Pilots should take the initiative in achieving their career

[slowstream]

I came across this article this morning on Likedin and couldn't believe what I was reading and that it was even published!

I was filled with so many thoughts and emotions, anger and shock being the biggest. Its not new but it is new that this was published and promoted a good route for ones career.

This industry has taken yet a further decline in the downward spiral





Pilots should take the initiative in achieving their career goals

2012 08 22

For some time now aviation industry experts have been observing a continuous development of the global airline fleet leading to the increasing demand for pilots thus naturally expending the shortage of skilful pilots even more. However, one of the ways of improving the situation is assisting already licensed pilots with getting the required experience which would grant them the access to the commercial airline job market. Unfortunately, since providing flight experience for the upcoming generation of commercial pilots implies extra expenses for aircraft operators, not every carrier is willing to provide such assistance in overcoming the global pilot shortage issue. But there are other practices for the pilots to acquire the required experience and enter the market, including so-called ‘Pay-to-Fly’ schemes, which is a reasonable solution with regard to the matter.

‘There are various solutions aimed at helping younger pilots to acquire additional flight experience. However, in order to provide a pilot the aforementioned, airlines are ought to ensure specific conditions for the training, which include Type Instructors, Safety pilots and other special requirements. Naturally, all of these imply additional 5-digit expenses. And this is a topical issue in the pilot community around the world, since there is no consensus on who should pay for it. Senior pilots remain rather sceptical about investing personal funds in getting the first multi engine jet hours as they are confident that it is airlines’ concern to provide pilots with the necessary experience. Furthermore, they are concerned with the threat of the over-commercialized industry. The scepticism of the senior pilot generation might also be driven by the fact that the investing personal funds in one’s career helps young pilots to gain the experience required by potential employers faster thus promoting the unwanted competition,’ commented the CEO of AviationCV.com Skaiste Knyzaite.

Of course, the majority of pilots would prefer if the airlines provided them with the required experience at their own expense. However, in Europe many airlines are currently suffering from financial problems whilst some of them are even on the doorstep of bankruptcy. For that reason, currently airlines are rather sceptical about investing in unskilful pilots. As a result, the situation urges pilots to consider investing into their carriers themselves.

At this point, some pilots may be reluctant to invest in the desired flight hours from their own funds. Despite the scepticism of some pilots, the aforementioned solution is actually an opportunity for the younger generation to obtain the experience and become professional pilots, as well as to gain access to the commercial airline job market. But while some self-sponsored pilots are taking out extra loans, this may not seem to be the best solution for others as they might not have the possibility of taking any additional financial burden, or are just waiting for the situation in the airline industry to improve.

‘The fear of paying for multi-engine hours might be entirely unfounded as not every ‘Pay-to-Fly’ scheme implies the necessity of paying for the additional training on your own. For instance, such independent pilot-assisting agencies as AviationCV.com offer customized solutions, which provide pilots with the required flight experience, as well as with firm contracts with a commercial airline. Initially all of the financial issues are being handled by the agency, and the pilot receives the opportunity to postpone the payments, conducting them only while already working for commercial airlines. It is a commonly-spread practice to invest in one’s future and qualification, whether you are a pilot or an engineer. That is why pilots shouldn’t deprive themselves of any opportunities to become real professionals,’ commented Skaiste Knyzaite.

[Diadem]

So, to summarize, airlines are running short on pilots, and thus pilots should be paying the airlines for the privilege of working for them. Does the author have any comprehension of how supply and demand works, or, for that matter, that this line of reasoning makes no sense at all?

[slowstream]

So, to summarize, airlines are running short on pilots, and thus pilots should be paying the airlines for the privilege of working for them. Does the author have any comprehension of how supply and demand works, or, for that matter, that this line of reasoning makes no sense at all?

But thats the mentality thats surfacing out in Europe and Aisa and you know what happens other see it say " hey they're doing it and its working for them, so lets give it a try" and the spiral continues

Scary shit coming to this industry

[iflyforpie]

So, to summarize, airlines are running short on pilots, and thus pilots should be paying the airlines for the privilege of working for them. Does the author have any comprehension of how supply and demand works, or, for that matter, that this line of reasoning makes no sense at all?

No. The airlines are running short on experienced pilots or pilots they are willing to invest in for training, but they know there is a bottomless supply of eager youngsters with shiny jet syndrome who will fork over a ton of cash for their dream job.

In North America, unions, regulations, and ethics has thus far prevented the buy-a-job issue from progressing much beyond bottom-feeder 703 ops.

But if it were allowed or possible, I'm pretty sure that TFW would quickly become a non-issue in Canadian carriers.

