Jammed yoke
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Jammed yoke
Hi guys!
Let's say we are flying a small single engine aircraft, we enter a normal left turn and when we reach the bank angle, we are unable to release the yoke back to neutral, it's jammed there. Can we overcome it? Is it a controllable situation if we use full opposite rudder? Can we stop the roll or the aicraft will keep rolling and in a few seconds we gonna crash? In a multi-engine I think you have one more option, that's asymmetric thrust, so it's a little easier to counteract the roll, but what about single engine scenario?
In think it's a barely controllable situation, I didn't find another one like this, maybe jammed yoke in pitch, but you can use the trim opposite way if your elevator is jammed, can you? Or the trim tab is too small to have any effect? And you also have power to pitch up.
If you know scenarios like the one above, I'm really curious to hear them, as I said, I didn't find others to be so close to an out of control sitation.
Thank you very much!
Let's say we are flying a small single engine aircraft, we enter a normal left turn and when we reach the bank angle, we are unable to release the yoke back to neutral, it's jammed there. Can we overcome it? Is it a controllable situation if we use full opposite rudder? Can we stop the roll or the aicraft will keep rolling and in a few seconds we gonna crash? In a multi-engine I think you have one more option, that's asymmetric thrust, so it's a little easier to counteract the roll, but what about single engine scenario?
In think it's a barely controllable situation, I didn't find another one like this, maybe jammed yoke in pitch, but you can use the trim opposite way if your elevator is jammed, can you? Or the trim tab is too small to have any effect? And you also have power to pitch up.
If you know scenarios like the one above, I'm really curious to hear them, as I said, I didn't find others to be so close to an out of control sitation.
Thank you very much!
Re: Jammed yoke
Well, on first blush I am dissapointed, as from the thread title I was hoping to find a solution to the continuing problem I have with removing the strawberry jam from the yoke.
I am not certain why you are thinking about this , but as every plane behaves differently, there maybe is not a general answer. So giving examples is not going to help you out.
It also might depend on the bank angle..A rate one turn in a small single is about 13-17 deg...much different to recover from than a 45 deg bank with rudder.
If you really want to know,you can however do this...Go up, put the plane into a bank and then just hold the control column there and see what you can do with power changes, trim, rudder etc....
I sometimes think some of you have way to much time on your hands to think up senerios. A bit like discussing how many teeth a horse has based on design and shape of its mouth when you can just go up and take a look. So help us all out here. Why would you be considering this?

I am not certain why you are thinking about this , but as every plane behaves differently, there maybe is not a general answer. So giving examples is not going to help you out.
It also might depend on the bank angle..A rate one turn in a small single is about 13-17 deg...much different to recover from than a 45 deg bank with rudder.
If you really want to know,you can however do this...Go up, put the plane into a bank and then just hold the control column there and see what you can do with power changes, trim, rudder etc....
I sometimes think some of you have way to much time on your hands to think up senerios. A bit like discussing how many teeth a horse has based on design and shape of its mouth when you can just go up and take a look. So help us all out here. Why would you be considering this?
Re: Jammed yoke
I'm asking about it because it seems to be a unique out of control situation and in my opinion it's not ok that you have nothing to do to overcome it. I'm still a student pilot, so I'm not able to do a test flight. The question was for a normal turn as we do in pattern, normal roll rate, nothing abnormal such as steep angle or fast roll rate. About the airplane, I fly a Cessna 172 and I'm thinking about scenarios like this to be prepared and know how to deal with them because I'm sure that it's better to know it before it happens.
Re: Jammed yoke
Andrew, have you got all the emergency response checklists for your airplane memorized? And understand completely why each and every step is there? Those checklists are there since the situations you would be responding to are the most likely kind of emergencies you might encounter with that aircraft type.
Sometimes, playing the "what if" game can get to be counterproductive as the imagined scenarios are so far from likely that they can seem a bit silly. It's good to be thinking and considering more unusual possibilities, as an inquisitive mind is a learning mind. But make sure you have the necessary stuff nailed before you get too much in the fringes.
