Question about crosswind landing

[leo_ding]

Hi there.. I have a tendency always landing left of the center line,I know when the airplane Flare,we should use right rudder to offset the yaw

I always have a illusion,when I was flare the airplane nose and my eye was in one line so that makes me though that I've already in the center line,but actually I was not.

when the nose little bit right of my eye the airplane actually it's in the prefect postion but I was thinking the nose it's getting turn right so I push the left rudder.

would you please guys give me some advise to fix that problem,just one more quick question,when use side slip in the finial approach,does it always put contral into the wind,and push the opposite rudder?

thanks

[DanWEC]

Have your instructor do a Low and Over along a nice long runway, dead on the centerline with a minimal crosswind, at 5 ft high, and observe exactly how it looks while it's all lined up. I just did it for a student last week who was having the same problem. Helped 100%.

If a strong crosswind is unavoidable when you do it, then you can also taxi slowly down the centerline as well, similar effect.

Hey here's a question, why do you want to see the low and over demonstration without much crosswind? How would taxiing it instead be different?)

Sorry, I have to cut this short but how a sideslip keeps you aligned during a crosswind is well outlined in the purple book. (FTM)

[Chuck Ellsworth]

leo_ding you need to find a competent instructor to fix your problem.

Asking the question here will only confuse you with all the different answers you will get.

[leo_ding]

Have your instructor do a Low and Over along a nice long runway, dead straight with ZERO crosswind, at 5 ft high, and observe exactly how it looks while it's all lined up. I just did it for a student last week who was having the same problem. Helped 100%.

If a crosswind is unavoidable when you do it, then you can also taxi slowly down the centerline as well, similar effect.

Hey here's a question, why do you want to see the low and over demonstration without a crosswind? How would taxiing it instead be different?)

Sorry, I have to cut this short but how a sideslip keeps you aligned during a crosswind is well outlined in the purple book. (FTM)

I did couple times low and over along the runway,but never like 5 ft that low.. I would try it next time.

I think the Answer is to get used to the view to align the center line,

and the different I think it would be the angel different to see the ling,it's little bit different to see it on the ground between in the air.

and while I am taxing ,I always Align the center line just right of my body, when I was flare ,I can't see that ling as my reference any more.. so I kindly pick the nose as my reference.. and I kindly think I should align the nose and my eye.. I think Maybe that's way I always used the wrong rudder and alwasy left of the center ling.

[leo_ding]

leo_ding you need to find a competent instructor to fix your problem.

Asking the question here will only confuse you with all the different answers you will get.

Thanks:) I will tell my Instructors I have this kind of problem

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Thanks:) I will tell my Instructors I have this kind of problem

If you are learning to fly at a school your instructors should be able to teach you the basics...if not you are wasting a lot of money.

If you do not care about money and want to get rid of it you can find a more deserving place than a flight school and instructors that will not or can not teach you the basics.

[photofly]

when the nose little bit right of my eye the airplane actually it's in the prefect postion but I was thinking the nose it's getting turn right so I push the left rudder.

Put a dot of coloured tape on the edge of the instrument glare shield, or at the base of the windshield, directly in front of your nose. Observe how it lines up with the end of the runway during the takeoff roll, and try to recreate that same alignment during landing. After a while, you don't need the dot any more.

[leo_ding]

when the nose little bit right of my eye the airplane actually it's in the prefect postion but I was thinking the nose it's getting turn right so I push the left rudder.

Put a dot of coloured tape on the edge of the instrument glare shield, or at the base of the windshield, directly in front of your nose. Observe how it lines up with the end of the runway during the takeoff roll, and try to recreate that same alignment during landing. After a while, you don't need the dot any more.

that's a very good idea I would try that thanks:)

[photofly]

when the nose little bit right of my eye the airplane actually it's in the prefect postion but I was thinking the nose it's getting turn right so I push the left rudder.