[aerie]

This is nothing more than an ad for AviationCV.com, I wouldn't analyze it any further than that.

It's pretty easy to get featured on LinkedIn: http://help.linkedin.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5011

[hangar3]

You should write an article called "Journalists should take the initiative in achieving their career goals," wherein you comment how since media is relying more on live feeds and updates through FB/Twitter/whatnot, and with newspapers becoming obsolete and going bankrupt, journalists should take initiative and pay their employers for the advertisement and knowledge they gain through this precious development opportunity.

I mean of course, the majority of journalists would prefer if the news agencies provided them with the required experience at their own expense. However, in the World many news agencies are currently suffering from financial problems whilst some of them are even on the doorstep of bankruptcy (true story actually).

Despite the scepticism of some journalists, the aforementioned solution is actually an opportunity for the younger generation to obtain the experience and become professional journalists, as well as to gain access to the news market.

[Panama Jack]

Sorry, but these articles are published by a TRTO (Type Rating Training Organization) and they quote their own CEO. I have read Knyzaite's drivel numerous times to the point where I have such low regard, almost contempt, for her.

Consider it nothing more than an "Infomercial" for one of the less reputable Eastern-European TRTO out there.

[Meatservo]

Ignoring for a moment the content, just from a grammatical standpoint that has to be one of the most poorly-written pieces I have ever read. What a complete waste of time to even try to read it. I would be able to re-write the entire thing in about four sentences. It almost seems to have been written by the same Chinese guy who writes the instructions that come with cheap furniture from the far east.

The content itself? Holy crap. I'm travelling by train and ship from now on.

[slowstream]

Yes, its not difficult to realize who wrote it, where it came from and what their motive is; to me thats not really the point or what bothers me.
Infomercial aside

Given that its making the rounds I would expect that manage types read that type of crap also. I also expect that management of these companies like CV are out peddling their methods and crap to various airlines. With the limited thinking power of some of the airline exec's which has also been demonstrated and now being practised in much of Europe and now in Asia ideas like this can spread very quickly. I've seen two airlines out here in SE Asia running ad's looking for crews, when a person applies or writes about the job they are then directed to obtain the type rating and 500 hours of experience with the airlines training department/school and yes people are falling for this.

I have no idea how to shut down these kind of practises and operations. Hopefully these ideas and policies never make it across the pond, but I fully expect that some idiot some where will think that this is a good idea to increase the bottom line and increase greed.

I just thought that my fellow Canadian pilots should be aware and watchful of trends happening over here that can start to appear in North America

[Panama Jack]

As I said, when I read anything written by or associated Skaiste Knyzaite, the integrity score goes out the window for me.

As slowstream mentions, these trends are not uncommon in Europe. Air Baltic FO's get in like this on a time-building scheme; after the first 500 hours on type there may or may not be a job waiting for them.

The options for aspirants are limited, of course. Most European countries lack a significant general aviation scene or an air taxi environment for low-timers to cut their teeth. Some head to Africa, but even there, Africa can absorb only so many low-time European pilots and it is not for everyone.

We often question the morality of these type of buy your type rating schemes here on AvCanada, however, is it really that much less ethical than what we do here in Canada as far as what we expect of our newbies? Lets not confuse "it has always been done that way" with it being right or the best way to do things.

[slowstream]

Panama Jack,

Some really good points. It can also become a rather large grey area with different trends and or arguments overlapping.

Not having much of a General Aviation market such as in some areas of Europe and Asia for beginning pilots certainly does effect how they will cut their teeth so to speak.

I replied on that article in which I hoped that some newbies would read and consider, regardless of where they are on our beautiful blue planet.

That is,

By going out flying the SE birds, the floats, the ski's, the turbo props, doing 5 to 10 legs in a 14 hour day in all sorts of crap weather and scaring themselves a few times they will learn a tremendous amount. Doing this they will know their limits, weather limits, aircraft limits which newbies often confuse with government mandated limits and the two sometimes don't agree. I've been there, flying along and looking at my partner and thinking about things and realizing that if something happens I am alone in there. If something happened this person would be beyond their limits and would in all likelihood just simply shut down. There is so much to be learned by this method that paying for a rating and experience does not give a person the opportunity to learn. This paying for experience in my opinion is doing these young pilots and the industry a injustice ........ in my humble opinion.

[Panama Jack]

I totally agree with you, slowstream. While I was on my first jobs, the objective was steadfastly to get onto something with at least two turbojet engines. Sitting on one now, I do look back with some nostalgia on my previous, more humble(ing) experiences in and outside of Canada and what they taught me. I consider myself extremely lucky in my career progression.

Unfortunately, for Europeans, the question is where?