Sometimes, playing the "what if" game can get to be counterproductive as the imagined scenarios are so far from likely that they can seem a bit silly. It's good to be thinking and considering more unusual possibilities, as an inquisitive mind is a learning mind. But make sure you have the necessary stuff nailed before you get too much in the fringes.
Re: Jammed yoke
If the elevator is jammed, my thinking is the trim would be too small to affect any changes. If, say, the control cables are broken and the elevator is free, the trim would be a feasible way to control pitch.I didn't find another one like this, maybe jammed yoke in pitch, but you can use the trim opposite way if your elevator is jammed, can you?
However, I have yet to read an accident or incident report about control seizures that could've been prevented with a good walk around. Check full travel in both directions before you go. Your most likely sources of grief are forgetting control locks in, or stuff getting tangled with the controls in the cockpit.
Re: Jammed yoke
Yes, I did. I know I have to be prepared for the high probability scenarios, but I don't feel comfortable to let uncovered some plausible, rare occurence problems which are not treated in manuals or in my PPL training. As I said, I prefer to be ready for the unexpected.5x5 wrote:Andrew, have you got all the emergency response checklists for your airplane memorized? And understand completely why each and every step is there? Those checklists are there since the situations you would be responding to are the most likely kind of emergencies you might encounter with that aircraft type.
Sometimes, playing the "what if" game can get to be counterproductive as the imagined scenarios are so far from likely that they can seem a bit silly. It's good to be thinking and considering more unusual possibilities, as an inquisitive mind is a learning mind. But make sure you have the necessary stuff nailed before you get too much in the fringes.
Not good if the trim has no effect in a jammed elevator, what about power?
Re: Jammed yoke
If it happens try it. Either it will help or it will not. No one can predict exactly how an airplane will act with flight control problems. There are just too many variables. I did read once (trying to find it for you) a basic way to deal with them. It centered around trying different things with very small inputs to see if it either helped or it didn't. Well, the first step was actually to maintain what little control you had and look for FOD.andrew172 wrote:
Not good if the trim has no effect in a jammed elevator, what about power?
Essentially try what you can with very small inputs at first. Do not try to upset the plane more (I wouldn't start deploying flaps on short final). Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, maybe it puts you into a spin and you die. There are too many variables to deal with to tell you exactly what to do.
Edit: Found this on the first google page. I didn't read it so I don't know how good it is.
Re: Jammed yoke
Thank you WJ733! You mean using a PC flight simulator, right? Which flight simulator do you recommend? I had x-plane few years ago but it wasn't really that close to match real life aircraft behaviour in a situation like that.
Re: Jammed yoke
In that case you tie a rope to your passenger and the other end to a hand strap. Then you get the pax to jump out of the plane so that he gets dragged behind the plane in the slipstream. Once he reaches the horizontal stabilizer you get him to kick the crap out of it, thereby loosening the jammed elevator. Once complete he climbs hand over hand back to the door...except on his way back the strap securing the other end of the rope breaks loose and you have to cut the rope and have your pax fall to his death to save the plane.andrew172 wrote: Not good if the trim has no effect in a jammed elevator, what about power?
At least it worked in the movie.
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Re: Jammed yoke
I heard the piper tomahawk had an issue with elevator seizure at full up travel of all times. When a student pulled back to execute a stall the yoke wouldn't release the student couldn't recover, trim is useless at this point and the plane hurtled to the ground like a meteor. The culprit was the universal joint in the control column that when pulled back and a bit of side load applied would lock up. It was a design problem and corrected in an an ad. Don't think it was anything a pilot let alone student pilot could have prepared for and I doubt there was a procedure in the ooh. So don't dismiss the op' s concern, things do happenHowever, I have yet to read an accident or incident report about control seizures that could've been prevented with a good walk around.
Edit poh not ooh, damn autocorrect...
