlane and load them via a pallet and a forklift into the cargo bay, transfer them into the passenger compartment where there is certified tiedowns for both the wheelchair and passenger and then reinstall the bulkhead.
Is it a dignified method of accomodating this person with special needs.
Also, the steps into the airplane are usually limited to 365 pounds and the seats are designed for a 170 pound person. What if that passenger claims he/she is of normal size when booking the seat but shows up and he/she weighs 300+ pounds. And you have 7 passengers already checked in for the flight in a Navajo. Tough decisions.
One airline I was involved with for a short period raised the question about people in wheel chairs and the company developed a policy not to sell them a ticket because we were not able to properly accomodate them but that was done at point of sale and TC signed off on it because it was a safety of flight issue. We were not able to purchase the required equipment because it was not made.
Now here is a question that came up. Suppose a wheel chair passenger came to your airline that flies Metros or Beech 1900's and your procedure is to wheel the passenger out to the airlane and load them via a pallet and a forklift into the cargo bay, transfer them into the passenger compartment where there is certified tiedowns for both the wheelchair and passenger and then reinstall the bulkhead.
Is it a dignified method of accomodating this person with special needs.
Also, the steps into the airplane are usually limited to 365 pounds and the seats are designed for a 170 pound person. What if that passenger claims he/she is of normal size when booking the seat but shows up and he/she weighs 300+ pounds. And you have 7 passengers already checked in for the flight in a Navajo. Tough decisions.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Special needs my ass. If this fat carcass can't fit in an airline sized seat with both armrests down, he/she should NOT be on that aircraft. I've had about enough with society these days catering to the overweight and obese. If during an emergency you are clogging up that aisle or window exit, I WILL beat your ass out of the way. Enough is enough - obesity is NOT okay or an excuse and you ARE a wasteful and useless member of society.oldtimer wrote:Is it a dignified method of accomodating this person with special needs.
Also, the steps into the airplane are usually limited to 365 pounds and the seats are designed for a 170 pound person. What if that passenger claims he/she is of normal size when booking the seat but shows up and he/she weighs 300+ pounds. And you have 7 passengers already checked in for the flight in a Navajo. Tough decisions.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Well said Frosti.
Your need to "extra size" your Mc Donalds meal isn't an excuse why your fat ass cannot sit in that seat.
As a purveyor of free flights, I got what I paid for, but sitting on a Red Eye to Newark beside two obese adults really tests my limits of patience.
Your need to "extra size" your Mc Donalds meal isn't an excuse why your fat ass cannot sit in that seat.
As a purveyor of free flights, I got what I paid for, but sitting on a Red Eye to Newark beside two obese adults really tests my limits of patience.
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Semper Fidelis
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Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
I flew from YYZ to Dubai with a man's flubber resting on me and it got incredibly warm (13+ hours of ewwwww). It was to the point where I couldn't put my tray down. The guy gets up so I immediately put my tray down, and he just rested his girth on my tray when he came back. I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown and strangle the guy.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
The airline screwed up big time. If I was flight crew on this flight I would sit that dude's bum down in a jump seat and said NOTHING to anyone. I'm sure the guy would have been thrilled to get the rare opportunity and everyone would have been happy.
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
I have a close friend who travels all the time. He is 6'4" and 440 lbs. He travels on Westjet on a fairly regular basis. He has no problem paying for 2 seats and advises them of his size and weight when he books. He and his wife get all 3 seats and they travel comfortably without disturbing the rights of "average" sized people.
Bottom line, if your a fat ass, then pay for the extra seat OR stop your midnight McDonalds drive thru binges. One or the other. It drives me crazy to hear of some fat ass that sued an airline successfully. I believe TC should come up with a weight that is a "non exceed" weight...say anyone over 275 LBS will be required to purchase 2 seats.
My 2 cents.
Fly safe all.
Bottom line, if your a fat ass, then pay for the extra seat OR stop your midnight McDonalds drive thru binges. One or the other. It drives me crazy to hear of some fat ass that sued an airline successfully. I believe TC should come up with a weight that is a "non exceed" weight...say anyone over 275 LBS will be required to purchase 2 seats.
My 2 cents.
Fly safe all.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
If you can't fit into a seat, can you fit through an overwing emergency exit?
"Then from 1000 ft AGL until the final capture altitude, the A/C accelerates backwards up along the altitude profile with idle thrust"
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
If you weigh double, or triple the average passenger weight, it becomes a weight and balance issue as well. If you weigh two people, pay for two seats.
I had a flight two days ago wherei could not control my tv because some mans blubber was nicely folded over the arm to my side. But as a jumpseater, it is not my place to complain.
With a population that keeps getting fatter, it is time for the government to take the appropriate steps for safety and comfort.
I had a flight two days ago wherei could not control my tv because some mans blubber was nicely folded over the arm to my side. But as a jumpseater, it is not my place to complain.
