WestJet Starts Regional

[xsbank]

Buying 40 new turboprops to fly to smaller communities. Jazz and their ancient Dash' are probably a bit fussed this morning... Should mean a swack of jobs - yay!

[JMACK]

Where did you read this??

Please post a link!

Cheers.........Jim

[Sleeve of Wizard]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... le2303760/

[atpilot]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/W ... story.html

[Rudy]

I thought WestJet was a regional.

[JMACK]

I thought WestJet was a regional.

Well the world is shrinking. I guess Hawaii and the Carib are kinda regionalish!

Cheers.....J

[ZBBYLW]

It would be great to see them keep it in house. WS is a pretty clean cut/efficient airline as it is. If they just adjust the pay groups for the Q400 to be "market value" I don't see it being much of an issue. Hopefully that would not create tension between two pilot groups (the jet group vs prop). It would be nice for those F/Os right now who see a very long time to command.

[crazy_aviator]

KEEP the airlines seperate BECAUSE of the fact that employees are notoriously self centred and will demand daddy westjet conditions and wages immediately from the start-up airline !!

[KAG]

Is it really a start up or an evolution...In house

[Localizer]

The original poster made it sound like an order has already been placed. They still use the words "considering, potentially in the plan, seeking input" .. to me, it still sounds like a distant possiblity. Also, if your a Westjet pilot this statement can't give you that warm fuzzy feeling.

“Our single fleet of Boeings will be joined by a sister company operating a single fleet of turboprops to maintain maximum efficiencies for both airlines.” - Clive Beddoe

Its starting to sound like Air Canada and Jazz all over again .. just in a westerly setting.

[yycflyguy]

The original poster made it sound like an order has already been placed. They still use the words "considering, potentially in the plan, seeking input" .. to me, it still sounds like a distant possiblity. Also, if your a Westjet pilot this statement can't give you that warm fuzzy feeling.

“Our single fleet of Boeings will be joined by a sister company operating a single fleet of turboprops to maintain maximum efficiencies for both airlines.” - Clive Beddoe

Its starting to sound like Air Canada and Jazz all over again .. just in a westerly setting.

Yup. My thoughts exactly. I posted the following questions in the WJ section.

1. What scope protections does the association have to prevent moving 737's to the newly established "regional" airline for less money?
2. Will there be a flow through agreement?
3. Will there be a flow back agreement?
4. Will the regional airline be based in YYC as well? Hard to imagine 50 Q400s or ATRs serving only Alberta/BC/Sask
5. Will the WAWCON be the same at both airlines?
6. Will a Capt on the Q400 make more than a 737 FO?
7. Will there be a limit as to training between the two types?

It's my cynical nature, but if I am a WJ pilot this is NOT a good thing.

[Human Factor]

WestProp... has a nice ring to it.

[SAR_YQQ]

If they just adjust the pay groups for the Q400 to be "market value"

What is market value between a glass equipped turbo-prop and likewise equipped 737? Jets are easier to fly than turbo-props, they fly above the weather and are more forgiving. Shouldn't Q400 drivers in that sense get paid more - since the market value for them flying is higher? Why do we place a higher value on jet vice props? I've flown both and quite frankly find props more challenging.

[ZBBYLW]

I think the 737 should be paid more. Both can be hard to fly, the Jet can be harder to put down on a short wet runway if your not careful. Not only that, you create more revenue and kill more people if you screw the pooch. I don't think status pay would work because it would take the current pay and decrease it across the board. Even drinking koolaid that would be a hard sell.

[JZA]

Buying 40 new turboprops...Should mean a swack of jobs - yay!

... It may well in the short term ... But unless the population of Canada magically sky rockets simultaneously it will eventually lead to reduced load factors, which will lead to fare wars, which will lead to reduced yields, and ultimately some carriers won't make it and we will be back to square one. We have been down this road before...Can you say AC/WS merger?

[Nark]

I think the 737 should be paid more. Both can be hard to fly, the Jet can be harder to put down on a short wet runway if your not careful. Not only that, you create more revenue and kill more people if you screw the pooch. I don't think status pay would work because it would take the current pay and decrease it across the board. Even drinking koolaid that would be a hard sell.

Sadly this is the point.

Down here in the US, Colgan crashed killed 50+ people because of pilot error. Congress got involved and the Flight and Duty regulations are (Will) change.
What is truly sad; a 747 cargo plane carrying 2-3 pilots, is forgotten about. (UPS in KSA).

Freight pilots are impenetrable, I guess...

[Panama Jack]

Maybe they will opt for a 3rd option-- Status Pay.