Last edited by azimuthaviation on Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jammed yoke
FlyGy wrote:In that case you tie a rope to your passenger and the other end to a hand strap. Then you get the pax to jump out of the plane so that he gets dragged behind the plane in the slipstream. Once he reaches the horizontal stabilizer you get him to kick the crap out of it, thereby loosening the jammed elevator. Once complete he climbs hand over hand back to the door...except on his way back the strap securing the other end of the rope breaks loose and you have to cut the rope and have your pax fall to his death to save the plane.andrew172 wrote: Not good if the trim has no effect in a jammed elevator, what about power?
At least it worked in the movie.
Always keep a pair of pliers on board. If the yoke jams, find the control cables u need and cut them. Grab on the end and manipulate the control surfaces directly, bypassing the yoke. Most flight schools wouldn't be keen on you chopping up their control cables so in order to practice buy a marionette and play with that an hour a day. It might one day save your life.
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Re: Jammed yoke
I know of several occasions, that due to poor maintenance,
light single Cessnas have experienced complete yoke failures.
A bolt falls out - something like that. No aileron, no elevator.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it. Check the SDR's.
That is an emergency I give to experienced pilots who have
no problem with a PFL. You can fly the aircraft with power,
trim and rudders, but it takes some practice. The flare won't
be pretty at first.
I have had an elevator jam in a Pitts in a vertical downline. It
has happened twice to a friend of mine - mind you, he has 9,000
hrs just in Pitts. This is fairly common occurrence due to junk
in the tail, which stays there under gentleman positive G aerobatics.
But when someone like me does a push - an outside loop,
or outside snap - stuff floats up and jams the elevator push/pull
tube elbow.
In my case, it was a BNC T-connector. Not sure why it was in
the tail. My buddy had keys the first time, a 10/32-1/2 machine
screw the second time.
When it jammed up on me, I flew it out with trim, just like it
says to in the S-2B POH. Landing was a bit tricky, because I
couldn't draw the stick back.
No less a God than Sean Tucker had his elevator push-pull
tube fail in his Pitts - elevator was loose and flopping - and
he chose to jump out, rather than to risk a landing. That
makes the 3rd Pitts he's jumped out of, that I know of.
Flight control failure is NOT something that you want to
ignore. Remember Sioux City, IOWA, and the DHL A300
that was hit over Iraq with a surface to air missile, with
the help of a French reporter, I might add.
I am a nasty person. When someone masters the control
column failure mode in a Cessna - no ailerons, no elevator -
the next thing I "fail" on him is the rudder pedals. Most
people at that point think it's time to die, but actually you
can steer a Cessna quite nicely by yawing it by opening
the doors.
Yes, you can actually fly (and land) a Cessna with only
the throttle, trim and doors. You probably won't be able
to do that trick later in your career when you fly an Airbus
or Boeing, but the point is to think and figure out
a way to live.
Reminds me of the Alaska jackscrew. They tried, all
the way to the ground. They fought the good fight.
My hat is off to those gentlemen.
And who can forget the B737 rudder reversal? Some
pilots could hack it, and they lived, and some didn't,
and they died.
light single Cessnas have experienced complete yoke failures.
A bolt falls out - something like that. No aileron, no elevator.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it. Check the SDR's.
That is an emergency I give to experienced pilots who have
no problem with a PFL. You can fly the aircraft with power,
trim and rudders, but it takes some practice. The flare won't
be pretty at first.
I have had an elevator jam in a Pitts in a vertical downline. It
has happened twice to a friend of mine - mind you, he has 9,000
hrs just in Pitts. This is fairly common occurrence due to junk
in the tail, which stays there under gentleman positive G aerobatics.
But when someone like me does a push - an outside loop,
or outside snap - stuff floats up and jams the elevator push/pull
tube elbow.
In my case, it was a BNC T-connector. Not sure why it was in
the tail. My buddy had keys the first time, a 10/32-1/2 machine
screw the second time.
