Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr 13

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skybaron
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Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr 13

Post by skybaron »

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... ilots.html

Big Rouge dives further down the shitter.
Air Canada began cancelling departing flights early today amid reports that some pilots were expected to call in sick in protest.

By 7:45 a.m. ET, about 30 flights had been cancelled, mainly to Canadian destinations, an Air Canada spokesman said. Seven flights each were listed as cancelled at Toronto's Pearson Internation Airport and Montreal's Trudeau airport.

Air Canada and Jazz warned travellers that flights all day Friday may be delayed or cancelled.

"It appears a small group of pilots are engaged in an illegal job action," said Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick. "There's been a higher than normal level of pilots calling in sick — and as a result we've had to cancel some flights today."

The Air Canada Pilots Association, which represents 3,000 pilots, was urging members to report to work and ignore “a small group” of pilots who want colleagues to call in sick to show dissatisfaction with management, according to reports.

The pilots are unhappy with management after contract talks broke down. Last month, the federal government referred Air Canada's two labour disputes to the Canada Industrial Relations Board, a move that prevents a work stoppage.

Fitzpatrick said "the vast majority of pilots" were showing up for work. "There's just a small group today that has decided to engage in this illegal activity."

On an average day, he said, the airline has about 1,500 flights. "So it's confined. But nonetheless, it does cause disruption for our customers and we're working hard to get people to their destination as soon as possible."
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Beach 200
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Beach 200 »

Why in the hell did Jazz get mentioned? It's not their pilots who are involved in this mini strike, nor would Jazz flights be affected.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by LegoMan »

Those pilots performing illegal job strike should be heavily fined or fired. This is unacceptable! Your customers are the ones that pay your wages and if you treat them like this they will go to your competitor. Pilots are obviously not very smart and they should start teaching some business 101 to these morons. My company travel department sent an email this morning that they are no longer going to be using Air Canada and since WestJet travels to all of our 12 branches they will now be the priority carrier. Our travel department books more than 2400 trips per year...do the math on that one Air Canada! I'm sure many companies are planning on doing the same.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Canoehead »

Beach 200 wrote:Why in the hell did Jazz get mentioned? It's not their pilots who are involved in this mini strike, nor would Jazz flights be affected.
Jazz flights can definitely be affected. Several pairings (planned or unplanned- ie: reserve) involve deadheading crews on mainline flights. Training events can also be affected which in-turn can mess with the operation.
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Slappy the Squirrel
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Slappy the Squirrel »

Bad situation there. I agree that in general terms it is poor business sense to book off sick in large numbers to get back at the company you work for because then your company loses business. But following that train of thought it would never make sense for any group to ever go on strike... I think the employees there feel like they've taken enough bullcrap from the company, and have not had any success in the past when working with upper management so they're trying a different approach.

Will it work out for them? Probably not. Air Canada as we know it is most likely doomed. But you're better off going down guns ablazin' then sitting back and watching passively as executives screw you over! All the same, this could just be a publicity stunt by the company to turn the public against the unions, and not a high number of sick calls as claimed...
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Fulcrum29 »

LegoMan wrote:Those pilots performing illegal job strike should be heavily fined or fired. This is unacceptable! Your customers are the ones that pay your wages and if you treat them like this they will go to your competitor. Pilots are obviously not very smart and they should start teaching some business 101 to these morons. My company travel department sent an email this morning that they are no longer going to be using Air Canada and since WestJet travels to all of our 12 branches they will now be the priority carrier. Our travel department books more than 2400 trips per year...do the math on that one Air Canada! I'm sure many companies are planning on doing the same.
hmmn, there is no proof of any illegal job strike. Fatigued, stressed, or sick pilots have all the rights to call in sick if they feel that they are unfit to fly.

Using your argument about educating pilots about business, you could also argue that general public is largely uneducated of the "fit to fly" requirements of a pilot and safety and the effects of Stress on the flight crew. And I'm sure that your company travel department expects the safest flying services.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Pilot X »

We will not be ignored brothers and sisters. Stay strong.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Canoehead »

LegoMan wrote:Pilots are obviously not very smart and they should start teaching some business 101 to these morons.
Kind of a broad statement to make don't you think?
Two things to consider:

1) This stuff has been inevitable since the day Lisa Raitt said 'no'.

2) There are many complexities to this issue and emotions run deep. Their union is fractured and management knows it. The decision to take a stand (today) is not one that comes easy to the group- no doubt they have considered being fined or fired, long before you ever did. I have friends who are personally involved, and while I think that ACPA as a whole has miscalculated on many levels, I can tell you that my friends are very smart, and are not morons. They agonize over this constantly, and they do know that it affects the customers.

I feel for those customers affected, and I feel for the pilots who have been thrown between a rock and a hard place. It's days like today when my decision years ago to stay away from AC (as a career) is reaffirmed in my mind.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by CanadianEh »

LegoMan wrote:Those pilots performing illegal job strike should be heavily fined or fired. This is unacceptable!
You know what else is unacceptable? This sham of a democracy we have. What else are they supposed to do when all their rights have been taken away? Not to mention this arbitration has some of the most distasteful clauses I have ever seen.