- They are not welcome in Canada, the USA, or Latin America unless they have citizenship or some other permanent residency.
- Africa can only absorb so much.
- The Middle East wants people who have, as a minimum, 500 hours time on type on the glass-cockpit Airbus or Boeing which is in their fleet, plus other prerequisits.
- Ditto for India and most of the Far East.
- Indonesia hires expats on the cheap, but isn't necessarily the place to go for a good, solid foundation in your career.
- China is limited to Captains.

I have a very good friend who is fortunate enough to have both a European and Canadian passport. After growing up in Ontario and cutting her teeth in the North of Canada for a number of different carriers, she was fortunate to end up on the right seat on an A320 at one of the large European flag carriers and presently sits right seat on the B777 until the 787's come. Her husband is a rotary wing guy from the military (so he doesn't have a lot of flight time either), looking at transitioning to the civilian world of flying. It is an absolutely daunting preposition, with the limited opportunties, his limited rotary wing (and even less fixed-wing) time, plus the high expenses of getting his civilian paperwork in order in EASA-land. Having a young-child limits flexibility even more as far as not being able to pack a duffle-bag for an African adventure.

Little wonder then that the Skaitske-schemes look like an attractive, and more imporantly, a realistic option for getting a flying position. Even having time and type rating on an A320 or 737NG in Europe doesn't necessarily guarantee a bright future.

[bmc]

So instead of paying for my daughter's masters degree at a prestigious university in Paris, I should have told to get a paying job somewhere and demand that they pay for her higher education and living expenses?

Boy, did I ever screw up.

[LousyFisherman]

So instead of paying for my daughter's masters degree at a prestigious university in Paris, I should have told to get a paying job somewhere and demand that they pay for her higher education and living expenses?

No offence, but why couldn't she pay for it herself?

LF

[bmc]

So instead of paying for my daughter's masters degree at a prestigious university in Paris, I should have told to get a paying job somewhere and demand that they pay for her higher education and living expenses?

No offence, but why couldn't she pay for it herself?

LF

Too expensive. Heavy work load. Nine courses per semester. And, I didn't want either of our gurls graduating with any debt.

My point was not the expense. It was to draw the parallel that some people express outrage when the suggestion comes along that they have to pay to upgrade their skills, when those outside of aviation expect to reach in their pockets.

[Diadem]

Too expensive. Heavy work load. Nine courses per semester. And, I didn't want either of our gurls graduating with any debt.

My point was not the expense. It was to draw the parallel that some people express outrage when the suggestion comes along that they have to pay to upgrade their skills, when those outside of aviation expect to reach in their pockets.

The difference is that the university exists to provide education, whereas airlines are not primarily post-secondary institutes; they require the pilots to operate the aircraft so the airline can make a profit. The pilots are providing a service to the airline which permits the airline to make revenue, and as such they should be receiving compensation, not the inverse. A better parallel would be if the university hired a professor who already had his/her Ph.D, and required the professor to pay the school for the privilege of working there and gaining experience. Then, if there were an opening at the end of the semester, maybe the professor could move into a job that pays minimum wage, but that probably wouldn't happen if there was another candidate who was willing to pay.

[2.5milefinal]

Paying for the privileged of working at a company is BS.
No matter which way you slice a piece of crap its still crap.

[Beefitarian]

..... Unless it's NASA I'd totally pay to fly the shuttle...

Not really my opinion but, know what I'm sayin'? In this industry there are guys ready to bend over and hang on to a chair just to be able to fly certain planes.

[Meatservo]

Wow. I had a couple of beers when I got home from work and started reading this. At first I was inclined to think BMC was being a shit-disturber, or even a jerk(!) but then I got to thinking.

I worked on the dock after I got my bare-bones CPL (with float rating of course) until someone decided I was competent,

then I flew a 180 until someone decided I had "enough time" to fly the mighty 185.
Then I flew the 185 until someone decided I had "enough time" to fly a Beaver
Then I flew the beaver until someone decided I had "enough time" to fly an Otter'
Then I flew the Otter until someone decided I had "enough time" to fly a Twin Otter.
Then I flew the Twin Otter until someone decided I had "enough time....blah, blah, blah.

I have a pretty good job now. I paid for it in the way I outlined above and it was pretty f^%$g hard work.

I suppose if you're too fuckin lazy to get ahead that way, you can use money to buy airliner time. Lazy suckers.

Like Butters says on South Park, "everybody pays for kisses".

I pay, you pay, some people like the easy way out. Let 'em pay. So what if they're losers.

[LousyFisherman]

..... And, I didn't want either of our gurls graduating with any debt.
.