With a population that keeps getting fatter, it is time for the government to take the appropriate steps for safety and comfort.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
So let me get this straight frosti. Obese people are useless?
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
So what happens if you're 6'5", 295 lbs; and have no problems sitting in the seat without an extender, or spilling into the next seat? Having flown on PC-12's, Beech 1900's, Dash 8's, ATR's, CRJ-300's; it's never been an issue. The only plane that is the bane of my existence is the Metro.flyinthebug wrote: I believe TC should come up with a weight that is a "non exceed" weight...say anyone over 275 LBS will be required to purchase 2 seats. My 2 cents. Fly safe all.
I have no issues paying for the extra room, but if i fit why should I? Is this discussion on weight or size?
"A good traveller has no fixed plan and is not intent on arriving." -Lao Tzu
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Well, now, that would require independent thought, and initiative - which would have solved the problem. However, once some office jobsworth heard about what had happened, there would have been all sorts of trouble, disciplinary action, etc...CID wrote:The airline screwed up big time. If I was flight crew on this flight I would sit that dude's bum down in a jump seat and said NOTHING to anyone. I'm sure the guy would have been thrilled to get the rare opportunity and everyone would have been happy.

Not worth it for the frontline staff to think outside the box.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
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Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Size. Don't get me wrong, I know some massive, MUSCULAR, dudes who are considered overweight by technical standards. There is a difference between a fat lard and a naturally big person who takes care of themselves. In this case we are talking about airline seats which are built for your average-sized person. Flying is not a right, it's a privilege. If you are huge, because you are obese or muscularly big, it is YOUR responsibility not to annoy your fellow air travellers.Grey_Wolf wrote:So what happens if you're 6'5", 295 lbs; Is this discussion on weight or size?
That is for another discussion all together.+TSRAGR wrote:So let me get this straight frosti. Obese people are useless?
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Flying in this case is most certainly not a "privilege" it is a service that is being provided to a customer that has paid for it.
If your lover gained 250 Lbs. for whatever reason and became a "fat lard" would you tell him that he was a "wasteful and useless member of society"?
If your lover gained 250 Lbs. for whatever reason and became a "fat lard" would you tell him that he was a "wasteful and useless member of society"?
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Really, having him stand was a better solution? Send a flight attendant to the cockpit for takeoff/landing, if you don't want to allow him in the cockpit, and let the passenger have one of their seats.Living 5500ASL wrote:As the flight was filled to capacity, and as passengers are not permitted to sit in the flight attendants' jump seats,
But but but... the rules say...
I can imagine the (justifiable) lawsuit and settlement had they hit turbulence and bounced him around too much while he was standing, complying with the regulation not to use a flight attendant's seat.
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
It is a size issue. I should have been more clear, rather than throw out a random #. In this instance, you should only have to pay for one seat. As frosti said, it wouldnt be for reasonably fit (larger than "normal") people who fit in their seats. I was referring to the 5'6" 275 lbs guy/gal. You should in no way be charged for being bigger than an average size person. As long as you fit, you should not have to pay. That said, I do NOT agree with frosti that all obese people are useless. That is just an ignorant statement.Grey_Wolf wrote:So what happens if you're 6'5", 295 lbs; and have no problems sitting in the seat without an extender, or spilling into the next seat? Having flown on PC-12's, Beech 1900's, Dash 8's, ATR's, CRJ-300's; it's never been an issue. The only plane that is the bane of my existence is the Metro.flyinthebug wrote: I believe TC should come up with a weight that is a "non exceed" weight...say anyone over 275 LBS will be required to purchase 2 seats. My 2 cents. Fly safe all.
I have no issues paying for the extra room, but if i fit why should I? Is this discussion on weight or size?
Its simple...if you take up one seat, you pay for one seat. If you take up more than 1 seat you pay for 2. I think that is a fair approach.
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
Because you should have a sense of respect for the other passengers who are sitting within 3 inches of you. I should not be uncomfortable nor squashed due to your personal resignation on the matter. I should not be uncomfortable because the airline refuses to enforce such procedures. All I can say is at flight ends, it is not going to be "my" problem.Grey_Wolf wrote:So what happens if you're 6'5", 295 lbs; and have no problems sitting in the seat without an extender, or spilling into the next seat? Having flown on PC-12's, Beech 1900's, Dash 8's, ATR's, CRJ-300's; it's never been an issue. The only plane that is the bane of my existence is the Metro.flyinthebug wrote: I believe TC should come up with a weight that is a "non exceed" weight...say anyone over 275 LBS will be required to purchase 2 seats. My 2 cents. Fly safe all.
I have no issues paying for the extra room, but if i fit why should I? Is this discussion on weight or size?
