PC12 Question

[Doc]

For all you PC12 drivers out there.
What speeds do you guys usually use on approach? Say, from ten miles final? FAF final? Final approach speed? Do you stick to company "profile" speeds? If you're "hot and high" (we've all been there) is the PC12 too "slick" to scrub off speed quickly?

I've followed a few, and sometimes it works out just fine, but sometimes it's like following a 150 with a headwind. I have no idea what to expect.

Cheers

[Salt]

The aircraft itself is quite flexible regarding approach speeds and profiles. Its largely dependant on the company sops and / or pilot. If trying to accommodate traffic or Atc, its pretty easy to maintain 199 ias up to a 4 mile final. However the following are the speeds I typically use:
- 200+ up to 10 miles.
- 170 approaching the faf.
- if IMC, gear and flaps configured, and 120 - 130ias at the faf inbound.
- if visual, 140 - 150 ias up to a mile final.
- usually over the numbers at 100 ias.

Following a PC-12 on departure will typically be painful, as its usually doing between 130 - 150 on the climb out.

What is typical for the B200?

Cheers

[AllClutch]

The 12 has lots of flap and a reasonably high vlo. If you put it into ground idle you'll have no problem dumping speed real fast if you needed too.

[AUGER9]

- 200+ up to 10 miles.
- 170 approaching the faf.
- if IMC, gear and flaps configured, and 120 - 130ias at the faf inbound.
- if visual, 140 - 150 ias up to a mile final.
- usually over the numbers at 100 ias.

Cheers

Pretty much. Vref with 15 flap is 98. Height and speed can be dumped pretty quick if needed. 120 faf final is more sop, but generally what Salt said.

[FL280]

As a rule I usually tend to be a little high and fast. Way easier to trade altitude and airspeed in case the one fan quits. It's quite easy to lose 30 to 40 kts at a mile or less final if you bring the power back and go 40 on the flap. Not uncommon to do this if ATC asks us to keep the speed up as best we can.

Solid IMC is a little different, especially to really low minimums, but again, add 5-10 kts on approach speed and it's easy to lose it once you hit mimimums. It's a greasy airplane at times but nothing anyone with a few hours at it can't figure out, in my opinion anyways.

[Doc]

Pretty much the numbers I was expecting. Followed one in yesterday that for some reason had it slowed right back all the way in? It was a brightly coloured airplane. Don't know why he was "hanging it on the prop.."? keeping the speed "up" is just good airmanship when you "know" you're holding up the "works"? So is cancelling IFR when you can?
On the 200, I like to be 150 -160 anywhere inside 10 miles. Helps the auto pilot fly the loc and slope. I'm really lazy. Ask anyone.
Question: From your sim training on the PC12, what speed would you maintain on a GS to ensure a safe landing if the stove quit? Assuming a fairly "normal" 8-10 knot head wind? Can it be done, or do you maintain a dot above?

[Doc]

As a rule I usually tend to be a little high and fast. Way easier to trade altitude and airspeed in case the one fan quits. It's quite easy to lose 30 to 40 kts at a mile or less final if you bring the power back and go 40 on the flap. Not uncommon to do this if ATC asks us to keep the speed up as best we can.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hence the question.

[FL280]

The sim being what it is isn't totally accurate but from what we are trained to at SimCom, on slope, gear and flaps out to 15, speed at 120 kts, once it fails, cutoff/feather, get the gear and flaps back up and pitch it up to maintain best glide speed (116 KIAS at max gross) and gain a few hundred feet, hold the gear until you figure you got your 12 seconds to get it down (or not depending if you'd rather land gear up or take it into the side of a cliff). From what we do in Florida it can be done, usually with altitude to spare. Unless you complete screw the pooch and mess up on engine failure procedures then you're guaranteed to almost make the runway. Like our Engine Failure After takeoff stuff we practice, realistically from 700 - 800 feet up we can 180 it back to the departure runway. It is a good glider, one of the few saving graces to this aircrat.

[Salt]

Question: From your sim training on the PC12, what speed would you maintain on a GS to ensure a safe landing if the stove quit? Assuming a fairly "normal" 8-10 knot head wind? Can it be done, or do you maintain a dot above?

The engine-out, feathered, clean descent profile of the PC-12 is 4-1, so you would have to maintain full (high) deflection on the GS, especially given a headwind.

[toelessjoe]

I have 2000 hrs. on the old pielateye (give or take), what are these "numbers" and "speeds" of which you speak?

Barber pole til 2 mile final, reef, drop stuff, drop more stuff, land in approx. 13 feet. At least that's what all the kids I flew with liked to do


Cheers,


Toeless.

p.s. Doc, don't be hatin' the single fans, you got a 208 ride comin' up! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[BE20 Driver]

What is typical for the B200?

Cheers

It has been a few years since I was actually driving a b200 but I used to be able to set the power through 10, 000 ft and not touch it until the flare. IIRC, I used to do Barberpole until 10k (torque about 11-1200 ftlb per side), 250 until blo 3000 agl w/i 10 nm of the airport, at 7 nm I would drop approach flap. I would slow to 150 as per SOP until on approach slowing to 120 in the approach. Speeds went high 3-5 nm out depending on wind and flaps full when field made. VREF was 100. Had to pull off about 1-200 ftlb torque in the flare. Made for a greaser every time.

[planeless]

I have 2000 hrs. on the old pielateye (give or take), what are these "numbers" and "speeds" of which you speak?

Barber pole til 2 mile final, reef, drop stuff, drop more stuff, land in approx. 13 feet. At least that's what all the kids I flew with liked to do


toelessjoe I thought that was SOP?

[Hawkerflyer]

The 12 has lots of flap and a reasonably high vlo. If you put it into ground idle you'll have no problem dumping speed real fast if you needed too.

Is this a practiced maneuverer Clutch? If you need to move the condition lever to ground idle to slow down a PC12 you have issues. Might want to stay clear of jets.

Note, after landing #1.

PCXII Checklist

Final:
1. Runway:......................................................Clear
2. Final approach: ...................100-120 KIAS - 150 flaps
3. Runway threshold: ...............80-100 KIAS - 30 or 400
4. Landing Gear: ...........................................3 Green
5. Flaps: ................................................As Required
6. Yaw Damper: ...................................................Off
After Landing:
1. Condition Lever: ..................................Ground Idle
2. Trims: ............................................Reset to Green
3. Flaps: .............................................................Up
4. Windshield Heat: .............................................Off
5. Probes:..........................................................Off
6. Strobes: .........................................................Off
7. Landing/Recog Lights: .....................................Off

[Doc]

I don't care what the lawyers wrote on the checklist. What speed do YOU use? Say, from the FAF until the runway is made? 120 over the FAF, the engine calfs.....you're in the weeds. Lovely checklist.....if you believe in that sort of thing.

[AllClutch]

!

[Doc]

p.s. Doc, don't be hatin' the single fans, you got a 208 ride comin' up! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Still remember the day I was a scooting along at 11500 feet across the south side of Superior, while you were bouncing along down at 2500 feet trying to maintain VFR in the mighty ninety!

[Hawkerflyer]

Ps I'd like to see hawkerflyer get his jet into some of my strips btw.

burned again!