I hear you, I'm just crueller, I paid out once she finished

My point was not the expense. It was to draw the parallel that some people express outrage when the suggestion comes along that they have to pay to upgrade their skills, when those outside of aviation expect to reach in their pockets..

I agree, as an amateur I have to pay to fly anything
If I win the lottery I will get to fly a jet and a helicopter

You have to pay for training in every occupation, why is aviation so different?
Do you pay for a 50 hour bush course? Or do you do buy 50 hours flying on a road trip?
Do you work on the dock? Or not?
Do you buy 20 night hours of C150 time to get your ATPL? Or not?
Do you buy the rating and get the job? Or not?

Why is the last so offensive?

Granted there are some unique practices in aviation that I find quite objectionable and that I would not consent to, however, who am I to judge if others find those conditions acceptable? Easy to say since I have no intention of ever earning my CPL.

YMMV
LF

[tired of the ground]

Do you buy the rating and get the job? Or not?

Why is the last so offensive?
LF

It's offensive for one simple reason. A type rating is not education in the sense of lifelong self betterment. A type rating is simply learning about a specific companies operation. Type rating training is not universal education the way a licence or IFR is. Knowing the emergency procedures of an A319 will not help you fly a 737; The licence and IFR will help and that's why it's OK and beneficial to come out of your pocket.

Paying for a type rating is not going to bankrupt an airline. If they actually wanted to make money they would stop all the BS shell companies that get all the money while the airline cries bankruptcy and needs wage cuts. Have you ever heard of a leasing company going bankrupt? Guess who owns the leasing company. I'll put money on the fact that, that person is on the board of directors at said bankrupt airline.

[ajet32]

My daughter just graduated with two degrees and I made sure she is debt free to start the rest of her life. I was brought up to believe if you have children you should prepare them for life after they leave the family home. She chose a career that has nothing to do with aviation;smart girl.
If she had chosen aviation I would have seriously considered steering her onto a career track program to avoid all the useless supposed character building BS that comes with working the ramp and slinging someones bags.
Why you ask, well some of the career track FO's I have flown with in SE Asia are more knowledgable and in many ways better pilots of that large single aisle aircraft than the folks coming from the bush or commuters here in North America. They don't have all the bad habits and bitterness they are just happy to be flying. They expect to spend 10-15 years in the right seat learning to be a Captain. Some will advance quicker but not many.
The pay to fly candidates at several SE Asian carriers come from areas where there is next to no general aviation so it is get hired as a cadet by your national carrier or pay the price to get to the right seat.
The cost to get to that point may be somewhat greater than outright university education in Canada, however in many other countries the US in particular the university education would be just as expensive.
I suppose the down side is that in this ever growing and expanding world economy many folks from here don't like the idea and will in some ways be at a disadvantage if the time comes that the jobs are in asia and you require that type rating and 500 hours to get through the door.
The economy and growth in aviation appears to be stagnant here in North America and worse in Europe. Growth in asia is incredible with some carriers taking new Boeings ,Airbus and Bombardier aircraft 1 or 2 a month and some even more, Indonesia for example needs up to 800 pilots per year to accommodate the growth. At best they can produce 300 from the existing schools. That would be 300 brand new CPL/IFR pilots with a type going into the right seat of a Boeing ,Airbus ,ATR or something similar. There are no commuters with fleets of B1900 or Metros.
Just my thoughts on a Saturday morning, not saying I have the answer.

[Diadem]

Do you buy the rating and get the job? Or not?

Why is the last so offensive?

It's not the purchase of the type rating that I find so offensive about this practice, it's paying the company to work for them. The airline is making revenue from the flights which the pilot is flying, and on top of that not only is it not paying the pilot, but it's drawing revenue from him/her. Paying employees is the price of doing business in any industry, and if you can't afford to do that you're probably going to fail anyway. If you're then demanding that your employees pay you for the privilege of helping you make a profit, then you're an extortionist.

[Meatservo]

That's it exactly. If you're already qualified to operate the equipment, and the airline is legally making use of you to operate said equipment, then that means you've already got all the education you can pay for to get that job. Now you're working. That's not education; it's work.

[Expat]

As was said above, university graduates often end up with debt burdens higher than type ratings. We in Canada are blessed with the oportunity to work for small operators, and get paid for the hours. There are not many countries that offer such an environment. Especially in Asia, only people who can afford it take to a pilot career. The same as a career in the medical field, or others. Nothing comes free.
As an exemple, to become a rich successful banker, you have to go through 6 years of very expensive university.
A career that will eventually provide a salary of 250K will not come without sacrifices, or investment. It may have in the past, but in today's world, it is unlikely.
I live in an expat world, where money is not a problem, and what strikes me most, is that the people who succeed have put either the money or the effort at the right time in their careers.