Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
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- Beefitarian
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Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
Ok so I buy a Cherokee 6 to rent to people. What do I need to do?
-Register it commercially.
-Buy fancy insurance.
-Hire instructor for check rides.
-??????
-Register it commercially.
-Buy fancy insurance.
-Hire instructor for check rides.
-??????
Last edited by Beefitarian on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
You don't need commercial registry to simply rent the aircraft as far as I know.
Insurance can be what you want.... even including BYOI (COPA or other basic liability) but with a bank loan and/or trusting people with your own aircraft hull is necessary/a very good idea.
No instructor required for check rides unless specified by the insurance company. My insurance lets me hop into anything I am rated for.
??????? This would work better most likely as a partnership or club rather than a rental. Renting by the hour is not likely to make fixed costs when charging any reasonable rate, plus the renters don't really have a vested in the aircraft and will treat it accordingly.
Rentals are usually a break-even venture at best with flight schools so they can say to their students that they can rent their aircraft after plonking down ten large on a PPL.
With a club or partnership, members put up their share of the fixed costs (insurance, hangar/parking, annual maintenance) and then pay the direct costs for each hour they fly (fuel, oil, maintenance reserve/contingency fund, engine reserve) so that no matter how many hours they fly, there is enough cash to take care of the aircraft.
An aircraft like a Cherokee Six will have limited use for most people as well. Go drive down the Deerfoot and see how many Suburbans and Hummers have more than one person in them; same goes for aircraft. Not everyone is going to want to haul around 6 seats at 13-15GPH just in case they might need them once.
Insurance can be what you want.... even including BYOI (COPA or other basic liability) but with a bank loan and/or trusting people with your own aircraft hull is necessary/a very good idea.
No instructor required for check rides unless specified by the insurance company. My insurance lets me hop into anything I am rated for.
??????? This would work better most likely as a partnership or club rather than a rental. Renting by the hour is not likely to make fixed costs when charging any reasonable rate, plus the renters don't really have a vested in the aircraft and will treat it accordingly.
Rentals are usually a break-even venture at best with flight schools so they can say to their students that they can rent their aircraft after plonking down ten large on a PPL.
With a club or partnership, members put up their share of the fixed costs (insurance, hangar/parking, annual maintenance) and then pay the direct costs for each hour they fly (fuel, oil, maintenance reserve/contingency fund, engine reserve) so that no matter how many hours they fly, there is enough cash to take care of the aircraft.
An aircraft like a Cherokee Six will have limited use for most people as well. Go drive down the Deerfoot and see how many Suburbans and Hummers have more than one person in them; same goes for aircraft. Not everyone is going to want to haul around 6 seats at 13-15GPH just in case they might need them once.
- Beefitarian
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Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
You ferry it here, I'll do the work. Or I'll ferry it at shop rate for my total travel time plus expenses.
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
Having been to this movie myself once when a C150 that I had bought as a time builder and then put on the flight line at a local school for the same purpose came back to me unexpectedly three months into my lease agreement (and after not having flown one revenue hour)... I think you want to assess the revenue generating potential along side the pain in the ass factor.
I hangared my bird in a private hangar 35min drive from my house. When I got renters wanting to use it, I had to drive out and give them the keys (or leave them under the pilots seat), then let them take it before driving back out to put it back in the hangar at the end of the day. The guy I was sharing hangar space with was a friend and asked me not to give the general public unrestricted access to the hangar.
Two 70min round trips generally got me 2hrs of rental revenue at $50/hr dry - or $100. I spent about 20% of that on gas and i needed to sock away $15 for airframe and engine reserve and a few beans for insurance and hangar expenses - my time wasn't worth that much.
If you are serious about this - live ultra close to the airport so you can allow your renters access or else pay one of the local FBOs to handle dolling out the keys or figure out some honor system that you can live with - otherwise its a logistical nightmare.
How about doing as others have suggested and finding a group of like minded partners to share your investment with?
I am going on four years with an awesome partner. We might be gassing our Mooney 231 and possibly re-partnering on the Twin Comanche I just bought.
I hangared my bird in a private hangar 35min drive from my house. When I got renters wanting to use it, I had to drive out and give them the keys (or leave them under the pilots seat), then let them take it before driving back out to put it back in the hangar at the end of the day. The guy I was sharing hangar space with was a friend and asked me not to give the general public unrestricted access to the hangar.