When it jammed up on me, I flew it out with trim, just like it
says to in the S-2B POH. Landing was a bit tricky, because I
couldn't draw the stick back.
No less a God than Sean Tucker had his elevator push-pull
tube fail in his Pitts - elevator was loose and flopping - and
he chose to jump out, rather than to risk a landing. That
makes the 3rd Pitts he's jumped out of, that I know of.
Flight control failure is NOT something that you want to
ignore. Remember Sioux City, IOWA, and the DHL A300
that was hit over Iraq with a surface to air missile, with
the help of a French reporter, I might add.
I am a nasty person. When someone masters the control
column failure mode in a Cessna - no ailerons, no elevator -
the next thing I "fail" on him is the rudder pedals. Most
people at that point think it's time to die, but actually you
can steer a Cessna quite nicely by yawing it by opening
the doors.
Yes, you can actually fly (and land) a Cessna with only
the throttle, trim and doors. You probably won't be able
to do that trick later in your career when you fly an Airbus
or Boeing, but the point is to think and figure out
a way to live.
Reminds me of the Alaska jackscrew. They tried, all
the way to the ground. They fought the good fight.
My hat is off to those gentlemen.
And who can forget the B737 rudder reversal? Some
pilots could hack it, and they lived, and some didn't,
and they died.
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Re: Jammed yoke
trey kule wrote:Well, on first blush I am dissapointed, as from the thread title I was hoping to find a solution to the continuing problem I have with removing the strawberry jam from the yoke.
Strawberry... Only one man would do this to me...
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Re: Jammed yoke
How about the Cessna 150 in Southern ON...it was in Kingston I think. I also remember reading it in something like an aviation circular from TC. Ended up being the Instructors radio cord wrapped around their yoke, without them noticing, giving limited elevator control. He worked with the power to land safely.
Re: Jammed yoke
I am really disappointed to read some of the initial comments, from experienced aviators no less, about how this student shouldn't be concerned about such things. Control malfunctions can and do happen, especially in light aircraft. There is no procedure for such events in the AFM of light aircraft. It's up to students and instructors to think about what hazards can present themselves and how they might deal with such a scenario.
There have been some examples listed above, but the one that immediately comes to my mind is the C-152 spin accident west of Montreal out of Les Cedres airport in 1998. The instructor and student were practicing spins when the rudder became jammed due to a problem with the rudder stop. Sadly the they did not recover and crashed into a lake. The student evacuated but the instructor did not make it. After the investigation an AD was issued with respect to the rudder stops.
Although my example isn't a yoke problem, it shows that just because something isn't in the book doesn't mean it can't happen, nor does it mean it won't happen. Of course the emergencies in the book are more likely to occur and pilots must know these procedures, but never would I tell a student they shouldn't worry about such things.
Anyway, I used to demonstrate to students how to deal with a jammed yoke, and a combination of power and rudder does a pretty good job at getting you back. If it's a pitch problem though I wouldn't be touching the flaps.
There have been some examples listed above, but the one that immediately comes to my mind is the C-152 spin accident west of Montreal out of Les Cedres airport in 1998. The instructor and student were practicing spins when the rudder became jammed due to a problem with the rudder stop. Sadly the they did not recover and crashed into a lake. The student evacuated but the instructor did not make it. After the investigation an AD was issued with respect to the rudder stops.
Although my example isn't a yoke problem, it shows that just because something isn't in the book doesn't mean it can't happen, nor does it mean it won't happen. Of course the emergencies in the book are more likely to occur and pilots must know these procedures, but never would I tell a student they shouldn't worry about such things.
Anyway, I used to demonstrate to students how to deal with a jammed yoke, and a combination of power and rudder does a pretty good job at getting you back. If it's a pitch problem though I wouldn't be touching the flaps.
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Re: Jammed yoke
KK7
The original poster is a 10 hr PPL. He should be concentrating on building the foundation flying skills not obsessing about the 00.1 % percent emergencies.
