Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister

Post Reply
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Hot day, max gross, no wind, 1950 foot strip:

Image

Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
gwengler
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:58 am

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by gwengler »

N720JF

Strip may be only 1100 ft long. Six people on board reported, no fatalities. Too bad for the airplane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Heliian
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by Heliian »

Local press says all 6 americans on board O.K., plane crashed on "takeoff"

I wonder what the DA for that day was, with the high humidity and temps, no wind, short strip, not one but many causal factors.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by Colonel Sanders »

---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4151
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by CpnCrunch »

gwengler wrote:N720JF

Strip may be only 1100 ft long. Six people on board reported, no fatalities. Too bad for the airplane.
Takeoff ground roll (ft.): 1087
Not really much of a safety margin, and that's in standard ISA conditions. I thought the guy at Courtenay was pushing it a bit far by trying to land his 310 on an 1800 ft runway in the wet, but this guy wins the prize for trying to be a hero.
---------- ADS -----------
 
CFR
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 784
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:51 pm
Location: CYAV

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by CFR »

The strip is listed as 1100 x 50. The ground roll chart for a PA46R-350T shows that you can achieve a 1000 foot takeoff with 20 degrees of flap at 0C with no headwind or up to 50C with a 25 knot headwind. 30C and no headwind requires 1250-ish feet (you know how easy to read Piper charts are; especially with older eyes, thick pencil and a photocopied table). To get the 1000 at 30C you need around an 12 kt headwind. My read of the chart (been a while since I used a Piper chart) would lead me to minimize load and leave early morning before it reaches 20C and even then you need a 8 kt headwind to get off in 1000!

At least they didn't seem to have to worry about a 50 foot obstacle!

UPDATE - Just had a look at the weather report for Cat Kay and the temp varies only a few degrees all day from 28 to 31. At 28C you need a 12 kt headwind and the predictions are for around 3 to 7 knots all day.

Am I mis-reading the chart or should the conclusion be that this is not a summer destination for a Malibu?
---------- ADS -----------
 
westcoastwonder
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by westcoastwonder »

There is the outside possibility 1 or more of the 6 people were above std weight or had a bit of a heavy bag
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by Colonel Sanders »

With 2 people, light baggage and light fuel
it probably would have worked!
---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4151
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by CpnCrunch »

CFR wrote:
UPDATE - Just had a look at the weather report for Cat Kay and the temp varies only a few degrees all day from 28 to 31. At 28C you need a 12 kt headwind and the predictions are for around 3 to 7 knots all day.
Those numbers assume your engine is delivering the same power as when it left the factory. Also, the wind 5ft above the runway will be significantly lower than that shown on the METAR, due to friction (although at this airport that might not be a factor, due to surrounding water):

http://www.belfortinstrument.com/blog/p ... ove-ground

Adding a 50% margin to the numbers is probably a good idea unless you really know what you're doing (neither of which appear to be the case here). Or just don't load the plane up to max gross with your rich buddies :)
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Shiny Side Up
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Group W bench

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by Shiny Side Up »

CpnCrunch wrote: I thought the guy at Courtenay was pushing it a bit far by trying to land his 310 on an 1800 ft runway in the wet, but this guy wins the prize for trying to be a hero.
I don't think this year's frontrunner in that competition will be beat, but it seems people are busy out there making some good attempts.

In the first pictures, is it being lifted out of the water when those are taken or is it stuck in the sand that way?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by Colonel Sanders »

That's where the valet left it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Boreas
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:06 pm
Location: The haunted corners of familiar rooms

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by Boreas »

How do you shock-cool an engine without taking off?
---------- ADS -----------
 
pelmet
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7718
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by pelmet »

Colonel Sanders wrote:With 2 people, light baggage and light fuel
it probably would have worked!
Reminds me of an American guy in a Malibu many years back with full pax and bags trying the same thing in of all places Cobden. Hot, no wind....lots of people died.
---------- ADS -----------
 
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8133
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Winterfell...

Re: Malibu at Cat Cay, Bahamas 25 Aug 2013

Post by iflyforpie »

I guess that's what they mean by Maliboom Boom.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”