Basically the arbitrator will pick between what ACPA offered or what the company offered, no middle ground. AND there will be no appeal.

WTF is that? No appeal? Is this North Korea?

I say good for them, at least some people are taking a stand for this profession. :prayer: :prayer: :prayer:
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Post by Beefitarian »

I agree with slappy. This like any strike style action is a desperate last resort.

In my opinion it's too bad the only other company for an AirCanada pilot to turn to is so different. It seems like it would not be an option for most of them. Once AirCanada finally gets rid of the union working conditions will only get worse for everyone in the industry. Make a note of that.

I realize they have had it good but it's tough to lose what you are used to. I think it is also wrong while the execs keep getting rather large bonuses at the same time. Makes it hard for me to believe there needs to be reductions at the workers level.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by North Shore »

All the same, this could just be a publicity stunt by the company to turn the public against the unions, and not a high number of sick calls as claimed...
This is one possibility - anyone "in the know" about normal #'s of cancellations or sick calls for that matter?

Don't think that it really matters at this point, though - I'd like to think that I'm a little bit better educated/informed about this issue than the general public, and the first thing I heard on the news this morning was that AC was cancelling flights due to a 'sick-out' by some pilots. That message is out there now, and it will be very difficult to change even if the truth is quite different.

The other possibility is that it is happening as reported, in which case this:
My company travel department sent an email this morning that they are no longer going to be using Air Canada and since WestJet travels to all of our 12 branches they will now be the priority carrier.
happens, and the company and its associated jobs takes another (lower) circle around the bowl...


This whole saga is painful to watch.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by BverLuver »

LegoMan wrote:Those pilots performing illegal job strike should be heavily fined or fired. This is unacceptable! Your customers are the ones that pay your wages and if you treat them like this they will go to your competitor. Pilots are obviously not very smart and they should start teaching some business 101 to these morons. My company travel department sent an email this morning that they are no longer going to be using Air Canada and since WestJet travels to all of our 12 branches they will now be the priority carrier. Our travel department books more than 2400 trips per year...do the math on that one Air Canada! I'm sure many companies are planning on doing the same.
LegoMan,

This is exactly he point I tried to make in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=80394&start=0

But the arrogance of certain pilots tried to lead everyone to believe that companies needed them and we wouldn't go to other airlines. We are just insignificant customers, read it, they tell us so. To go as far as calling them morons is a bit far, but this was a very poorly calculated move on the part of some.

I do upwards of 50-75 return trips in any given year mainly to locations served by WestJet and Air Canada and have flown with WestJet for every one of them in the last few weeks. Prior to that, every trip was on Air Canada. It's been a complete reversal in traveling experience to say the least. I, like most business travellers, value service, comfort, confidence that there will not be any disruption in my plans and schedule well ahead of price, as my business depends 100% on this travel, but many pilots seem to believe price will always win out and we will come crawling back to them. I hope I never have To fly on AC again as that will be the only way I ever get on a single AC flight again! You guys are just solidifying my reserve. Once again, who runs the ACPA public relations? I have never seen a complete failure like this in a long time. Happy Trails!

BL
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by True North »

"Air Canada began cancelling departing flights early today amid reports that some pilots were expected to call in sick in protest."

Does this not strike anyone else as just a bit suspisious? Have any pilots actually called in sick?

Sounds much more like a convenient way to cancel a bunch of flights with low load factors and blame the pilots. Briliant strategy actually. You really have to give it to AC management, they have taken negotiating in public to a whole new level. :snakeman:
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by LegoMan »

Taking a stand for your profession is one thing. Doing something illegal harming other peoples lively good is selfish and stupid. You are harming the very customers that put food on your table. Pilots in general would have public support but when they do things like this, it's very hard to feel sympathetic to their awful plight.

If I was an owner of an air carrier I would not hire a single Air Canada pilot once this operation goes tits up. For all I know they are going to coming marching like they are sent from Heaven to save us and start up a union and drive my customers away. I would think hard about what these pilots are doing because the next flying job they have to take may not be in Canada.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by 126.7_STFU »

Legoman,

How would you propose they protest then? Give a speech mid flight 25-30 minutes? Hell maybe even talk to them the entire flight, make sure the com is up full blast so nobody can tune it out?

I find it fascinating that the main stream is reporting everything BUT the pilots perspective. It almost seems like they are bought by the fools making their nice retention bonus'. I think any reasonable person would look at what's going in and say it's not right. I like a few others, have no interest hearing about "others willing to work there for less", because lets be honest,this very same attitude has already left a lasting indent on this industry. Why should Air Canada pilots feel guilty about working for a great company that pays well and honours their service? Beats me. I'd be mad as hell if my trip was affected. By after digging in deeper I do sympathize.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Colonel Sanders »

The impression is that the pilots are living in the 1970's and are being woefully out-stick handled from a PR standpoint, by AC management.

If AC pilots have a real message to get out there, why don't they join the 21st century and make an entertaining yet informative Youtube video to get their message out? Hint - don't have Buzz Hargrove in it, ok?