If my PPL student asked this question this is what I would say:
A jammed control is an extremely rare occurrence and therefore it is important that before you worry about this kind of event you learn and understand how to deal with the much more common emergencies which I will be covering during the PPL course.
Your question is not a silly one however and we are already indirectly mitigating this risk in other ways.
The first is understanding what we are looking for in the preflight inspection so we are more likely to identify a problem which could lead to a control jam before we even takeoff. Remember last week when I pointed out the aircraft we were about to fly had just come out of a 100 hour inspection? You recall we spent extra time looking for tools left behind, loose carpet that could foul the controls, missing panels etc etc. This is an example of managing the increased risk that will inevitably exist when substantial maintenance work is done and helps mitigate not only the risk of jammed controls, but other things that could present an inflight problem
The second way we mitigate this risk is by having a complete understanding of the effects of the aircraft controls and so in the event of a jammed control we would use this knowledge to maximize the chance of retaining enough control to still fly the aircraft, so for instance, using roll yaw coupling to roll an aircraft with jammed ailerons. So while we are not going to specifically cover the jammed control scenario you will nevertheless have the kinds of skills which can be used to deal with this emergency and other low probability events by the end of the PPL.
Oh and while we are talking emergencies tell me what you are going to do if we are cruising out to the practice area on our next flight and the engine suddenly starts to run rough........
The original poster is a 10 hr PPL. He should be concentrating on building the foundation flying skills not obsessing about the 00.1 % percent emergencies.
If my PPL student asked this question this is what I would say:
A jammed control is an extremely rare occurrence and therefore it is important that before you worry about this kind of event you learn and understand how to deal with the much more common emergencies which I will be covering during the PPL course.
Your question is not a silly one however and we are already indirectly mitigating this risk in other ways.
The first is understanding what we are looking for in the preflight inspection so we are more likely to identify a problem which could lead to a control jam before we even takeoff. Remember last week when I pointed out the aircraft we were about to fly had just come out of a 100 hour inspection? You recall we spent extra time looking for tools left behind, loose carpet that could foul the controls, missing panels etc etc. This is an example of managing the increased risk that will inevitably exist when substantial maintenance work is done and helps mitigate not only the risk of jammed controls, but other things that could present an inflight problem
The second way we mitigate this risk is by having a complete understanding of the effects of the aircraft controls and so in the event of a jammed control we would use this knowledge to maximize the chance of retaining enough control to still fly the aircraft, so for instance, using roll yaw coupling to roll an aircraft with jammed ailerons. So while we are not going to specifically cover the jammed control scenario you will nevertheless have the kinds of skills which can be used to deal with this emergency and other low probability events by the end of the PPL.
Oh and while we are talking emergencies tell me what you are going to do if we are cruising out to the practice area on our next flight and the engine suddenly starts to run rough........
Re: Jammed yoke
Well put...The original poster is a 10 hr PPL. He should be concentrating on building the foundation flying skills not obsessing about the 00.1 % percent emergencies.
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Re: Jammed yoke
This what happens when you have a non aerobatic trained instructors teaching an aerobatic manoever. It works OK until something goes wrong. While a very serious emergency, the airplane can be recovered from a spin even with the rudder stuck hard over and I have done it in a C 150 Aerobat.KK7 wrote:
There have been some examples listed above, but the one that immediately comes to my mind is the C-152 spin accident west of Montreal out of Les Cedres airport in 1998. The instructor and student were practicing spins when the rudder became jammed due to a problem with the rudder stop. Sadly the they did not recover and crashed into a lake. The student evacuated but the instructor did not make it. After the investigation an AD was issued with respect to the rudder stops.
.
Re: Jammed yoke
Just curious, but how did you manage to get it out, was it a fully developed spin and how much altitude did it take?Big Pistons Forever wrote:the airplane can be recovered from a spin even with the rudder stuck hard over and I have done it in a C 150 Aerobat.