Put a dot of coloured tape on the edge of the instrument glare shield, or at the base of the windshield, directly in front of your nose. Observe how it lines up with the end of the runway during the takeoff roll, and try to recreate that same alignment during landing. After a while, you don't need the dot any more.

that's a very good idea I would try that thanks:)

Some aircraft have a helpfully-sited rivet or mark on the engine cowl; but to my mind something more obvious works better.

[Guilden]

Check your PM Leo.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

I don't want to complicate things but it looks like Leo is getting some good help, so I gotta ask.

Nowhere in my PPL training was I ever told to anticipate adding right rudder during the flare. Nothing would surprise me at this point but I have to know if this is an example of training deficiency or is adding right rudder in the flare really not a thing ?

I am assuming that the additional right rudder would be to offset the p-factor, but with an offset vertical stabilizer and the crosswinds moving around and changing speed, should you really be anticipating the need for right rudder ?

[photofly]

Typically you'd have the power at idle, so most of the effects should be pretty small. Compare the need for right rudder during a late go-around.

[gaamin]

Hi there.. I have a tendency always landing left of the center line,I know when the airplane Flare,we should use right rudder to offset the yaw

I always have a illusion,when I was flare the airplane nose and my eye was in one line so that makes me though that I've already in the center line,but actually I was not.

when the nose little bit right of my eye the airplane actually it's in the prefect postion but I was thinking the nose it's getting turn right so I push the left rudder.

would you please guys give me some advise to fix that problem,just one more quick question,when use side slip in the finial approach,does it always put contral into the wind,and push the opposite rudder?

thanks

Stay aligned with the (extended) centerline using ailerons.
Keep the aicraft pointing in the right direction (ie parallel to the runway so that when you touch down you don't get jerked aside) using rudders.
Coordinate your inputs so that the nose remains that "straight" throughout.

Odd question about the sideslip on final. How much practice have you had?

When you are flying at altitude, how do you know you are coordinated? Where do you look? How do you feel (physically) in your seat? When taxiing, where do you look?

While the piece of advice about using a visual cue on the aircraft to push yourself to keep it straight can be valid, it could also be that there are other underlying problems, and that this situation is only one of the symptoms. So back to .'s advice : a competent instructor should be able to assess and help fix the problem(s).

I suspect CS will like this one : doing it in a taildragger will help you be very attentive to what "straight" is for a specific aircraft, as it will be less forgiving of alignment errors when in contact with the ground.

Cheers,

JBL

[Chuck Ellsworth]

While the piece of advice about using a visual cue on the aircraft to push yourself to keep it straight can be valid, it could also be that there are other underlying problems, and that this situation is only one of the symptoms. So back to .'s advice : a competent instructor should be able to assess and help fix the problem(s).

There is no one size fits all simple fix for situational awareness with regard to position and alignment on a runway.

Putting a dot in the windshield will only work for one airplane with the seat in one position, inability to judge the position and alignment of an airplane during the landing phase of flight is caused by the inability of the pilot to fit the position of the airplane into the picture the pilot is seeing...

......to learn what to look for and where to look requires one on one instruction.....from a teacher who understands how to teach it.

[xysn]

Disclaimer - I am not a flight instructor, but I did have / still have similar problems.

I always have a illusion,when I was flare the airplane nose and my eye was in one line so that makes me though that I've already in the center line,but actually I was not.

when the nose little bit right of my eye the airplane actually it's in the prefect postion but I was thinking the nose it's getting turn right so I push the left rudder.

It sounds like you answered your own question. Don't line up the tip of the spinner / nose with the centreline, use a reference point on the cowl and put tip of the spinner to the right of the centreline a bit.

would you please guys give me some advise to fix that problem,just one more quick question,when use side slip in the finial approach,does it always put contral into the wind,and push the opposite rudder?

thanks

Those are the general movements, but obviously it depends on the amount of crosswind. You fly with enough pressure on the controls to get the picture you want. Sometimes a tiny bit of aileron / rudder is enough, sometimes you need a lot.