If you insist on living in the 1970's, try newspaper ads.

I'd try to get some TV airtime, too. Rick Mercer or some other clown like that.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by BEFAN5 »

There are going to be a lot of unemployed people (pilots, fas, management) if this company doesn't get their S#it together. Public opinion of this company is at an all time low. All you are doing is giving Westjet free marketing.

There are many sides to this of course.... AC being the most top heavy ailine in North America, CEO's, getting multi-million bonus cheques... It makes me sick.

The only way for this company to make money is to boost fares.. Right, isn't that how airlines make money? How can you do that when another competitor seems to be doing just fine charging the same per leg in many cases.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by TopperHarley »

Colonel Sanders wrote:The impression is that the pilots are living in the 1970's and are being woefully out-stick handled from a PR standpoint, by AC management.

If AC pilots have a real message to get out there, why don't they join the 21st century and make an entertaining yet informative Youtube video to get their message out? Hint - don't have Buzz Hargrove in it, ok?

If you insist on living in the 1970's, try newspaper ads.

I'd try to get some TV airtime, too. Rick Mercer or some other clown like that.

I like the idea of making a viral video; however, it would be difficult finding enough pilots with a sense of humour to make it :rolleyes:
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Rockie »

BverLuver wrote:
LegoMan wrote:Those pilots performing illegal job strike should be heavily fined or fired. This is unacceptable! Your customers are the ones that pay your wages and if you treat them like this they will go to your competitor. Pilots are obviously not very smart and they should start teaching some business 101 to these morons. My company travel department sent an email this morning that they are no longer going to be using Air Canada and since WestJet travels to all of our 12 branches they will now be the priority carrier. Our travel department books more than 2400 trips per year...do the math on that one Air Canada! I'm sure many companies are planning on doing the same.
LegoMan,

This is exactly he point I tried to make in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=80394&start=0

But the arrogance of certain pilots tried to lead everyone to believe that companies needed them and we wouldn't go to other airlines. We are just insignificant customers, read it, they tell us so. To go as far as calling them morons is a bit far, but this was a very poorly calculated move on the part of some.

I do upwards of 50-75 return trips in any given year mainly to locations served by WestJet and Air Canada and have flown with WestJet for every one of them in the last few weeks. Prior to that, every trip was on Air Canada. It's been a complete reversal in traveling experience to say the least. I, like most business travellers, value service, comfort, confidence that there will not be any disruption in my plans and schedule well ahead of price, as my business depends 100% on this travel, but many pilots seem to believe price will always win out and we will come crawling back to them. I hope I never have To fly on AC again as that will be the only way I ever get on a single AC flight again! You guys are just solidifying my reserve. Once again, who runs the ACPA public relations? I have never seen a complete failure like this in a long time. Happy Trails!

BL
It's a wonder any pilots are sleeping well given Rovinescu's intention to eliminate our jobs. In the face of that I don't think anybody really cares about your opinion. There are bigger concerns right now.
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Last edited by Rockie on Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by BverLuver »

You at home sick today Rockie?

BL
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Rockie »

No, as a matter of fact I'm not. Are flying on Westjet today?
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by BverLuver »

No, that's tomorrow. Glad you have such a hatred of the people that give you a reason to go to work everyday, or call in sick, whichever floats your boat on any given day. It certainly puts my mind at ease when I pay for my WJ ticket.

BL
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Fulcrum29 »

LegoMan wrote:Taking a stand for your profession is one thing. Doing something illegal harming other peoples lively good is selfish and stupid. You are harming the very customers that put food on your table. Pilots in general would have public support but when they do things like this, it's very hard to feel sympathetic to their awful plight.

If I was an owner of an air carrier I would not hire a single Air Canada pilot once this operation goes tits up. For all I know they are going to coming marching like they are sent from Heaven to save us and start up a union and drive my customers away. I would think hard about what these pilots are doing because the next flying job they have to take may not be in Canada.
You want to talk about illegal choices?! Why is it legal to take away a right to strike from pilots?
Please try and justify that for us. - Why can't an honest, hard-working pilot have a basic right to strike if he is not happy?
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by Rockie »

BverLuver wrote:Glad you have such a hatred of the people that give you a reason to go to work everyday, or call in sick, whichever floats your boat on any given day. It certainly puts my mind at ease when I pay for my WJ ticket.
Why so sensitive? I certainly don't hate you or anybody else who gives me a reason to go to work and can't imagine why you would think that. It isn't about you however much you try to make it.

Enjoy your Westjet flight.
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Re: Air Canada cancels some flights amid pilot protest - Apr

Post by BverLuver »

Fulcrum29,

You make it too easy to make a joke. But the fact is this is no laughing matter and a lot of people have or had a lot invested in Air Canadas success. ILLEGAL job actions are not the way to ratchet support for the cause or lobby your position to the government/public. It will most likely have the very opposite effect, especially on this Conservative Government. It is very poor calculations and you keep moving backwards. It seems as though your union needs to think of a direction it wants to go and then go completely 180degrees from its conclusion and it will probably be the right way.

BL
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