Re: Jammed yoke
Colonel Sanders wrote:I know of several occasions, that due to poor maintenance,
light single Cessnas have experienced complete yoke failures.
A bolt falls out - something like that. No aileron, no elevator.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it. Check the SDR's.
That is an emergency I give to experienced pilots who have
no problem with a PFL. You can fly the aircraft with power,
trim and rudders, but it takes some practice. The flare won't
be pretty at first.
column failure mode in a Cessna - no ailerons, no elevator -
Yes, you can actually fly (and land) a Cessna with only
the throttle, trim and doors. You probably won't be able
to do that trick later in your career when you fly an Airbus
or Boeing, but the point is to think and figure out
a way to live.
It happened to my friend...twice...He picked up his C-172M from the shop after an annual. On the way home, which was 110 nm from the shop, the yoke came free, with no ailerons, or elevator. he was alone in the plane, and almost panicked. After a while, he realized that the plane was still flying. Slowly, he got his cool back, and started to experiment with the pedals and the throttle. He realized that he would not die, but could attemp at landing the plane. So he gently turned back, and landed at the field he had taken off from, to get it fixed.
They fixed the plane, and he got back home, and told us about his freightening experience. He told us he felt the hair on his head go straight up, from the fright. The AME apologized, but gave him nothing in form of a rebate for a poor job done.
The following week, on his way to Montreal, the same thing happened. He got so upset that he called an emergency, so that AME would be caught...
It appears that sometimes the two tubes of the control column are not fixed properly, and the locking bolt is inserted at the end of the tube, rather than through the two holes. The tubes then slowly slip out of each other, during flight.
After his ordeal, I practised a few times, and the last time at night, flying hands off, except for the throttle, and landed without problems...
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Re: Jammed yoke
Why didn't he just use the yoke on the right side ?Expat wrote:
It happened to my friend...twice...He picked up his C-172M from the shop after an annual. On the way home, which was 110 nm from the shop, the yoke came free, with no ailerons, or elevator. he was alone in the plane, and almost panicked. After a while, he realized that the plane was still flying. Slowly, he got his cool back, and started to experiment with the pedals and the throttle. He realized that he would not die, but could attemp at landing the plane. So he gently turned back, and landed at the field he had taken off from, to get it fixed.
They fixed the plane, and he got back home, and told us about his freightening experience. He told us he felt the hair on his head go straight up, from the fright. The AME apologized, but gave him nothing in form of a rebate for a poor job done.
The following week, on his way to Montreal, the same thing happened. He got so upset that he called an emergency, so that AME would be caught...
It appears that sometimes the two tubes of the control column are not fixed properly, and the locking bolt is inserted at the end of the tube, rather than through the two holes. The tubes then slowly slip out of each other, during flight.
After his ordeal, I practised a few times, and the last time at night, flying hands off, except for the throttle, and landed without problems...
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Re: Jammed yoke
There is a well known pilot whos brand new extra suffered a broken joystick at the point it pivots.
He rolled up his aluminum kneebord and jammed it in the tube.
Guess the adrenalin gives you superstrength.
He rolled up his aluminum kneebord and jammed it in the tube.
Guess the adrenalin gives you superstrength.
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Re:
There have been plenty of instances where one control wheel broke and or became disconnected but I have personally never heard of a situation where both controls. wheels were disconnected. I do not have a maintenance manual in front of me but thinking of how the system is connected I don't follow the description of the incident.Beefitarian wrote:I was thinking that. I'm glad you asked. My guess is it disconnected somewhere after they joined so both were disconnected.Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Why didn't he just use the yoke on the right side ?
But I have to say I am now very intrigued. Perhaps I Fly For Pie or Sept Repair or other AME could give their thoughts on how this could happen in a typical Cessna or Piper installation.
In any case the controls were not jammed, just disconnected and thus aerodynamically faired. While this is a pretty serious emergency it is still a lot better deal than a jammed control.