And also remember that the airplane takes time to react to control inputs, it's not instant like a car.

Nor can you simply "set" the controls a certain way, winds shift as you get closer to the ground, so there may be constant adjustment of the control inputs.

[Alberta_Canada]

I was landing to the left all the time for a while too. I figured I was sort of conditioned to visualize ending up there from driving a car (you don't drive on the centerline in a car, right?). What I found helpful was to always make sure you look as far down the runway as you can. (will help judge the flare better too). When I look down to the end of the runway, it prevents me from being fixated too close to the plane where I am prone to drifting around. Rather than look to a point close to the plane and worry about instantaneous corrections, I look further down the runway and my corrections are much smoother as I am worrying more about overall correction....it becomes a lot less twitchy. It also helps me get a better feeling of when I am coming in parallel. I'm not sure how to explain it but it feels like I also have more time to deal with the roll out as well, so I don't feel rushed and can focus on controlling the A/C better. Focusing at the end of the runway made all the difference for me.

[Masters Off]

One thing I noticed mentioned; that somewhere in the above posts, someone was landing slightly to the left of centerline.

Whatever single engine you're flying, you're really not needing to compensate to the left for the size of aircraft. You are that close to center that you can land directly on the lines. Same with taxiing. Taxi straight on top of the lines, you really are lining up the center of the aircraft, no compensation needed.

[pelmet]

Hi there.. I have a tendency always landing left of the center line,I know when the airplane Flare,we should use right rudder to offset the yaw

would you please guys give me some advise to fix that problem

This may be bad advice...but why don't you try aiming for slightly right of the centreline and see how that works out for you. Eventually, you will figure out something and maybe after doing this for a while, that sight picture will become normal and you will no longer feel like you are aiming for landing right of the centreline.

Try it on a wide runway first though.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Like I said in my first post.

leo_ding you need to find a competent instructor to fix your problem.

Asking the question here will only confuse you with all the different answers you will get.

[trey kule]

I am not sure you guys are going to like mythoughts on this..this is not a problem just for those learning to fly. I used to see it all the time with CPL pilots after about 100 hours on type they suddenly could not land on the centerline, and co incidently always to the left. Even in twins.
The solution to this was to tell them to start taking control of the airplane again. You fly the thing right until the final stop before the engine is shut down..Not to just a few feet above the runway.

If you have never been able to land on the centerline, that is a different issue. But if you were and now suddenly are not, you start by having a chat with yourself. Control the airplane .Fly it right to touchdown and beyond. If that sounds simplistic try it..It will work.
As . has tried to point out, trying to determine the casue here is a bit of a challange, and until your recognize the cause you will not find a solution. This or that rudder.depends alot on the crosswind...Do what you have to do to keep that longitudinal axis paralel and on the centerline.

Now specificially for a crosswind landing if you are just learning..Get the aircraft set up on the extended centerline. drop the up wind wing down to stop right or left drift, and use the rudder to keep the plane pointing straight down the runway. And then gently and perfectly fly it on.
Crosswinds are not a big deal really. Some of the advice here about right rudder ignores completely the power adjustments you are going to make, or maybe not make, the pitch up, and most importantly the direction and strength of the crosswind. X wind from the right. Decently strong and you dont want to be pushing right rudder into it at landing...

So, to belabor the point.. Get it pointed straight down the runway and hold it there using whatever rudder is necessary. Adjust the bank angle to compensate for lateral drift. Adjust as necessary as the wind might change as you start getting closer to the runway. In small aircraft this trying to crab until about one foot off the runway and then kick the rudder and keep the wings level is , in my opinion, not the greatest technique. You are not typically flying a plane that necisitates that technique. Get it set up far enough back so you only need small bank or rudder corrections to keep everything as it should be.

We had a special way of dealing with line pilots to correct this problem, but it does not apply here.