At my company all pilots are paid the same base pay regardless on whether they are sitting on the Embraer 170 or the Airbus A340. The only thing that changes that is 1) years of service, 2) right or left seat, and 3) block hours flown/time away from base.

[Big Pistons Forever]

WestProp... has a nice ring to it.

How about Time Air ?

[The Mole]

With the possibility of the world with Canada not far behind, heading into a recession or depression. It would seem wise to plan for a finacial disaster. People will still fly, just in smaller number. Having a fleet of smaller, efficient planes, could be a very wise move on westjets part.

[undashflyer]

Funny, I was just in SYD/MEL the other day and saw the newly added 'Virgin Australia' ATR-72.

This is a 10 year wet-lease LOA with another company to do certain routes formerly handled by the mainline jet aircraft. Can't fill the 737/EMB in a destination but know it's a steady money making destination? Get a smaller airplane.

[ZBBYLW]

Maybe they will opt for a 3rd option-- Status Pay.

Problem with Status pay in this case if implemented similar to Jazz is the fact everyone who is currently there will take a pay cut. Say the going rate for a Q400 skipper is 75K and 150K for a 737 captain. If they have 100 737s and bring in 50 Q400s the pay would drop by about 37.5K a year across the board. Now this is overly simplistic and does not take into account much other than just theory and pay groups that I just pulled out of my arse. The end of the day though it would be a very tough sell. On the other hand if WS were to be buying 757s or 787s everyone pay would rise so it would be a much easier sell.

[Disco Stu]

So race to the bottom at WJ Regional?

wholly owned subsidiary, separate OC and list
Pilots will earn 80% of regional industry median (80% of Jazz, Porter, Hawkair, Perimeter, North Cariboo)
Flow through to mainline at 4 to 1 ratio with off the street
Mainline to Regional and back once in a career but go to year 1 payscale and conditions of the regional, so poverty wages and no guarantee to get back to mainline unless a "spot" opens up
Mainline block hour and fin guarantee of 2012 levels going forward but can change due to "economic uncertainty"
Only eligible for 10% ESP vs 20% at mainline
employee pays 50% of benefits vs 30% at mainline
Profit sharing same as at mainline
In event of layoff at mainline you bump down into regional

80% of regional median? Are you serious?

I hope the WJPA says no to this in a BIG way.

[ZBBYLW]

So race to the bottom at WJ Regional?

wholly owned subsidiary, separate OC and list
Pilots will earn 80% of regional industry median (80% of Jazz, Porter, Hawkair, Perimeter, North Cariboo)
Flow through to mainline at 4 to 1 ratio with off the street
Mainline to Regional and back once in a career but go to year 1 payscale and conditions of the regional, so poverty wages and no guarantee to get back to mainline unless a "spot" opens up
Mainline block hour and fin guarantee of 2012 levels going forward but can change due to "economic uncertainty"
Only eligible for 10% ESP vs 20% at mainline
employee pays 50% of benefits vs 30% at mainline
Profit sharing same as at mainline
In event of layoff at mainline you bump down into regional

80% of regional median? Are you serious?

I hope the WJPA says no to this in a BIG way.

I hope this is a joke Disco Stu, if you are joking please let us in on it. If this is serious I am disapointed. WS seemed to be the one company out there that actually cared about it's employee base. I bet you that the ramp guys/gate agents will not earn less while working a Q400 flight let alone 80% of the industry standard wage. I find it funny how they will pay you 80% of industry standard but yet make you pay 50% of the group benefits. Laughable at best. Perhaps SkyRegional would be able to work for 20% less than this so AC does more flying through them. What a joke.

[TopperHarley]

Growing pains are inevitable, no company is immune to it. WJ is just like any other airline out there. These kinds of issues have plagued every company that has gone through something similar.

People talk about SWA and how it seems to be the rosiest place in the world to work, but right now they're going through a merge with AirTran and are having difficulties trying to integrate both companies.

It's naive to think that your company is the best there is and that management (not necessarily the CP, but moreso the BOD and investors) share the same interests as you do. Their #1 priority is to make sure they remain profitable, and they will often do whatever it takes to achieve this goal. If they have to layoff pilots or give out concessions, so be it, they'll do it without losing any sleep.

[Beefitarian]

Wasn't that how they started up with the 737 operation? The pilots were paid minimum wage plus shares. The "real" pilots at the other carriers laughed at them for being ripped off so bad. Eventually the original west jet pilots were all millionares and the wages for the newer guys climbed up until they got to where they are at today?