Two 70min round trips generally got me 2hrs of rental revenue at $50/hr dry - or $100. I spent about 20% of that on gas and i needed to sock away $15 for airframe and engine reserve and a few beans for insurance and hangar expenses - my time wasn't worth that much.
If you are serious about this - live ultra close to the airport so you can allow your renters access or else pay one of the local FBOs to handle dolling out the keys or figure out some honor system that you can live with - otherwise its a logistical nightmare.
How about doing as others have suggested and finding a group of like minded partners to share your investment with?
I am going on four years with an awesome partner. We might be gassing our Mooney 231 and possibly re-partnering on the Twin Comanche I just bought.
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
I have a "get out of jail free" email from Transport Canada in my archives to this effect. There are no restrictions on private rental of privately registered aircraft to licensed pilots. Its all what your insurance can live with.iflyforpie wrote:You don't need commercial registry to simply rent the aircraft as far as I know.
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
I have a "get out of jail free" email from Transport Canada in my archives to this effect. There are no restrictions on private rental of privately registered aircraft to licensed pilots. Its all what your insurance can live with.iflyforpie wrote:You don't need commercial registry to simply rent the aircraft as far as I know.
- Beefitarian
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Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
Well, I suspect 5 of the people wanting to rent my 6 are spread around the world and the one in Calgary is broke.
I wonder if people would pay the landing fee to fly out of YYC?
I wonder if people would pay the landing fee to fly out of YYC?
Was it privately registered when that happened?JAHinYYC wrote:then put on the flight line at a local school for the same purpose came back to me unexpectedly three months into my lease agreement (and after not having flown one revenue hour)... I think you want to assess the revenue generating potential along side the pain in the ass factor.
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Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
I would guess that there actually is a market for such an aircraft, the chief problem would be the logistics of the operation. Most of the people who want the use of a Cherokee Six would be weekend renters with a mind to haul the family. What that means is the users of the plane would be booking it for weekends where the aircraft might be doing a fair bit of sitting. Good and bad. I would probably suggest such a thing be available for a dry daily rate, with an additional charge if a certain amount of hours per day is put on it. One thing I would do would be to keep a record of weight and balances and encourage the use of a scale that goes with it, too many might assume they can just fill the seats and go, which might not always be the case. It would be too bothersome to have the thing hangared, just tie it down and take deposits for keys. If there's winter use of the thing, then renters are required to do any de icing and pre heating themselves. Now that's a lot of rental rules which I'm sure everyone here would bitch and moan about, but screw them, its your plane.
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I would have no problem suggesting, if the rules seem too restrictive, feel free to rent one of the other six seat airplanes.
I also have excellent news for 4 people. There is already a DA-40 for rent.
http://www.calgaryflight.com/Fleet.php?action=da40
I also have excellent news for 4 people. There is already a DA-40 for rent.
http://www.calgaryflight.com/Fleet.php?action=da40
Re:
New G1000 Pilot "Why is it doing that?"Beefitarian wrote:I would have no problem suggesting, if the rules seem too restrictive, feel free to rent one of the other six seat airplanes.
I also have excellent news for 4 people. There is already a DA-40 for rent.
http://www.calgaryflight.com/Fleet.php?action=da40
Experienced G1000 Pilot "Why is it doing that again?"
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
I have been involved with a couple Rental/Block Time arrangements. There are a lot of rules (especially for winter usage), but they are there to protect the owner and the users. Nothing that you wouldn't adhere to if it were your own plane. I agree that a cherokee 6 would be going further and out for weekends as compared to a 150. Other things to think about is what will happen if it breaks down 1000 miles away? Who's responsibility is it to get it fixed and home? This is the question that usually kills most Block time deals.
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Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
I took a Calgary Flying Club's Warrior II on a very long trip. I don't know if they didn't believe it would be so long or just did not check but I ended up getting close to a 50hour inspection. So close that I could not have finished the trip. I was paying attention to the places that seemed to have good service, and noted I had met an AME that seemed nice. I phoned the Club told them what was up and asked if I should see about him doing the inspection. Paid for it and got reimbursed after the trip.