Lastly, and again with small planes..remember the ailerons.. You gotta keep the up wind wing down, so dont forget that on your rollout your ailerons should be properly positioned...read full deflection at the end. Get in the habit when you are taxiing of alway positioning the ailerons correctly.

Dont believe all the blarney about x winds.. They are not difficult to land in as a rule..Strong,Gusty ones definitely make it challanging, but you will do better to practice yourself than have your instructor fly you as a pax down the runway. If your instructor really needs to put their meathooks on the controls, have them do a crosswind landing and explain it as they go through it. In my opinion a good instructor can quietly sit there and help you through one or two, and then just let you practice with the occassional comment.

Remember. Have a chat with yourself about remembering to fly the plane..not let it fly you.

[white_knuckle_flyer]

I am not sure you guys are going to like mythoughts on this..this is not a problem just for those learning to fly. I used to see it all the time with CPL pilots after about 100 hours on type they suddenly could not land on the centerline, and co incidently always to the left.

The solution to this was to tell them to start taking control of the airplane again. You fly the thing right until the final stop before the engine is shut down..Not to just a few feet above the runway.

This might be a good time for me to sneak a question in here.

Let's say, a few feet from the ground you find that you have drifted left of the centerline but you are still nice and straight down the runway. Which of the following answers is most correct :

A) attempt to make the correction to gain back the centerline even though it may result in landing with yaw
B) since you are just left of the centerline continue with the landing and bring yourself back to centre on the rollout
C) this question isn't relevant because it is ALWAYS possible to avoid being in this situation if you have done everything right

[AuxBatOn]

It depends. Am I stable? Am I rapidly moving left?

[trey kule]

First of all, to answer your question...we are talking about small aircraft here as it is the flight training forum. Some larger aircraft that have a bit of a problem with dropping a wing are designed to be landed with a bit of yaw.

So, back to the small aircraft..The absolute key is to have the plane going and pointing down the runway...absolute..touch down a small plane with yaw or drift and you will have a problem (which I suppose, is why so many find the conventional gear to have landing issues).
AuxBatt asked the right questions..You have to ask them a second or two ahead, but generally if the runway is wide enough, and you are nicely going straight down it, I would tend to just land, roll out until I am slower , and then, and only then, get back on the centerline..In a crosswind you dont want to touch down and then try to immediately swing onto the centerline when you are still moving fast.
You also never want to touch down a small plane with yaw, so trying to salvage a bad position right at the end is not usually a great option.

Interesting, that in the choices offered, you never considered a go around as an option. Might want to ask yourself why not..Lots of damaged airplanes from pilots never considering that option and determined to plant it on regardless if they are positioned correctly.
Sometimes we have to tell our brain that when things are not going right, it is time to go around.
Anyway, (c) is the correct answer if you find yourself in that position often. I know your question was an honest one, but alot of the problem with the whole question is pilots are looking to excuse their sloppy flying.

This is not recipe flying despite what some would have you believe. The guiding principles are to touch down with no drift or yaw.(..and on the centerline of the runway) Do what you have to do to make that happen..If you cant do that, consider a go around and try again...And dont try to salvage a bad situation by forcing the plane onto the ground unless there are absolutely no other options. Dont make excuses.. Learn to do it right every time....yes...every time...

[photofly]

Let's say, a few feet from the ground you find that you have drifted left of the centerline but you are still nice and straight down the runway. Which of the following answers is most correct :

A) attempt to make the correction to gain back the centerline even though it may result in landing with yaw
B) since you are just left of the centerline continue with the landing and bring yourself back to centre on the rollout
C) this question isn't relevant because it is ALWAYS possible to avoid being in this situation if you have done everything right

If it's a wide runway continue with the landing. I wouldn't fuss about steering back to the centreline at speed, right after touchdown.

If its a narrow runway, go around and do it again, better.

Avoid landing with yaw, or with the wheels not parallel with the ground track.

Sometime I think we worry about technique at the expense of judgement.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Avoid landing with yaw.

Is it O.K. to land with sideways drift?