Correct, you agree to all that wonderful fine print which nobody reads when they purchase their seat. You pay for "ONE" seat. One does not mean 3 because you happen to have have no self respect. Common sense really, if your lard occupies 2 seats, you pay for two. You are not paying for 2 for the hell of it. You have that much more MASS, it costs more to keep the plane aloft, hell the person will probably eat 5x more. How about the person beside you? Of course, screw them. It's all about "me" .+TSRAGR wrote:Flying in this case is most certainly not a "privilege" it is a service that is being provided to a customer that has paid for it.
If your lover gained 250 Lbs. for whatever reason and became a "fat lard" would you tell him that he was a "wasteful and useless member of society"?
If you do not fit in the bloody seat , you should buy 2. If you cannot fit in 2, you should not be allowed to fly. This type of person is a hazard to flight safety and a nuisance to those around them.
Though, I have always had a great deal of respect for those who book two seats ahead , get their seat belt extension, and so on. As opposed to those who argue otherwise and look for any available reason to "indulge" on other peoples rights.
This this attitude I cannot stand - that because " I " purchased a ticket, one is entitled to do whatever the hell he or she pleases? You think that buying a ticket gives you the right to literally breach someone else' personal space and hell , maybe even be a hazard on the aircraft?
Look, this man is definitely the victim.
http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploa ... rplane.jpg
How about someone whose ass / gut smells like sour crout with a hint of body odour ? Is that also my problem or should the airlines have a right to step in? I think they should have a right to step in for the sake of everyone's well being.
Last edited by B_Boomer_54 on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
+TSRAGR wrote:lover
That is just gross. People who have any sort of self-respect wouldn't let themselves get in that position. It's time for society to start pushing these fat-asses off the couches and out of their fast food diets. Canada needs to adopt a fat law, similar to what Japan has, it's time to reverse the obesity epidemic.250 Lbs.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
I think everyone agrees that obese people who occupy more than their share should pay more. But how do the small commuters with the Turbo Dildos and 1900's handle people in a wheel chair. Now, it is not their fault they are in a wheelchair but how is that situation handled.
What got me thinking was a reality TV program I saw whereby they had to transport a morbidly obese person to the fat farm. This guy weighed almost 1000 pounds. They had to tear down a wall to get him out of his bedroom and they loaded him into a Metro through the cargo door. What do we do with the supersize people? Do we just let then die because there is no way to transport them? If a supersize person living in Iqaluit has a heart attack, how do they get them to a cardiac hospital.
I survived a heart attack because I lived in a townhouse 3 blocks away from the ambulance station and was rushed to one of Canada's leading cardiac hospitals.
By the By and getting off the subject, if anyone is contemplating a heart attack, Calgary is the best place in Canada to have it. The Foothills Hospital is a world leader. Next to Calgary, Edmonton is also has a world renowned University hospital.
What got me thinking was a reality TV program I saw whereby they had to transport a morbidly obese person to the fat farm. This guy weighed almost 1000 pounds. They had to tear down a wall to get him out of his bedroom and they loaded him into a Metro through the cargo door. What do we do with the supersize people? Do we just let then die because there is no way to transport them? If a supersize person living in Iqaluit has a heart attack, how do they get them to a cardiac hospital.
I survived a heart attack because I lived in a townhouse 3 blocks away from the ambulance station and was rushed to one of Canada's leading cardiac hospitals.
By the By and getting off the subject, if anyone is contemplating a heart attack, Calgary is the best place in Canada to have it. The Foothills Hospital is a world leader. Next to Calgary, Edmonton is also has a world renowned University hospital.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
If you have to pay for two seats does that entitle you to two in-flight meals?if your lard occupies 2 seats, you pay for two.
Just wondering.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
I would give a qualified yes to that question. The problems being of course, that two meals is probably what got you into that situation in the first place! The second issue, it seems most of the airlines are making you pay for your "meals" as an extra; so of course you're entitled to buy two!photofly wrote:If you have to pay for two seats does that entitle you to two in-flight meals?
Just wondering.

Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
maybe we need to have a seat mockup, similar to the carry on "all your carry on must fit in here rack" at the check in counter. I believe that southwest will allow you to buy the extra seat at half the price of your fare when available at check in.
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
There's a legal concept called "defence of necessity" in the law which permits one to break a law (e.g. put a pax in FA's seat) when to not do so creates a greater risk (pax strolling the aisle all flight).Really, having him stand was a better solution? Send a flight attendant to the cockpit for takeoff/landing, if you don't want to allow him in the cockpit, and let the passenger have one of their seats.
But but but... the rules say...
I'm with those that say if you're too big to fit into one seat, buy a second one.
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Re: Man stands throughout 7-hour flight
The Japanese government’s waistline limits are 33.5 inches for men and 35.4 inches for women. Good luck with that.frosti wrote:+TSRAGR wrote:loverThat is just gross. People who have any sort of self-respect wouldn't let themselves get in that position. It's time for society to start pushing these fat-asses off the couches and out of their fast food diets. Canada needs to adopt a fat law, similar to what Japan has, it's time to reverse the obesity epidemic.250 Lbs.