The plane has to get home. I guess this might need to be considered when trying to build a maintenance fund.
The plane has to get home. I guess this might need to be considered when trying to build a maintenance fund.
I live a long walk from the airport but that means the renters having to be able to handle the cost and potential hassles involved with operating out of they one. The benefits being several fairly nice spots to pick up passengers.JAHinYYC wrote: If you are serious about this - live ultra close to the airport so you can allow your renters access ...
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
One little gottcha you must look out for is that you have to rent to a licensed pilot. You cannot rent to a non pilot who will then hire someone to fly the airplane. That is considered a commercial charter without proper certification. Also, with an airplane with considerable capacity, it may invite the "chisel charter" types who have "discovered" a way to have others "share the cost". Just a maybe.
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
No, it was commercially registered when it went to the school because it needed to be so to go on the school's OC. When I took it back and re-registered it I elected to do so as Private.Beefitarian wrote:Was it privately registered when that happened?JAHinYYC wrote:then put on the flight line at a local school for the same purpose came back to me unexpectedly three months into my lease agreement (and after not having flown one revenue hour)... I think you want to assess the revenue generating potential along side the pain in the ass factor.
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I know this is not possible but play along... Lets say my venture here is not fantastic and out of reach for mere mortals. Therefore I make a small profit running it as a business and add a nice variety to the fleet.
I need the commercial registration. Attractive dispatchers. Complementary debrief beverages in a nice board room.
What else?
I need the commercial registration. Attractive dispatchers. Complementary debrief beverages in a nice board room.
What else?
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
I'd like a fairly involved checklist for your C150 please. Too many things to forget for this dumb driver.Beefitarian wrote: What else?
BTW how many GPH does the Hummer burn??
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
Maintenance on a commercially-registered aircraft has to be done by an AMO - an AME on his/her own won't cut it.took a Calgary Flying Club's Warrior II on a very long trip. I don't know if they didn't believe it would be so long or just did not check but I ended up getting close to a 50hour inspection. So close that I could not have finished the trip. I was paying attention to the places that seemed to have good service, and noted I had met an AME that seemed nice. I phoned the Club told them what was up and asked if I should see about him doing the inspection. Paid for it and got reimbursed after the trip.
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I have not been arrested,* I presume his credentials were good.
AME down there stood for different words than here. What do you think about that? Airframe, something beginning with "M" and Engines.
*yet.
By the way. This has been put on hold. I just spent a bunch of the investment money on a KICK ASS remote control racing buggy! I wonder if that Cherokee 6 is still for sale? ~shrugs~
AME down there stood for different words than here. What do you think about that? Airframe, something beginning with "M" and Engines.
*yet.
By the way. This has been put on hold. I just spent a bunch of the investment money on a KICK ASS remote control racing buggy! I wonder if that Cherokee 6 is still for sale? ~shrugs~
Re:
AME spelt "A&P/IA" ? D-)Beefitarian wrote:I have not been arrested,* I presume his credentials were good.
AME down there stood for different words than here. What do you think about that? Airframe, something beginning with "M" and Engines.
Re: Beef's aircraft rental outlet.
I need the commercial registration. Attractive dispatchers. Complementary debrief beverages in a nice board room.
By the way. This has been put on hold.
WHAT?!?!?
You mean I can't be your debriefer now...
AWH, that so sucks man...
All I wanted to be was paid debriefer.

By the way. This has been put on hold.
WHAT?!?!?
You mean I can't be your debriefer now...
AWH, that so sucks man...
All I wanted to be was paid debriefer.



- Beefitarian
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Obviously I would staff the place with young pilots that would pay me for the opportunity to get into aviation and buy their own white shirts.
Possibly. I asked, "Can you do a 50 hour inspection?" The flight instructor said, "What's that?" We told him. Then the guy had to check to see if he could. Then he did it. Anyways, been nice talking about maintenance rules from 20 years ago. See you later.photofly wrote:AME spelt "A&P/IA" ? D-)
I don't know. There might be a charge for returning it without a full tank.comfail wrote:I'd like a fairly involved checklist for your C150 please. Too many things to forget for this dumb driver.Beefitarian wrote: What else?
BTW how many GPH does the Hummer burn??